GT3 prices going up

[franki68]

TDT said:

Not down to desirability… particularly in the UK it was because Touring Package was only available late in the production run.

There is some truth there but I got my allocation after the touring had been available for a while and when I was considering it the salesman said no one else had ordered the touring package .
They were not very popular ,, you can see by the number of winged cars vs tourings ordered once tourings were available .

[av185]

Don't conflate demand new with demand used.

Totally different scenarios.

[ChrisW.]

In the UK they couldn't sell the 964RS allocation ... the UK had expected to sell around 100 cars and I recall achieved just 73 ...

Now most of the RHD 964RS have been exported to the far east and in the UK they are more rare and desirable than many classics ... point taken !

[ChrisW.]

Far Cough said:

Vroom2 said:

991.2 manual Touring sold on CC

https://collectingcars.com/for-sale/2018-porsche-9...

Was there any mention of Over Revs in the ad ? I cant access it at the moment but without that info , its a risky proposition.

I think 41 ignitions in range 1 and almost 0 in range 2 ... nothing above that.

[Dr S]

PinkHouse said:

TDT said:

The premium purely the function of exclusivity / rarity of a factory born touring, particularly in the UK

They are rare because they were less desirable when they were available to order

The 1.2 Tourings were rare as the model was only launched late in the GT3 production cycle. First the winged PDK was launched, then a while later the winged manual and yet another while later the Touring package. For the 992 it was available from the beginning

[hunter 66]

ChrisW. said:

In the UK they couldn't sell the 964RS allocation ... the UK had expected to sell around 100 cars and I recall achieved just 73 ...

Now most of the RHD 964RS have been exported to the far east and in the UK they are more rare and desirable than many classics ... point taken !

A stiff car that was made for tracks .... who would want one ?

[Geneve]

franki68 said:

TDT said:

Not down to desirability… particularly in the UK it was because Touring Package was only available late in the production run.

There is some truth there but I got my allocation after the touring had been available for a while and when I was considering it the salesman said no one else had ordered the touring package .
They were not very popular ,, you can see by the number of winged cars vs tourings ordered once tourings were available .

As said, although there were rumours that there would be a 'Touring' variant of the 991.2 GT3, it was late coming to the party and arrived well into the GT3 production run. Many prospective buyers had already secured their GT3 allocations, so it's inevitable there were less 'Tourings'.

I specifically wanted one - intended for fairly regular 'road use', and as a long-term keeper (I've had 911s since the late '80s) - and mine was delivered new in late March 2018.

In terms of 'desirability', I would say the 991 'Touring' is one of the prettiest GT cars, in a similar style to the 911R. And much prettier than the 992 'Touring'.

However, I found it disappointing for 'road use' in the UK. The 991 and 992 'Tourings' - are simply GT3s without the rear spoiler. So, still a track focussed car without any real 'touring' concessions, in contrast to the original 2.7 RS M471 and M472 models.

I do think that the 'Touring' designation should have allowed more practical/comfort options - rear seats, a few other niceties, but especially a more adjustable chassis for road use - especially in the UK, where the compromises are a constant.
I think this may be why so many have low mileage but high ownership changes. The 992ST may fulfill the 'touring' role better.

[ChrisW.]

hunter 66 said:

ChrisW. said:

In the UK they couldn't sell the 964RS allocation ... the UK had expected to sell around 100 cars and I recall achieved just 73 ...

Now most of the RHD 964RS have been exported to the far east and in the UK they are more rare and desirable than many classics ... point taken !

A stiff car that was made for tracks .... who would want one ?

I couldn't afford one in the day, but I have owned and enjoyed three ... I chose the first for its functional lack of frippery, classic looks, performance and colour. A RHD ex-HK car in metallic coral red ... It spent most of its time with me on narrow country lanes and I never thought of it as being anything other than ... normal. This was followed by a LHD red car and then a Maritime N/GT with Cup front dampers which was peachy !

My background was hot hatches ... RS2000 / Clio 16v / Peugeot 205 1.9 / Escort RS Turbo / Cavalier SRi / E36M3 / plus the mandatory family wagon ...

[993rsr]

Geneve said:

franki68 said:

TDT said:

Not down to desirability… particularly in the UK it was because Touring Package was only available late in the production run.

