991.2 GTS Turbo Failure Issue
Discussion
Grantstown said:
I would agree that the warranty is a good idea, unless you're in the situation where you wish to make the car much better than it was at the time of delivery, in which case they'll no longer be happy to issue a warranty.
I've found the parts for the new pressure lines. Nice and cheap, but OPC suggests engine out! I suspect this is because of steel meeting aluminium and causing them to seize. I'll see what Ninemeister's opinion is on Monday. Generally they have solutions that are impossible to OPCs, who always replace everything in the most expensive way possible. And why not I guess if you get paid to do it by the warranty underwriters.
I spoke with Ninemeister myself, as they are very local to me alongside Weissach. Ninemeister they are definitely good for thinking outside the box, when you aren't worried about getting so much to Porsche standards or official parts. I was trying to stay to Porsche standards if the warranty was to be renewed by a future customer or myself. The seizing is an issue and hence why my engine is being taken out, depends on the situation of the car individually I guess. My turbos were sent off for refurb but were too rusty and damaged inside which Ninemeister initially suggested. I've found the parts for the new pressure lines. Nice and cheap, but OPC suggests engine out! I suspect this is because of steel meeting aluminium and causing them to seize. I'll see what Ninemeister's opinion is on Monday. Generally they have solutions that are impossible to OPCs, who always replace everything in the most expensive way possible. And why not I guess if you get paid to do it by the warranty underwriters.
But yes its a lazy way of not actually fixing a problem just send off to the insurance putting prices up for all in the long term
Grantstown said:
I’ve come across this as a potential easy device to decrease the risk of the issue oil building up in the turbos.
https://www.vektorperformance.com/shop/vektor-perf...
Saw this and the Litchfield version, I was thinking of adding it in but the specialist told me this was to do with another oil issue on the car not related to what happened to mine but anything to prevent is good I guess. https://www.vektorperformance.com/shop/vektor-perf...
My only concern would be how often it would need to be emptied or keeping an eye on it..
Grantstown said:
When I enquired at Litchfield motors, the quoted cost was 9293 to have my turbos swapped out and to be refitted with GTS turbos and then to be retuned again. They said that this could go up a little if it needed new oil lines, which I think are a must, or if the bolts holding the turbos to the manifolds had seized. The power gain would have modest over my current 506bhp, so I left it for now as it’s plenty really. They do the turbos on an exchange basis. Turbos they remove are stripped and rebuilt with parts that are of a much higher standard of production.
I’m at 34K, so my clutch may go soon as mine is a manual. My next drivetrain upgrade would then be to get a lightweight flywheel when the clutch is replaced.
I think the oil lines improve things as you say. I say mine were done several years ago by Porsche and I still have the issue. £9293 sounds about right including the labour etc. Mine is also a manual and at 57k and my clutch is still original.. Are these known to fail quite early as well do you know?I’m at 34K, so my clutch may go soon as mine is a manual. My next drivetrain upgrade would then be to get a lightweight flywheel when the clutch is replaced.
c3m said:
I'm wondering if I'm the only one surprised by how common the issue seems to be, pointing to a design flaw.
I wouldn't expect relatively new, expensive cars to be having such serious issues - surely the answer should be "Porsche should fix the design flaw/recall" rather than "Don't run a 991.2+ turbo car without a warranty because turbos will almost certainly go pop"?
I absolutely agree with you. I mean they still sell these within their Approved Used so they are clearly a modern model even to them. I don't hear of many other cars having such massive inherent problems and people just say you need a warranty even ones which are way cheaper. Had I known I would have never touched it to be honest. Had a cayman from new for 4 years with 0 issues, expected the same thing with a 911. I mean 50k miles on a modern car is absolutely nothing - never mind one that costs this much As another poster said if the manufacturer was British you would hear about it and they would sort it out with customers I'm sure. I steered away from AML thinking Porsche would be more reliable & stand by their productI wouldn't expect relatively new, expensive cars to be having such serious issues - surely the answer should be "Porsche should fix the design flaw/recall" rather than "Don't run a 991.2+ turbo car without a warranty because turbos will almost certainly go pop"?
