The 997 - General Discussion Thread
Discussion
997 Turbo here.
Decent bit of work and maintenance carried out during my three year ownership so far.
Love the car, not so much the bills.
Was lucky enough to find a low mileage well cared for Gen 1.5 model with a manual box a few years ago. Hoping to pick it up tomorrow after getting new pads (GT3), coolant hoses, major service and some suspension components replaced. It will most likely be spending its time in the garage unless we get some decent weather over the next few months.
If it doesn’t manage to spend money sitting still I’d like to source some GT2/GT3 wheels for it…..the man maths are finding it hard to justify some 996/997 buckets…… although that doesn’t always stop proceedings so we’l see.
[url]
|https://thumbsnap.com/hTHTPtvn[/url]
Decent bit of work and maintenance carried out during my three year ownership so far.
Love the car, not so much the bills.
Was lucky enough to find a low mileage well cared for Gen 1.5 model with a manual box a few years ago. Hoping to pick it up tomorrow after getting new pads (GT3), coolant hoses, major service and some suspension components replaced. It will most likely be spending its time in the garage unless we get some decent weather over the next few months.
If it doesn’t manage to spend money sitting still I’d like to source some GT2/GT3 wheels for it…..the man maths are finding it hard to justify some 996/997 buckets…… although that doesn’t always stop proceedings so we’l see.
[url]|https://thumbsnap.com/hTHTPtvn[/url]Edited by Remote on Wednesday 25th October 05:20
Remote said:
997 Turbo here.
Decent bit of work and maintenance carried out during my three year ownership so far.
Love the car, not so much the bills.
Was lucky enough to find a low mileage well cared for Gen 1.5 model with a manual box a few years ago. Hoping to pick it up tomorrow after getting new pads (GT3), coolant hoses, major service and some suspension components replaced. It will most likely be spending its time in the garage unless we get some decent weather over the next few months.
If it doesn’t manage to spend money sitting still I’d like to source some GT2/GT3 wheels for it…..the man maths are finding it hard to justify some 996/997 buckets…… although that doesn’t always stop proceedings so we’l see.
What have been the major costs of your car? I'm curious what I have to look forward to :-)Decent bit of work and maintenance carried out during my three year ownership so far.
Love the car, not so much the bills.
Was lucky enough to find a low mileage well cared for Gen 1.5 model with a manual box a few years ago. Hoping to pick it up tomorrow after getting new pads (GT3), coolant hoses, major service and some suspension components replaced. It will most likely be spending its time in the garage unless we get some decent weather over the next few months.
If it doesn’t manage to spend money sitting still I’d like to source some GT2/GT3 wheels for it…..the man maths are finding it hard to justify some 996/997 buckets…… although that doesn’t always stop proceedings so we’l see.
I'm just over a year into my manual 997.1 Turbo ownership. All I've had to do is service it although I noticed one of the spoiler rams was a bit moist so I'll get those done over the winter. Oh and I did splash out on some APEX EC-7RS wheels and PS4 rubber as I've never been a fan of the standard Turbo
Terry Winks said:
So mine is about to go off the road for the winter and into storage whilst I attempt to sort the garage out it's supposed to be living in a year after moving here. I said though I wanted to drive it standard for a while so I knew what it was like, quickly changed the exhaust as it was way too polite for a weekend car and fitted a short shifter kit, which is an excellent mod for the money.
I did say I would post some photos up of the ICE install, which I forgot to do at the time (probably still recovering from some of the traumas
)
But now I know what its like standard I think I might press on with the upgrade plans, so whilst its away this winter I would like too, and just seeing whether I have all the pennies to do the following.
Cosmetic: RPM CSR Carbon Ducktail (I hear this is really the only one that fits properly without a load of fettling) and an Aerokit front and some paint in places to tidy yup.
Suspension: Ohlins Road and Track, which I understand to be the most compliant out of KW, Nitron etc which considering the bias of this car is going to be 85% road 15% track I don't want something thats too hard. I have been looking at the Spyder Performance Arms and Forks kits too which seems cracking value to refresh everything, anyone got any experience of these? And To Polybush or not to Polybush? Not all over I'd add, don't want a squeaky nightmare.
Engine:RS engine mounts, not the RRS ones as I think they're a bit too brutal, keen to hear peoples opinions on these though as they seem to split the room. Same for a lightweight flywheel, benefits seem great, but at what cost, its a weekend car, but don't want it to become too uncivilised.
That was a bit of a ramble on, just sound boarding some stuff and hoping some people weigh in.