There is some truth there but I got my allocation after the touring had been available for a while and when I was considering it the salesman said no one else had ordered the touring package .
They were not very popular ,, you can see by the number of winged cars vs tourings ordered once tourings were available .

As said, although there were rumours that there would be a 'Touring' variant of the 991.2 GT3, it was late coming to the party and arrived well into the GT3 production run. Many prospective buyers had already secured their GT3 allocations, so it's inevitable there were less 'Tourings'.

I specifically wanted one - intended for fairly regular 'road use', and as a long-term keeper (I've had 911s since the late '80s) - and mine was delivered new in late March 2018.

In terms of 'desirability', I would say the 991 'Touring' is one of the prettiest GT cars, in a similar style to the 911R. And much prettier than the 992 'Touring'.

However, I found it disappointing for 'road use' in the UK. The 991 and 992 'Tourings' - are simply GT3s without the rear spoiler. So, still a track focussed car without any real 'touring' concessions, in contrast to the original 2.7 RS M471 and M472 models.

I do think that the 'Touring' designation should have allowed more practical/comfort options - rear seats, a few other niceties, but especially a more adjustable chassis for road use - especially in the UK, where the compromises are a constant.
I think this may be why so many have low mileage but high ownership changes. The 992ST may fulfill the 'touring' role better.

I've had my 991.2 GT3 Touring since 2020 and it's now done 26k miles, I've used it a lot in the UK including trips with the dog to Skye, in the winter with suitable tyres, as well as numerous track days and long EU trips including a nearly 4k mile trip to Portugal last October. For me, it's the best 911 derivitave I've owned, IMO perfectly usable on the UK roads, and I love the fact it's pure GT3 running gear with an understated looks that go's almost un-noticed. Whether a GT3 Touring should be a softened GT3 is one view, personally I'd not want that, but by the number of owners on some of the cars it seems some would!

Edited by 993rsr on Monday 25th March 18:34

[Koln-RS]

It’s a good point though.

All Porsche did was delete the rear wing (with a few aero adjustments) and call it a Touring.

[PinkHouse]

If you want to have a proper laugh, watch this:

[Youforreal.]

Was the winged and non winged not the same rrp?

[TDT]

Youforreal. said:

Was the winged and non winged not the same rrp?

Yep it was.

Direct response to 911R investors/flippers

[johnny senna]

993rsr said:

I've had my 991.2 GT3 Touring since 2020 and it's now done 26k miles, I've used it a lot in the UK including trips with the dog to Skye, in the winter with suitable tyres, as well as numerous track days and long EU trips including a nearly 4k mile trip to Portugal last October. For me, it's the best 911 derivitave I've owned, IMO perfectly usable on the UK roads, and I love the fact it's pure GT3 running gear with an understated looks that go's almost un-noticed. Whether a GT3 Touring should be a softened GT3 is one view, personally I'd not want that, but by the number of owners on some of the cars it seems some would!

Edited by 993rsr on Monday 25th March 18:34

Just wondering if you’ve driven a 992 GT3 and if so how it compares to your 991.2 GT3? Particularly the ride quality which is meant to be pretty firm on the 992 version.

[hornbaek]

johnny senna said:

993rsr said:

I've had my 991.2 GT3 Touring since 2020 and it's now done 26k miles, I've used it a lot in the UK including trips with the dog to Skye, in the winter with suitable tyres, as well as numerous track days and long EU trips including a nearly 4k mile trip to Portugal last October. For me, it's the best 911 derivitave I've owned, IMO perfectly usable on the UK roads, and I love the fact it's pure GT3 running gear with an understated looks that go's almost un-noticed. Whether a GT3 Touring should be a softened GT3 is one view, personally I'd not want that, but by the number of owners on some of the cars it seems some would!

Edited by 993rsr on Monday 25th March 18:34

Just wondering if you’ve driven a 992 GT3 and if so how it compares to your 991.2 GT3? Particularly the ride quality which is meant to be pretty firm on the 992 version.