Cheib said:
Recall’s mean you have to admit something serious is wrong with a car and also have to be informed to shareholders if significant. Neither of which Porsche will be keen to do….never mind the logistics of all 991.2’s needing workshop time which as we know is a nightmare at most OPC’s.
I can absolutely see why they don't want to do it but even with a warranty I would find it very difficult to have in the back of my mind especially on a nice European trip or long distance that the turbos might go, sort of ruins the fun. Even retaining loyalty to Porsche and getting a newer car say to fix the problem for example a 992 but according to Ninemeister and others online they have the same issues such not as prevalent yet. What seems strange though is the 911 'Turbo' and 'Turbo S' don't seem to have as many issues - I know different engine but still..
Has anyone considered moving away from Porsche? I'm contemplating a Lexus LC500.. I looked at it before this 991.2 GTS and wish I had gone ahead. I know many people who have dealt with Toyota / Lexus even at 100k miles with certain issues and they have sorted it out no questions asked. Even the GR Yaris has a 10 year no quibbles warranty for a fraction of the price of a 911. If Porsche believe they offer the same engineering, It make me wonder - why don't they offer it?
rjh_36093 said:
I absolutely agree with you. I mean they still sell these within their Approved Used so they are clearly a modern model even to them. I don't hear of many other cars having such massive inherent problems and people just say you need a warranty even ones which are way cheaper. Had I known I would have never touched it to be honest. Had a cayman from new for 4 years with 0 issues, expected the same thing with a 911. I mean 50k miles on a modern car is absolutely nothing - never mind one that costs this much As another poster said if the manufacturer was British you would hear about it and they would sort it out with customers I'm sure. I steered away from AML thinking Porsche would be more reliable & stand by their product
Yeah, exactly, imagine paying £100k for a 911 and being stranded on the road when the car is 2–3-4yrs old. Absolutely ridiculous.rjh_36093 said:
I absolutely agree with you. I mean they still sell these within their Approved Used so they are clearly a modern model even to them. I don't hear of many other cars having such massive inherent problems and people just say you need a warranty even ones which are way cheaper. Had I known I would have never touched it to be honest. Had a cayman from new for 4 years with 0 issues, expected the same thing with a 911. I mean 50k miles on a modern car is absolutely nothing - never mind one that costs this much As another poster said if the manufacturer was British you would hear about it and they would sort it out with customers I'm sure. I steered away from AML thinking Porsche would be more reliable & stand by their product
Porsche has plenty of form in this area. Sadly. They stepped up with the 991 GT3, but that was the exception rather the rule.rjh_36093 said:
I think the oil lines improve things as you say. I say mine were done several years ago by Porsche and I still have the issue. £9293 sounds about right including the labour etc. Mine is also a manual and at 57k and my clutch is still original.. Are these known to fail quite early as well do you know?
No, they’re not known to fail early, but my car has a lot of torque, so I’ve anticipated it. Clutches on Ferraris and Astons would go earlier by reputation. rjh_36093 said:
Has anyone considered moving away from Porsche? I'm contemplating a Lexus LC500.. I looked at it before this 991.2 GTS and wish I had gone ahead. I know many people who have dealt with Toyota / Lexus even at 100k miles with certain issues and they have sorted it out no questions asked. Even the GR Yaris has a 10 year no quibbles warranty for a fraction of the price of a 911. If Porsche believe they offer the same engineering, It make me wonder - why don't they offer it?
The Lexus isn’t comparable as a drivers car, but no doubt a lovely place to sit. Ninemeister felt the catch can was a really good idea, but Litchfield don’t sell me one, as they’re concerned that it will be copied. Pretty laughable really, but I’ll find something similar. A proper clean under the car and treatment with lanoguard should help keep things in as good an order as possible.
c3m said:
Yeah, exactly, imagine paying £100k for a 911 and being stranded on the road when the car is 2–3-4yrs old. Absolutely ridiculous.
