The 997 - General Discussion Thread

[Bluesgirl]

Quick update on the work I've had done recently on my 997.1S.

I ended up getting the exhaust repaired (thanks for the suggestion Steve1968) at Redhill Classics who were v helpful and managed to get it done quickly. Paul at PCW doesn't do supply and fit on exhausts, he just does the hack, so he couldn't help me.)

I also had 2 new fans fitted and a control module, so that's all good now.

One question I have though is regarding the suspension components... the last MOT advises that the front lower suspension arm pins are worn but not resulting in excessive movement - coffin arms. Tbh this doesn't mean a lot to me, but my garage tells me that the bolts are seized and will be nightmare to get out as part of the coffin arms are aluminium and could be damaged or cause damage to the subframe. He's lost me at this point - is this a common problem? I imagine it must be, at some point all of these components are going to need replacing - how is it done without causing damage? I'm also wondering if some damage has already been caused by him trying to do it - how would I know? Any advice on next steps very welcome.

[ATM]

Bluesgirl said:

is this a common problem?

Yes

All the nuts and bolts under your Porsche are made of cheese. Maybe not cheese but you get the idea. They rust away to nothing and seize up. Exhaust manifold also known for this problem. Us 996 owners - that's Me - shiver at the thought of doing any work underneath because we know that all bolts and nuts and fastenings of any kind will be a problem if they have been on the car since new - or a while. Exhaust manifold studs have to be drilled out of the engine. Yes someone drilling into the engine while it is in the car. Shivering yet?

Bluesgirl said:

how is it done without causing damage?

Damage to what? They have to be cut off / drilled / heated up - whatever works.. Easiest way to do this is remove the whole assembly complete from the car rather than just the arm. Added an image below - added some more - all from my 981 [some are from the rear end] but exactly the same part used on all their sports cars - front and back.

You can just see the coffin shaped thing on the far left pointing away from you - in pic 1. Called Coffin because it is slightly fatter in the middle and therefore shaped like a coffin. It has a bolt on one end attached to the car. Normally this is easy enough to remove / cut / snap etc but this is a specific Porsche bolt with a weird shaped circular thing on one end which is used to dial in the adjustment to make the wheel point straight. I will try to add some more pics. You can just about see this in pic 2.

The other end has a ball joint. This only has a nut and it is hard to get to. Remove the nut and then you have to press / push / separate the ball joint out of the hub. I've seen some people suggest a blow torch to heat it up helps - but obviously you dont want to do this if it is all still on the car.

The parts you want to keep are chunky sold metal items. Mostly cast aluminium for lighter weight. It is very very hard to damage these unless you are an idiot or very very ham-fisted.

Bluesgirl said:

I'm also wondering if some damage has already been caused by him trying to do it - how would I know?

If you want to complain that a mechanic has rounded a nut or caused some damage to a fastening because it is old and rusted up or seized then good luck to you. But you wouldn't be very popular at parties.

Bluesgirl said:

Any advice on next steps very welcome.

If you are not tackling this yourself then you need someone who knows what they are doing. Any competent mechanic can tackle this. It is just nuts and bolts. No secret voodoo. I would have a go myself. But I am a PH God - obviously.....

[Bluesgirl]

Thank you both for your comments, it's really helpful, and the pics too.

I'll have to get it done sooner or later, but maybe I'll wait until the next MOT and see whether they've deteriorated much.

Thanks guys.

[Matt_E46]

I don’t know whether to laugh or cry so I’m posting here instead.

Just paid the best part of £500 for a PPI on a 997.1 - car looked mint…

…Bore score on cylinders 5&6
…Misfire
…DME in Rev ranges 4 & 5 in last 20 hours

For reference it was a 3.6 Carrera 2

Edited by Matt_E46 on Thursday 17th August 15:24

[Terry Winks]

The problem is these days its so easy to roll an absolute turd in glitter (detailing) that you really have to look hard and know what you're looking at to weed out the rotters. £500 seems a lot for a PPI though, I have done a few and they have always been sub £300. Luckily the cars I have looked at have never been that far away from Ray North, and he's always suggested starting with a Borescope before bothering with inspecting the rest. He's saved me from 2 cars now, and whilst it bites, and engine rebuild would bite more.

[Bluesgirl]

That’s depressing.

How about looking for a car where the work needed (engine rebuild etc) could be factored into the price? There’s a 3.6 on AT at £12k where the seller has listed items that need attention. That could be a solution - at least getting it done yourself means you know exactly what you’re dealing with. It’d be a project rather than a done deal, tho’. Depends if you’re up for that.