I have owned a GT3 991 Touring and now have a 992 GT3 Touring. They are very different cars indeed. The 992 is a much sharper tool. Its steering is completely different. Other things are the size, it is slightly wider and it is much noisier inside the cabin. You could sum it up that Porsche has gone more "track based" with the 992 GT3 series. I have done 20.000km in my Touring. It's a fabulous car but it is not ideal to long distance travelling as it is too noisy and the seats (for some) are too unforgiving. Also the fact that the 918 seats don't tilt forward limits access to the rear so you can only fill that space by stuffing bags through in between the seats. On the track it's the sharper car and the engine is more responsive but for the trip to the Continent the previous 991 generation touring was more suited. IMHO.

[Youforreal.]

TDT said:

Youforreal. said:

Was the winged and non winged not the same rrp?

Yep it was.

Direct response to 911R investors/flippers

Thanks for confirming that, when you really listen to it the clip is mostly factually incorrect and not as funny as the first time you hear it.

[993rsr]

hornbaek said:

johnny senna said:

993rsr said:

I've had my 991.2 GT3 Touring since 2020 and it's now done 26k miles, I've used it a lot in the UK including trips with the dog to Skye, in the winter with suitable tyres, as well as numerous track days and long EU trips including a nearly 4k mile trip to Portugal last October. For me, it's the best 911 derivitave I've owned, IMO perfectly usable on the UK roads, and I love the fact it's pure GT3 running gear with an understated looks that go's almost un-noticed. Whether a GT3 Touring should be a softened GT3 is one view, personally I'd not want that, but by the number of owners on some of the cars it seems some would!

Edited by 993rsr on Monday 25th March 18:34

Just wondering if you’ve driven a 992 GT3 and if so how it compares to your 991.2 GT3? Particularly the ride quality which is meant to be pretty firm on the 992 version.

I have owned a GT3 991 Touring and now have a 992 GT3 Touring. They are very different cars indeed. The 992 is a much sharper tool. Its steering is completely different. Other things are the size, it is slightly wider and it is much noisier inside the cabin. You could sum it up that Porsche has gone more "track based" with the 992 GT3 series. I have done 20.000km in my Touring. It's a fabulous car but it is not ideal to long distance travelling as it is too noisy and the seats (for some) are too unforgiving. Also the fact that the 918 seats don't tilt forward limits access to the rear so you can only fill that space by stuffing bags through in between the seats. On the track it's the sharper car and the engine is more responsive but for the trip to the Continent the previous 991 generation touring was more suited. IMHO.

@johnnysenna - yes, for an hour or so on smooth mountain roads in France. Didn't notice any significant deterioration in ride (was in the CGT so no back to back comparison) steering felt more reactive, seemed like they'd turned the wick up on the EPAS as well as DW front suspension (well it's not truly DW front suspension with bottom coffin arms - pedant mode )

I don't feel they are very different cars 991 vs 992, more evolution than revolution as is the norm. with Porsche. Sure the front axle is improved on the 992, but it's not night and day, regardless of what journalists would have you believe. If I was looking for a Touring (mine is LHD which I wanted and bought it pre Brexit from Germany) I'd go 992 RHD as there is more choice, and IMO the bigger price delta for the 991 makes no sense just to lose the wing.

[ChrisW.]

And the 992 has a slightly smaller "frunk" ... I think by about 7 litres.

[993rsr]

ChrisW. said:

And the 992 has a slightly smaller "frunk" ... I think by about 7 litres.

My LHD 991 Touring has a reduced 'frunk' with the 90l tank, but the tank size is more use for me.

[johnny senna]

993rsr said:

@johnnysenna - yes, for an hour or so on smooth mountain roads in France. Didn't notice any significant deterioration in ride (was in the CGT so no back to back comparison) steering felt more reactive, seemed like they'd turned the wick up on the EPAS as well as DW front suspension (well it's not truly DW front suspension with bottom coffin arms - pedant mode )

I don't feel they are very different cars 991 vs 992, more evolution than revolution as is the norm. with Porsche. Sure the front axle is improved on the 992, but it's not night and day, regardless of what journalists would have you believe. If I was looking for a Touring (mine is LHD which I wanted and bought it pre Brexit from Germany) I'd go 992 RHD as there is more choice, and IMO the bigger price delta for the 991 makes no sense just to lose the wing.

Thanks. V interesting.
The price delta between wing and no wing for the 991 variant is pretty massive I agree. I’d like a 992 Touring but I use my 992 C2S daily and I think a 992 GT3 Touring used daily might get a bit wearing.