It is insane, I cannot believe it's not a recall but I guess time with show as with the 997 Bore scoring and it will become more widely known about. You might see my later posts regarding Toyota / Lexus. I know many people who have had issues with these at 100k and they just sort it out. For way less of a purchase price than any Porsche most of the time - have the customer and loyalty to the brand at heart. I feel very shortchanged, wish I had gotten another Cayman originally and not scratched the 911 itch! Only reason I changed originally was because my 718 was written off by a drunk driver!
Grantstown said:
The Lexus isn’t comparable as a drivers car, but no doubt a lovely place to sit.
Definitely not in the driving sense but still really good for an everyday road car & with that V8 noise. The interior is impeccable that's for sure and a rare sight which is a big plus in my opinion Grantstown said:
Ninemeister felt the catch can was a really good idea, but Litchfield don’t sell me one, as they’re concerned that it will be copied. Pretty laughable really, but I’ll find something similar. A proper clean under the car and treatment with lanoguard should help keep things in as good an order as possible.
That's interesting, I was actually thinking of doing the same and getting Weissach to put it in as they said they would after discussing on the phone. I will phone Litchfield tomorrow myself re this issue and see if they have any other ideas as I haven't had time thus far. There is another available from the US, linked earlier in this forum as well. Strange they won't sell it direct though even though its on their website and could be removed anyway.. The lanoguard is an option for sure, If I decide to keep it, maybe I'll have to invest in a car stacker or scissor lift to check it out underneath every few weeks
They are great cars and I love driving it, like the more classic look, drive and pre OPF, plus the more analogue feel compared to the 992 but honestly if Porsche could come up with a permanent solution or recall for this it would be perfect and would honestly keep for many, many years.
rjh_36093 said:
That's interesting, I was actually thinking of doing the same and getting Weissach to put it in as they said they would after discussing on the phone. I will phone Litchfield tomorrow myself re this issue and see if they have any other ideas as I haven't had time thus far. There is another available from the US, linked earlier in this forum as well. Strange they won't sell it direct though even though its on their website and could be removed anyway..
The lanoguard is an option for sure, If I decide to keep it, maybe I'll have to invest in a car stacker or scissor lift to check it out underneath every few weeks
They are great cars and I love driving it, like the more classic look, drive and pre OPF, plus the more analogue feel compared to the 992 but honestly if Porsche could come up with a permanent solution or recall for this it would be perfect and would honestly keep for many, many years.
I think you should embrace improvement and get the car sorted out. Weissach is quite new. They’re probably great, but personally I’d have my car trailered to Litchfield for this job if I was you. The lanoguard is an option for sure, If I decide to keep it, maybe I'll have to invest in a car stacker or scissor lift to check it out underneath every few weeks
They are great cars and I love driving it, like the more classic look, drive and pre OPF, plus the more analogue feel compared to the 992 but honestly if Porsche could come up with a permanent solution or recall for this it would be perfect and would honestly keep for many, many years.
Porsche won’t come up with a solution for this I suspect, but the independent sector will.
Guybrush said:
Porsche are doing quite well from people's fear of an expensive failure, prompting people to take out the extended warranty and stick with their servicing. It could be suggested they have no interest in solving the problems.
They wouldn't be the first, Apple settled a $500m class action lawsuit for planned obsolescence Guybrush said:
Porsche are doing quite well from people's fear of an expensive failure, prompting people to take out the extended warranty and stick with their servicing. It could be suggested they have no interest in solving the problems.
Is it not owned and run by an insurance provider and not Porsche bosshog said:
Is it not owned and run by an insurance provider and not Porsche
If that’s the case, then the warranty must pay out less than it takes in. This seems unlikely from my experience of P forums, but who knows. Still, OPCs will be happy enough to maximise their individual profits by keeping the customers in house and replacing every part that they can possibly get away with when a claim comes in. Grantstown said:
bosshog said:
Is it not owned and run by an insurance provider and not Porsche
If that’s the case, then the warranty must pay out less than it takes in. This seems unlikely from my experience of P forums, but who knows. Still, OPCs will be happy enough to maximise their individual profits by keeping the customers in house and replacing every part that they can possibly get away with when a claim comes in. Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff