The 997 - General Discussion Thread
Discussion
cseven said:
maz8062 said:
Nope. I’ve seen 40 Jahre’s advertised with engine rebuilds due to borescore.
The 40th anniversary didn't have the extra oil cooler in the middle but did have the x power kit, this was in the case of UK cars anyway.What many thought (incorrectly) was fitted to the 40th Anniversary, was the additional/third centre water radiator. Which actually is fortunate, because Hartech's in-depth studies now seem to suggest that the fitment of that additional radiator causes more problems than it solves ...
Slippydiff said:
There was no additional oil cooler, or at least not one mounted in the front bumper.
What many thought (incorrectly) was fitted to the 40th Anniversary, was the additional/third centre water radiator. Which actually is fortunate, because Hartech's in-depth studies now seem to suggest that the fitment of that additional radiator causes more problems than it solves ...
What issues does the fitment of a third rad cause?What many thought (incorrectly) was fitted to the 40th Anniversary, was the additional/third centre water radiator. Which actually is fortunate, because Hartech's in-depth studies now seem to suggest that the fitment of that additional radiator causes more problems than it solves ...
105.4 said:
Funnily enough, that was exactly what I’d be considering doing when the stars are correctly aligned for me to buy.
Get the cheapest, tattyiest one that I can with a heavily scored engine, knackered suspension, slipping clutch etc, then get everything done at once.
But then of course it requires the right car to come up for sale at the right time and the right price.
Or, get a decent-ish car for £25k, drive and enjoy for X years until it craps itself... Say that was £10k worth of "experience" and "enjoyment", then you have your £15k car Get the cheapest, tattyiest one that I can with a heavily scored engine, knackered suspension, slipping clutch etc, then get everything done at once.
But then of course it requires the right car to come up for sale at the right time and the right price.
Man maths FTW!FriedMarsBar said:
What issues does the fitment of a third rad cause?
This is a random one from what I've heard... From what I can understand (and could be very wrong!), the thermostat is on the outlet from from the engine, so you have a large loop of "cold" coolant from the engine and into the rads up front. The thermostat opens and then pushes the cold coolant into the engine and you get a thermal shock, which closes the thermostat again. The third rad exacerbates this differential in temperate which means more bore score (maybe, as everything causes bore score it seems, from wrong oil, to traffic light drag races, to esoteric materials, plastic coatings or to people wearing flip flops in winter).Apparently, if you could fit a thermostat on the 3rd rad that would resolve it...
RemarkLima said:
One thing I'm surprised is that there's few "kits" out there for the M96 / M97 engines... I'd think there's be a Electric Water Pump kit which would resolve loads of the heating / cooling issues, and you could run the pump after the engine is off to help keep things cooler.
Exactly this ^ It could be programmed to provide higher flow/greater volumes of coolant when engine revs are low and the coolant flow is poor due to the hopeless standard water pump, and it would address the nonsensical do I or don't I fit an OE pump with it's ridiculous plastic impellers that can break off and block the coolant passages in the cylinder heads, or fit an aftermarket item with a metal impeller that'll scrap my engine if/when the pump bearing fails) And it would also provide more accurately controlled flow when required, ie less flow when cold for a quicker warm up etc.
Slippydiff said:
RemarkLima said:
One thing I'm surprised is that there's few "kits" out there for the M96 / M97 engines... I'd think there's be a Electric Water Pump kit which would resolve loads of the heating / cooling issues, and you could run the pump after the engine is off to help keep things cooler.
Exactly this ^ It could be programmed to provide higher flow/greater volumes of coolant when engine revs are low and the coolant flow is poor due to the hopeless standard water pump, and it would address the nonsensical do I or don't I fit an OE pump with it's ridiculous plastic impellers that can break off and block the coolant passages in the cylinder heads, or fit an aftermarket item with a metal impeller that'll scrap my engine if/when the pump bearing fails) And it would also provide more accurately controlled flow when required, ie less flow when cold for a quicker warm up etc.
Thinking that a EWP 150 combo would be ample, and as you say the controller can handle all the parameters for warm up flow, flow with a 3rd rad, and if you stop at some lights with a hot engine it can still flow fast to help keep things at the right temps.
What I can't get is which way round the coolant goes, I assume the water pump pumps into the block so the right hand side line exits the block up to the rads? They also shouldn't be hard mounted to anything so you'd need the right hose to tap into and seems to setup for a corner... And then to gut a standard water pump / get made a blanking plate and inlet as you no longer need the waterpump / thermostat bypass, I think.
It'd be a great project, along with moving the PAS pump to the front (ideally hidden where the sat nav gubbins used to live) and then you'd just have the crank driving the alternator and A/C compressor.
Slippydiff said:
RemarkLima said:
One thing I'm surprised is that there's few "kits" out there for the M96 / M97 engines... I'd think there's be a Electric Water Pump kit which would resolve loads of the heating / cooling issues, and you could run the pump after the engine is off to help keep things cooler.