[ATM]

I'd by a car already rebuilt properly. Most of these cars always sell for less than their rebuild costs. You never recoup your money doing stuff like this. And most of the cars I've seen saying requires attention seem to price them assuming the rebuild will only cost 4 or 5k and we all know that will cut corners. I'd want to buy a car at the higher end which has been lavished by the PO. This way all the other bits and pieces should be in order also. A full project of a car would get very expensive very quickly.

[RemarkLima]

Yep, when the cars are old a small job can use a lot of parts!

I've just swapped the silencers, with some Top Gear valvetronic ones, but ended up needing new clamps, new bolts and sleeves for the brackets. I also needed new tips as the old ones just wouldn't budge... So adds up to lots of parts.

The cats are next, but then will almost 100% need to get 4 new lamda sensors, and a lot of pain getting the old bolts out.

As said tho, they're great to drive, a DSC controller for the PASM system is a must.

The borescore thing I think you can be a bit more pragmatic about, yes expensive if done properly, but if you plan to keep the car for years, not a massive issue... Just put a war chest to one side and hopefully you'll not need it.

[J Chitty]

If they found bore scoring on 2 cylinders before you bought the car, I’d say that was £500 well spent!
I’d love a 997s but having had my 3.4 Cayman S crack a cylinder I’d be spending the extra for something later gen 2. Although there are rumours the DFI engine isn’t immune to scoring…

[ATM]

J Chitty said:

there are rumours the DFI engine isn’t immune to scoring…

I've heard these rumours but if they are true then it is much less likely I'd say otherwise more people would be talking about it.

[maz8062]

Slippydiff said:

ATM said:

J Chitty said:

there are rumours the DFI engine isn’t immune to scoring…

I've heard these rumours but if they are true then it is much less likely I'd say otherwise more people would be talking about it.

I'd suggest it's worth having a chat with Baz or Grant at Hartech before making any assumptions. There's nothing like getting the info straight from the horses mouth ...
Granted it's not nearly as much fun as listening to/perpetuating myths on forums as many on here like to, but rest assured, you'll get nothing but straight talk from the lads at Hartech.

I’ve actually seen a MY10 3.8S with borescoring. They do exist and the repair is catastrophic compared to the 997.1. I’m not sure that Hartech have a fix just yet, they were working on it when I last enquired earlier in the year, and a short block from Porsche is stupidly expensive. A repair would be £20k plus.

[maz8062]

Slippydiff said:

ATM said:

J Chitty said:

there are rumours the DFI engine isn’t immune to scoring…

I've heard these rumours but if they are true then it is much less likely I'd say otherwise more people would be talking about it.

I'd suggest it's worth having a chat with Baz or Grant at Hartech before making any assumptions. There's nothing like getting the info straight from the horses mouth ...
Granted it's not nearly as much fun as listening to/perpetuating myths on forums as many on here like to, but rest assured, you'll get nothing but straight talk from the lads at Hartech.

I’ve actually seen a MY10 3.8S with borescoring. They do exist and the repair is catastrophic compared to the 997.1. I’m not sure that Hartech have a fix just yet, they were working on it when I last enquired earlier in the year, and a short block from Porsche is stupidly expensive. A repair would be £20k plus.

[Discombobulate]

As a big 997.1 fan - I think it is one of the highlights of Porsche's last 40 years - I am sorry to say that I would not buy a 997.1 unless it had undergone a full rebuild by Hartech. Or budget to do one.
A clear borescope just means the car is OK now. 5000 miles later and you could be in trouble. It has happened to us twice in 70K miles in 2 different 997s.
First had a new engine at 7500 miles and 12 months old (it was going when I bought it nearly new from an OPC but I missed the signs) and the second was picked up during a pre-emptive rebuild at 65k (early scoring in 5 and 6).

It's now a fully refreshed (everything from engine and cooling system, to suspension and air con) Hartech 4.1 and I love it. And it slips under the radar. But I am skint.

Edited by Discombobulate on Saturday 19th August 06:53

[maz8062]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Er, no! Honestly, it is mind bogglingly expensive to fix a Gen 2 S with borescoring. The main issue is that there are no companies out there that can currently fix them so as is the way for the PDK gearbox problems, the only fix is via Porsche - a short block. I can’t remember the cost of it, OPC only, but it was very expensive.