I'm running Ohlins R+T on my 2008 Turbo. When I got the car last year it was set up for track and it was pretty much undriveable on the road. It would literally get airbourne the scrape it's belly on a bumpy road. It was running very low and I think the dampers were 6 clicks out, so almost at their stiffest. I did say I would post some photos up of the ICE install, which I forgot to do at the time (probably still recovering from some of the traumas
)But now I know what its like standard I think I might press on with the upgrade plans, so whilst its away this winter I would like too, and just seeing whether I have all the pennies to do the following.
Cosmetic: RPM CSR Carbon Ducktail (I hear this is really the only one that fits properly without a load of fettling) and an Aerokit front and some paint in places to tidy yup.
Suspension: Ohlins Road and Track, which I understand to be the most compliant out of KW, Nitron etc which considering the bias of this car is going to be 85% road 15% track I don't want something thats too hard. I have been looking at the Spyder Performance Arms and Forks kits too which seems cracking value to refresh everything, anyone got any experience of these? And To Polybush or not to Polybush? Not all over I'd add, don't want a squeaky nightmare.
Engine:RS engine mounts, not the RRS ones as I think they're a bit too brutal, keen to hear peoples opinions on these though as they seem to split the room. Same for a lightweight flywheel, benefits seem great, but at what cost, its a weekend car, but don't want it to become too uncivilised.
That was a bit of a ramble on, just sound boarding some stuff and hoping some people weigh in.
I had the car raised to maximum, which is still around 20mm lower than standard and I'm running them at 20 clicks out, so pretty much full soft. After living with it over summer, II have stiffened it up slightly to 18 front and 16 rear, but it's now very useable and tracks the road really well, improving grip level everywhere. I found myself having to manage weight transfer when they were fully soft but the Turbo is fairly heavy so I think this might be more pronounced.
It's interesting how it can be transformed from a stiff, unforgiving car into comething very comfortable with the turn of a single adjuster. Very easy to experiment and decide what works for you.
Oz83 said:
I'm running Ohlins R+T on my 2008 Turbo. When I got the car last year it was set up for track and it was pretty much undriveable on the road. It would literally get airbourne the scrape it's belly on a bumpy road. It was running very low and I think the dampers were 6 clicks out, so almost at their stiffest.
I had the car raised to maximum, which is still around 20mm lower than standard and I'm running them at 20 clicks out, so pretty much full soft. After living with it over summer, II have stiffened it up slightly to 18 front and 16 rear, but it's now very useable and tracks the road really well, improving grip level everywhere. I found myself having to manage weight transfer when they were fully soft but the Turbo is fairly heavy so I think this might be more pronounced.
It's interesting how it can be transformed from a stiff, unforgiving car into something very comfortable with the turn of a single adjuster. Very easy to experiment and decide what works for you.
Contrary to what many would have you believe (and as you've found out) stiffer frequently isn't better. And yes low heights might look "Kool" but they impact and compromise the ride comfort and handling massively.I had the car raised to maximum, which is still around 20mm lower than standard and I'm running them at 20 clicks out, so pretty much full soft. After living with it over summer, II have stiffened it up slightly to 18 front and 16 rear, but it's now very useable and tracks the road really well, improving grip level everywhere. I found myself having to manage weight transfer when they were fully soft but the Turbo is fairly heavy so I think this might be more pronounced.
It's interesting how it can be transformed from a stiff, unforgiving car into something very comfortable with the turn of a single adjuster. Very easy to experiment and decide what works for you.
I've just fitted a set of Ohlins R&T's to my 996.2 C2, I'm on my third set of front and rear springs, as I've sought to make the ride more compliant and comfortable whilst taking advantage of the Ohlins much improved damping. I think I've nailed it now
Ride height was dropped 35mm rear and 25mm front.
Damping adjustment I think I'm at 16 out from full stiff on the front and 17 or 18 out on the rear.
Slippydiff said:
Oz83 said:
I'm running Ohlins R+T on my 2008 Turbo. When I got the car last year it was set up for track and it was pretty much undriveable on the road. It would literally get airbourne the scrape it's belly on a bumpy road. It was running very low and I think the dampers were 6 clicks out, so almost at their stiffest.
I had the car raised to maximum, which is still around 20mm lower than standard and I'm running them at 20 clicks out, so pretty much full soft. After living with it over summer, II have stiffened it up slightly to 18 front and 16 rear, but it's now very useable and tracks the road really well, improving grip level everywhere. I found myself having to manage weight transfer when they were fully soft but the Turbo is fairly heavy so I think this might be more pronounced.
It's interesting how it can be transformed from a stiff, unforgiving car into something very comfortable with the turn of a single adjuster. Very easy to experiment and decide what works for you.