Exactly this ^ It could be programmed to provide higher flow/greater volumes of coolant when engine revs are low and the coolant flow is poor due to the hopeless standard water pump, and it would address the nonsensical do I or don't I fit an OE pump with it's ridiculous plastic impellers that can break off and block the coolant passages in the cylinder heads, or fit an aftermarket item with a metal impeller that'll scrap my engine if/when the pump bearing fails) And it would also provide more accurately controlled flow when required, ie less flow when cold for a quicker warm up etc.
RemarkLima said:
105.4 said:
Funnily enough, that was exactly what I’d be considering doing when the stars are correctly aligned for me to buy.
Get the cheapest, tattyiest one that I can with a heavily scored engine, knackered suspension, slipping clutch etc, then get everything done at once.
But then of course it requires the right car to come up for sale at the right time and the right price.
Or, get a decent-ish car for £25k, drive and enjoy for X years until it craps itself... Say that was £10k worth of "experience" and "enjoyment", then you have your £15k car Get the cheapest, tattyiest one that I can with a heavily scored engine, knackered suspension, slipping clutch etc, then get everything done at once.
But then of course it requires the right car to come up for sale at the right time and the right price.
Man maths FTW!
RemarkLima said:
This is a random one from what I've heard... From what I can understand (and could be very wrong!), the thermostat is on the outlet from from the engine, so you have a large loop of "cold" coolant from the engine and into the rads up front. The thermostat opens and then pushes the cold coolant into the engine and you get a thermal shock, which closes the thermostat again. The third rad exacerbates this differential in temperate which means more bore score (maybe, as everything causes bore score it seems, from wrong oil, to traffic light drag races, to esoteric materials, plastic coatings or to people wearing flip flops in winter).
Apparently, if you could fit a thermostat on the 3rd rad that would resolve it...
That makes sense cheersApparently, if you could fit a thermostat on the 3rd rad that would resolve it...
Nice looking car for sale on 911uk.com, I can't see a price but it's a very tidy looking Manual 2006 C2S on 70K miles
https://911uk.com/threads/997-1-c2s-for-sale-aero-...
https://911uk.com/threads/997-1-c2s-for-sale-aero-...
FriedMarsBar said:
Nice looking car for sale on 911uk.com, I can't see a price but it's a very tidy looking Manual 2006 C2S on 70K miles
https://911uk.com/threads/997-1-c2s-for-sale-aero-...
£35khttps://911uk.com/threads/997-1-c2s-for-sale-aero-...
I'm off on a Euro trip next week and as part of my prep, and general maintenance of the car, I decided that I needed some new mounts
I went for OEM quality from type911, both came too £240 delivered.
Before
After
Whilst under the rear of the car I also had a coolant pipe (where it joins the thermostat housing) retrofit upgrade to install.
I didn't have a leak but "prevention is better than a cure" etc I opted to fit it now. I think the flange on the plastic coolant pipe gets distorted via continued heat cycles and reasults in leakage. As it didn't require disconnecting the existing coolant pipe, the new clamp restofits over the existing flange, I thought it was a no brainer. I forget what it cost, circa £20 for the bolts and clamp. This is for MA1/9A1 engines.
Parts
Bolts and the shape. The protrusions on the inside of the clamp fit recessed on the plastic flange of the coolant pipe.
Fitted
I went for OEM quality from type911, both came too £240 delivered.
Before
After
Whilst under the rear of the car I also had a coolant pipe (where it joins the thermostat housing) retrofit upgrade to install.
I didn't have a leak but "prevention is better than a cure" etc I opted to fit it now. I think the flange on the plastic coolant pipe gets distorted via continued heat cycles and reasults in leakage. As it didn't require disconnecting the existing coolant pipe, the new clamp restofits over the existing flange, I thought it was a no brainer. I forget what it cost, circa £20 for the bolts and clamp. This is for MA1/9A1 engines.
Parts
Bolts and the shape. The protrusions on the inside of the clamp fit recessed on the plastic flange of the coolant pipe.
Fitted
105.4 said:
Funnily enough, that was exactly what I’d be considering doing when the stars are correctly aligned for me to buy.
Get the cheapest, tattyiest one that I can with a heavily scored engine, knackered suspension, slipping clutch etc, then get everything done at once.
But then of course it requires the right car to come up for sale at the right time and the right price.
We did that with our 997.1 C4s. It wasn’t knackered or, at 65k, that leggy but it’s like new underneath now thanks to 4.1 Hartech (with clutch, pumps, oil and coolant lines, engine mounts, cats, manifolds etc) and a complete rebuild with new dampers, arms and bushes at CoG. Oh, and DSC module too. Drives amazingly. And because it’s 18 years old it flies under most people’s radar.Get the cheapest, tattyiest one that I can with a heavily scored engine, knackered suspension, slipping clutch etc, then get everything done at once.
But then of course it requires the right car to come up for sale at the right time and the right price.
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