I was tempted by a mint 60k miles car with the issue and spent ages investigating a potential cure. Not a dicky bird.

[CrouchingWayne]

Noticed a couple of times when turning ignition off there’s an audible click or clack type sound coming from the instrument binnacle direction. Not identified any symptoms or issues other than the noise.

Anyone had this before? Could even be me bashing the interior trim with the key fob or something similarly banal but I thought I’d check with the PH minds in case it’s a recognised thing.

Not causing any issues so wasn’t currently planning any “fix”….

[ATM]

I've changed the ignition switch on my 996 recently. When these go bad it can cause all manner of electrical gremlins. Basically a big round thing behind the ignition barrel. It decides what gets power and what does not when the key is in the different positions. If some relays are acting up they could be making this noise and I would suspect the switch first.

Then there is the steering lock itself which was ok on mine. It locks the steering wheel in position when the key is removed. But I think it depends on the angle of the wheel. This can also go bad but it may just get noisy with age or possiblybecome loose abd maybe the noise has changed. It is more of mechanical device. Most of this stuff is shared between the 996 and 997. Then there is the barrel itself. It could be the source of your noise but it would come from the barrel obviously.

Pelican has some good articles showing pics for removal if you are interested.

[CrouchingWayne]

ATM said:

I've changed the ignition switch on my 996 recently. When these go bad it can cause all manner of electrical gremlins. Basically a big round thing behind the ignition barrel. It decides what gets power and what does not when the key is in the different positions. If some relays are acting up they could be making this noise and I would suspect the switch first.

Then there is the steering lock itself which was ok on mine. It locks the steering wheel in position when the key is removed. But I think it depends on the angle of the wheel. This can also go bad but it may just get noisy with age or possiblybecome loose abd maybe the noise has changed. It is more of mechanical device. Most of this stuff is shared between the 996 and 997. Then there is the barrel itself. It could be the source of your noise but it would come from the barrel obviously.

Pelican has some good articles showing pics for removal if you are interested.

Thanks ATM I did see your post on the ignition barrel switch but didn’t connect the dots there.

What side effects did you see from it going? If it’s a fairly straight swap I might stick it on the preventative maintenance list

[ATM]

CrouchingWayne said:

Thanks ATM I did see your post on the ignition barrel switch but didn’t connect the dots there.

What side effects did you see from it going? If it’s a fairly straight swap I might stick it on the preventative maintenance list

I couldn't lock the car and the radio stayed powered up draining the battery. Probably because some of the car still thought it was 'On'.

[FriedMarsBar]

@Daston can I ask how you got the cat bolts out? Did you remove the cats or grind/powerfile them off from the sides with the cats attached?

I need to do a couple of manifold exhaust studs but would rather do the job in stages by taking just one manifold off and sorting that manifold.

My cat/center silencer bolts have almost gone and will not undo so wondered how easy these bolts are to get out with the manifold/center silencers in place?
Cheers

[Terry Winks]

So mine is about to go off the road for the winter and into storage whilst I attempt to sort the garage out it's supposed to be living in a year after moving here. I said though I wanted to drive it standard for a while so I knew what it was like, quickly changed the exhaust as it was way too polite for a weekend car and fitted a short shifter kit, which is an excellent mod for the money.

I did say I would post some photos up of the ICE install, which I forgot to do at the time (probably still recovering from some of the traumas )

But now I know what its like standard I think I might press on with the upgrade plans, so whilst its away this winter I would like too, and just seeing whether I have all the pennies to do the following.

Cosmetic: RPM CSR Carbon Ducktail (I hear this is really the only one that fits properly without a load of fettling) and an Aerokit front and some paint in places to tidy yup.

Suspension: Ohlins Road and Track, which I understand to be the most compliant out of KW, Nitron etc which considering the bias of this car is going to be 85% road 15% track I don't want something thats too hard. I have been looking at the Spyder Performance Arms and Forks kits too which seems cracking value to refresh everything, anyone got any experience of these? And To Polybush or not to Polybush? Not all over I'd add, don't want a squeaky nightmare.

Engine:RS engine mounts, not the RRS ones as I think they're a bit too brutal, keen to hear peoples opinions on these though as they seem to split the room. Same for a lightweight flywheel, benefits seem great, but at what cost, its a weekend car, but don't want it to become too uncivilised.

That was a bit of a ramble on, just sound boarding some stuff and hoping some people weigh in.