Contrary to what many would have you believe (and as you've found out) stiffer frequently isn't better. And yes low heights might look "Kool" but they impact and compromise the ride comfort and handling massively.I had the car raised to maximum, which is still around 20mm lower than standard and I'm running them at 20 clicks out, so pretty much full soft. After living with it over summer, II have stiffened it up slightly to 18 front and 16 rear, but it's now very useable and tracks the road really well, improving grip level everywhere. I found myself having to manage weight transfer when they were fully soft but the Turbo is fairly heavy so I think this might be more pronounced.
It's interesting how it can be transformed from a stiff, unforgiving car into something very comfortable with the turn of a single adjuster. Very easy to experiment and decide what works for you.
I've just fitted a set of Ohlins R&T's to my 996.2 C2, I'm on my third set of front and rear springs, as I've sought to make the ride more compliant and comfortable whilst taking advantage of the Ohlins much improved damping. I think I've nailed it now
Ride height was dropped 35mm rear and 25mm front.
Damping adjustment I think I'm at 16 out from full stiff on the front and 17 or 18 out on the rear.
I sold my Seal Grey 997.1 C2 back in August and bought myself a 997.2 C2S in Guards red.
New car has PSE, Sports, Sports Plus modes and I've fitted a DSC Sports Controller to improve the ride.
Here it is getting dropped off XPel in Biggleswade for their Track Pack with some extras, which included front and rear lights, some sections on the rear bumper and the A Pillars. The guys at XPEL Biggleswade really do a great job on prep and installation and I will definitely use them again, although hopefully not on this car!
I had a PPI carried out which found a few small issues but most significantly it found 3 exhaust studs had snapped and whilst it wasn't causing an issue I hate having things wrong with my car. I researched approaches, obtained a couple of quotes and then decided upon doing it my myself.
Whilst waiting on the header jig to arrive I set about checking the brakes over. Luckily I only found one "seized" nipple. I decided to take it off and send it for repair. I used a 10mm * 1mm cap, which allowed me to remove the caliper and not introduce any air into the system.
I took the caliper, with the seized nipple, to a local specialist called https://pro-calipers.co.uk, who managed to remove it without snapping it or damaging the caliper, the threads or the paint. I had attempted this on my previous car and managed to snap 3 nipples, I guess mt previous car being 7 years older and having another 70K miles on the clock had an effect but maybe it's more my lack of skills.
With the seized nipple sorted I installed new Brembo nipples and grommmets, all round, and then I bled the brakes as the fluid was at 3% or 4%.
The exhaust jig had arrived so I set about fixing the exhaust. The headers/center silencers bolts had completely rusted to virtually nothing so I had to remove the exhuast partly joined together, not the easiest thing to do on the driveway. At one point I had one side end propped up on one knee, of an outstretched leg, whilst trying to wrestle both headers out with both hands. Thankfully the side silencers had been off recently as the hardware was new and they came off easily.
The studs that I had to drill out where quite close to casing mounts which reduced the space I had to work in and this meant that I couldn't drill squarely. I bought a super cheap small chuck. I got 3 chucks for £10 on Amazon, and the 6mm chuck worked surprisingly well. I had to tighten it up using mole grips but it held the drill bit very securely.
The bolts connecting the headers + cats to the center silencer required a fairly medieval approach. I tried nut removers, with an impact wrench, but they inevitably sheered as they were too far gone. The next approach was to cut off the heads of the nuts off and drill out, or punch, out what was left. A 4" grinder and a decent drilll with cobalt bits are your friends here :-)
Manifolds re-fitted. I went with SS bolts and used ceramic grease. I know it's widely debated about which stud/bolt material to use but I figured I'd simply loosen, re-grease and re-torque every few years. I figured there's no perfect combination of grease/material to stop corrosion and that checking every few years was the best solution.
The heatsheilds were in a bad way, so were replaced and I also changed the plugs whilst I was in there.
New heatsheilds
Heatsheilds and headers in situ
New hardware on the exhaust,
I also double coated the tandem pump with Owatrol and then added some Owatrol to Hammerite and gave it a couple of coats. Not sure how effective this will be but it didn't take long and I had Owatrol and the paint in the garage.
I've also changed the oil, to Miller CFS and put a new oil filter on.
Works up next are to change the PDK diff oil, visit to Center Gravity for geo setup and then it's new rubber on all four corners. Fingers crossed I can enjoy it for few years without having to attend to too much.
Car being enjoyed on an early morning run recently. It's a much more responsive compared to my previous C2 and more sure footed despite needing a geo and new tyres.
New car has PSE, Sports, Sports Plus modes and I've fitted a DSC Sports Controller to improve the ride.
Here it is getting dropped off XPel in Biggleswade for their Track Pack with some extras, which included front and rear lights, some sections on the rear bumper and the A Pillars. The guys at XPEL Biggleswade really do a great job on prep and installation and I will definitely use them again, although hopefully not on this car!
I had a PPI carried out which found a few small issues but most significantly it found 3 exhaust studs had snapped and whilst it wasn't causing an issue I hate having things wrong with my car. I researched approaches, obtained a couple of quotes and then decided upon doing it my myself.
Whilst waiting on the header jig to arrive I set about checking the brakes over. Luckily I only found one "seized" nipple. I decided to take it off and send it for repair. I used a 10mm * 1mm cap, which allowed me to remove the caliper and not introduce any air into the system.
I took the caliper, with the seized nipple, to a local specialist called https://pro-calipers.co.uk, who managed to remove it without snapping it or damaging the caliper, the threads or the paint. I had attempted this on my previous car and managed to snap 3 nipples, I guess mt previous car being 7 years older and having another 70K miles on the clock had an effect but maybe it's more my lack of skills.
With the seized nipple sorted I installed new Brembo nipples and grommmets, all round, and then I bled the brakes as the fluid was at 3% or 4%.
The exhaust jig had arrived so I set about fixing the exhaust. The headers/center silencers bolts had completely rusted to virtually nothing so I had to remove the exhuast partly joined together, not the easiest thing to do on the driveway. At one point I had one side end propped up on one knee, of an outstretched leg, whilst trying to wrestle both headers out with both hands. Thankfully the side silencers had been off recently as the hardware was new and they came off easily.
The studs that I had to drill out where quite close to casing mounts which reduced the space I had to work in and this meant that I couldn't drill squarely. I bought a super cheap small chuck. I got 3 chucks for £10 on Amazon, and the 6mm chuck worked surprisingly well. I had to tighten it up using mole grips but it held the drill bit very securely.
The bolts connecting the headers + cats to the center silencer required a fairly medieval approach. I tried nut removers, with an impact wrench, but they inevitably sheered as they were too far gone. The next approach was to cut off the heads of the nuts off and drill out, or punch, out what was left. A 4" grinder and a decent drilll with cobalt bits are your friends here :-)
Manifolds re-fitted. I went with SS bolts and used ceramic grease. I know it's widely debated about which stud/bolt material to use but I figured I'd simply loosen, re-grease and re-torque every few years. I figured there's no perfect combination of grease/material to stop corrosion and that checking every few years was the best solution.
The heatsheilds were in a bad way, so were replaced and I also changed the plugs whilst I was in there.
New heatsheilds
Heatsheilds and headers in situ
New hardware on the exhaust,
I also double coated the tandem pump with Owatrol and then added some Owatrol to Hammerite and gave it a couple of coats. Not sure how effective this will be but it didn't take long and I had Owatrol and the paint in the garage.
I've also changed the oil, to Miller CFS and put a new oil filter on.
Works up next are to change the PDK diff oil, visit to Center Gravity for geo setup and then it's new rubber on all four corners. Fingers crossed I can enjoy it for few years without having to attend to too much.
Car being enjoyed on an early morning run recently. It's a much more responsive compared to my previous C2 and more sure footed despite needing a geo and new tyres.
Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 11th January 14:57
Edited by FriedMarsBar on Friday 12th January 14:18
I had my GT3 serviced at GT-One in Surrey recently and they have stainless steel nipples for the brakes because apparently it's a very common issue for the originals to snap. They also spruced up the tandem pump similar to what you've done.
I'm mildly terrified of ever needing to deal with exhaust manifold bolts/studs on my car...
I'm mildly terrified of ever needing to deal with exhaust manifold bolts/studs on my car...
braddo said:
I had my GT3 serviced at GT-One in Surrey recently and they have stainless steel nipples for the brakes because apparently it's a very common issue for the originals to snap. They also spruced up the tandem pump similar to what you've done.
I'm mildly terrified of ever needing to deal with exhaust manifold bolts/studs on my car...
The material (mild steel) the OE bleed nipples are made from isn't really the issue.I'm mildly terrified of ever needing to deal with exhaust manifold bolts/studs on my car...
It's the gorillas that overtighten them (or don't bother using the inner bleed nipples to save time) that are the real problem.
guyvert1 said:
Nice writeup and alot of good work, exahust bolts are a proper PITA..
Cheers, I viewed it as one of those jobs you just need bite the bullet and get on with it. Now all the fixings are SS it should come apart easier if required. I might go for one of those center silencer deletes to add a bit more bark, the wallet just needs to recover first :-)braddo said:
I had my GT3 serviced at GT-One in Surrey recently and they have stainless steel nipples for the brakes because apparently it's a very common issue for the originals to snap. They also spruced up the tandem pump similar to what you've done.
I'm mildly terrified of ever needing to deal with exhaust manifold bolts/studs on my car...
Be afraid be very afraid! Only joking if you have the tools it's not too bad.I'm mildly terrified of ever needing to deal with exhaust manifold bolts/studs on my car...
Part of my problem, when seperating the headers from the center silencer, was that I didn't know 100% what was there as I hadn't taken one apart. When grinding the head of the bolts or the cutting the nuts off I was concerned that I was cutting through a spacer for example.
Actually one of the bolts was tricky to access so I cut through one side and chiselled it open then punched it through.
You can get stainless nips on ebay
I'm not certain these are exact thread pitch length etc because there are many to choose from
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334917888482
I'm not certain these are exact thread pitch length etc because there are many to choose from
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334917888482
Slippydiff said:
The material (mild steel) the OE bleed nipples are made from isn't really the issue.
It's the gorillas that overtighten them (or don't bother using the inner bleed nipples to save time) that are the real problem.
I 100% agree with you here, I reckon most garages only use the outer nipple when bleeding the brakes and then overtighten it. It's the gorillas that overtighten them (or don't bother using the inner bleed nipples to save time) that are the real problem.
Like the manifold studs I'll keep an eye on the nipples and will most likely bleed every year. I also put a smear of Aluslip on the threads.
ATM said:
You can get stainless nips on ebay
I'm not certain these are exact thread pitch length etc because there are many to choose from
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334917888482
Cheers for this, I'll review the state of my brake nipples after the winter and might switch but hopefully not.I'm not certain these are exact thread pitch length etc because there are many to choose from
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/334917888482
Edited by FriedMarsBar on Thursday 26th October 12:26
As per my earlier post, I took on, what for me, was a big job in taking the exhaust off and sorting the snapped manifolds studs and all the corroded nuts/bolts. I'm glad I did it and I learned a lot.
After I put it all back together, I was browsing a youtube, and discovered that my car was missing two heatshields that cover the cats. Argh!!!!
So annoying as I thought I'd planned this job in great detail, which isn't my nature, I'm much more of a take it apart and figure it out on the fly sort of person. I'd obviously obesesed over the detail of drilling out the studs and overlooked these two missing heatshields.
Heathsields purchased, from 9Apart, who were VERY competitively priced.
This is one of the missing heatshields
This is where it should go, mocked up in red. I'm not 100% sure what these heatshields protect but it looks like I'm going to have to undue the Lambda sensor (in the engine compartment) and feed them through the heatshields.
I had a slot booked at the excellent Center Gravity and this this is what the car looked like upon arrival.
Pete said in his opinion that the car has never had a geo, which surprised me.
This is what the geo was upon arrival.
I had to have new rear toe arms, not because they had failed but because the ajuster bolts had seized and as I had bought droplinks we put them on as well.
Pete sorted the castor by tweaking the front sub frame.
Geo after Pete had done this thing.
Car drives so much better but my 7 year old PZeros, which are bald on the inside due to the previous geo, are making the car fun in the wet :-)
I'll be having all four corners replaced with MP4Ss in the new year.
Testing the car in the wild
After I put it all back together, I was browsing a youtube, and discovered that my car was missing two heatshields that cover the cats. Argh!!!!
So annoying as I thought I'd planned this job in great detail, which isn't my nature, I'm much more of a take it apart and figure it out on the fly sort of person. I'd obviously obesesed over the detail of drilling out the studs and overlooked these two missing heatshields.
Heathsields purchased, from 9Apart, who were VERY competitively priced.
This is one of the missing heatshields
This is where it should go, mocked up in red. I'm not 100% sure what these heatshields protect but it looks like I'm going to have to undue the Lambda sensor (in the engine compartment) and feed them through the heatshields.
I had a slot booked at the excellent Center Gravity and this this is what the car looked like upon arrival.
Pete said in his opinion that the car has never had a geo, which surprised me.
This is what the geo was upon arrival.
I had to have new rear toe arms, not because they had failed but because the ajuster bolts had seized and as I had bought droplinks we put them on as well.
Pete sorted the castor by tweaking the front sub frame.
Geo after Pete had done this thing.
Car drives so much better but my 7 year old PZeros, which are bald on the inside due to the previous geo, are making the car fun in the wet :-)
I'll be having all four corners replaced with MP4Ss in the new year.
Testing the car in the wild
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff