992 Turbo S issues-Right to reject

[funboxster]

maz8062 said:

Mate, I’m giving you a hard time - don’t take it personally and I genuinely hope it all gets resolved - either way, and you carry on enjoying these high end cars.

For me it’s an eye opener, one that I hadn’t consciously thought of in the past - I will from now on, but hope I’m never in your position because it must be stressful.

Good luck and Nick, I’m out

None taken. You're entitled to an opinion. Thank you.

[funboxster]

So today I've received a written response from the DP, which advised that my case has been passed to the Porsche Interaction team at HQ, as any request to reject must be supported by the importer?

The DP has promised to update me again by Friday, with a timeline for resolution. The tone of the email indicates their wish to come to an amicable outcome.

[GT4RS]

s2000db said:

Muzzer79 said:

s2000db said:

I shouldn’t be too concerned about Porsche losing money in this, there’s probably at least £100k gross margin on this car..
I very much doubt the parts and manufacturing costs total any where near 6 figures imo…

I am in agreement with the OP in respect of rejection.

However, highlighting parts and manufacturing cost is irrelevant. An iPhone doesn’t cost £1000 to physically make, but that ignores th research, development, testing, marketing, etc - all of which have to be paid for.

So would the minimum 20% net profit that Porsche are making on this model be more relevant for you?

The fact is that Porsche could easily afford to:-
deal with this customer in a timely manner
Develop the car better so these faults don’t occur
Absorb the car into its system, repair it and resell it.
Train and monitor their dealers/techs better so these faults don’t reoccur.

If they did that porsche wouldn’t have made the huge profits that they did recently.

[GT4RS]

Forester1965 said:

maz8062 said:

What folk fail to appreciate are the unintended consequences of these types of incidents. The op has lost interest in the car so even if Porsche offered a partial refund, extended warranty, a massage even, the OP wants their money back. Period.

Over the short term it looks like a win for the small
man vs the corporate company, but in the end we all end up paying for it. Corporates don’t like living money so they find a way, perhaps charge more for the product, increase warranty costs, service costs etc.

The Op has had a McLaren. Chopped it in for a refund. A secondhand AM with lots of issues during the first few months of ownership. He didn’t chop it in, he stuck it out and loved the car through it. The Porsche, he’s had enough so it has to go. There’s a pattern for sure, but he can and most likely will.

What you fail to appreciate is that if you produce and sell a premium product it should behave like one.

100%

[moonigan]

funboxster said:

So today I've received a written response from the DP, which advised that my case has been passed to the Porsche Interaction team at HQ, as any request to reject must be supported by the importer?

The DP has promised to update me again by Friday, with a timeline for resolution. The tone of the email indicates their wish to come to an amicable outcome.

Let the games begin.

[funboxster]

GT4RS said:

On what date did you submit your letter?

Since submitting your position in writing to the dealership have they contacted you verbally or in writing confirming they have acknowledged receipt of it?

Hi GT4RS
Our posts have crossed, but my email was sent on 11 April, requesting a resolution by 25 April. Their sales manager emailed me on 12 April, acknowledging my email and today, the DP emailed me to advise that my case has been passed to Porsche HQ and that he will be personally across it, moving forward.

[FMOB]

moonigan said:

funboxster said:

So today I've received a written response from the DP, which advised that my case has been passed to the Porsche Interaction team at HQ, as any request to reject must be supported by the importer?

The DP has promised to update me again by Friday, with a timeline for resolution. The tone of the email indicates their wish to come to an amicable outcome.

Let the games begin.

So time for a sweep stake, how long do we think this will take to get resolved?

Why does a rejection need to be supported by the importer? Your contract is with the dealer who sold you the car.

Looks like the delaying tactics and bullst generator are winding into action.

Having been on the receiving end of this, I wouldn't trust them as far as I could throw a 911.

[Cheib]

coffeekid said:

Surely its worth giving them another go to fix the problem - could be something relatively minor and not necessarily the same issue as before?

I had a PADM failure after only 3000 miles, the week after getting it fixed I had the same PADM error again - turned out to be the one on the other side - dropped it in to OPC, they replaced - no big deal, car back on the road the next day and no issues since.

I think if they thought it was something straightforward the OPC would have got the car in ASAP as that potentially saves them a lot of money…of course if it comes in and they can’t fix it it makes things worse for them. As I posted toward the start of this thread OPC’s have flex in their service department work schedules because they have no idea what is going to show up on any car that comes in. Or indeed a car that arrives on a low loader that’s been recovered. They could definitely get his car in if they wanted to….

The fact the OPC is making the OP wait a month tells you they either don’t have faith they can fix it or they’ve gone straight to the “delay and frustrate” play book.

[funboxster]

Cheib said:

I think if they thought it was something straightforward the OPC would have got the car in ASAP as that potentially saves them a lot of money…of course if it comes in and they can’t fix it it makes things worse for them. As I posted toward the start of this thread OPC’s have flex in their service department work schedules because they have no idea what is going to show up on any car that comes in. Or indeed a car that arrives on a low loader that’s been recovered. They could definitely get his car in if they wanted to….

The fact the OPC is making the OP wait a month tells you they either don’t have faith they can fix it or they’ve gone straight to the “delay and frustrate” play book.

To be fair to the dealer, the car was booked in, before my decision to reject, which was made the following week. The delay in getting the car in, hastened my decision. Since receiving my rejection email, there's been no attempt by the dealer to bring forward the date.

[Skrambles]

funboxster said:

To be fair to the dealer, the car was booked in, before my decision to reject, which was made the following week. The delay in getting the car in, hastened my decision. Since receiving my rejection email, there's been no attempt by the dealer to bring forward the date.

The delay is nonetheless a factor against them, IMO.

I sympathise with your position and would probably feel the same if I bought a new one of these. But, unless the issue was one that caused me to lose all faith in the model, I'd be happy with a new replacement (less a mileage allowance).

As you say, they're just a 'product' and the higher the price, the higher the quality should be to make it satisfactory. I had a new e60 M5 and a new x5 v8, each of which cost less than half the price of your car, and was willing to put up with faults that required the car to be off road when still new. But if they'd cost £100k+, I'd have been adopting your position. Saying that, the e70 x5 40d that I bought new had issues from new and turned out to be a lemon, with loads of visits back to BMW. In hindsight, I should have rejected it!

[Iceblue]

funboxster said:

Hi GT4RS
Our posts have crossed, but my email was sent on 11 April, requesting a resolution by 25 April. Their sales manager emailed me on 12 April, acknowledging my email and today, the DP emailed me to advise that my case has been passed to Porsche HQ and that he will be personally across it, moving forward.

Can't understand why it needs to go to Porsche HQ, I rejected a BMW a few years ago admittedly in the first month of ownership but it was handled solely within the dealership they are the retailer who sold you the car.
Agreed to keep the car until the new replacement was delivered three months later.

Edited by Iceblue on Wednesday 17th April 12:12

[AyBee]

funboxster said:

I'm not expecting my full purchase price back and never have.

What are you expecting? Is retail price acceptable? Your original post was asking about the likelihood of them taking c.£500-1,000 off what you paid.

Jeremy-75qq8 said:

Mine went back to the dealer an hour after collection and was rejected on day 28.

Very different scenario. I wonder if this was a GT3RS whether the OP would be more inclined to give the dealer time to fix it...

[SV_WDC]

Cheib said:

The fact the OPC is making the OP wait a month tells you they either don’t have faith they can fix it or they’ve gone straight to the “delay and frustrate” play book.

Or it could be they have looked at their system & seen 'the earliest we can take a booking is next month, so that is what we will offer.'

Although I agree they have capacity in their workshop, it is unlikely something they offer, because as a customer it is probably frustrating to be told "we have the car, but we don't actually know when we can start working on it" blah blah

[rawenghey]

funboxster said:

I was talking to a friend today, who was the owner of a local Mazda dealership, before selling up. I told him to wear his owner's hat and don't pull your punches. He felt I had a very good case to reject, but that I should contact Porsche HO Customer service. I'm nervous of doing this though, as that would undermine the dealer, before they've had a chance to respond, which was by 25 April.

I don't see why they've been given so long to respond, whilst you sit here waiting. They already know what they're going to say and do.

[funboxster]

Iceblue said:

Can't understand why it needs to go to Porsche HQ, I rejected a BMW a few years ago admittedly in the first month of ownership but it was handled solely within the dealership they are the retailer who sold you the car.
Agreed to keep the car until the new replacement was delivered three months later.

Edited by Iceblue on Wednesday 17th April 12:12

My first thoughts about the referral to Porsche HQ, were exactly the same. My contract is with the dealer. I purposely haven't named the dealership, but I now understand they're not a franchise, but actually owned by Porsche GB. Maybe it's been referred upwards, as HQ may contribute towards costs?

[funboxster]

AyBee said:

funboxster said:

I'm not expecting my full purchase price back and never have.

What are you expecting? Is retail price acceptable? Your original post was asking about the likelihood of them taking c.£500-1,000 off what you paid.

Jeremy-75qq8 said:

Mine went back to the dealer an hour after collection and was rejected on day 28.

Very different scenario. I wonder if this was a GT3RS whether the OP would be more inclined to give the dealer time to fix it...

I expect to receive back my purchase price, less a reasonable(to both parties) deduction for miles added. CRA is vague about what the allowance should be, but I understand it shouldn't include depreciation. Ideally I would want the HMRC 45p figure used x 2500 miles, but I live in the real world and don't expect them to agree to that. There will be some bartering, no doubt. I hope the dealer will be sensible and take into account the eight weeks the car will have been unavailable to me, in 16 weeks of ownership.

And no, even if I had a GT3RS, (not that I was ever interested in one) I'd still reject. If a product( I deliberately keep using this term) is not of satisfactory quality, then I want rid. If a product works, I keep them.

[elan362]

I think you are being unreasonable.

[GT4RS]

elan362 said:

I think you are being unreasonable.

You may think that, but it’s not your £200k stuck in a lemon!

[Jeremy-75qq8]

My views for what they are worth as someone who has rejected a car.

Let's look as some facts.

I waited 2 years for my car. I don't know how long the op waited but it is likely similar.

The sum of money involved is significant.

No one needs a 911 they are for the majority of owners toys. Toys bring pleasure they don't bring agro.

The 911 is not a niche vehicle from a minor manufacture. It is a mature product from a large manufacturer that has been in production in its current state for some 5 or so years. It is entirely reasonable that the issues with the cars are sorted. If you look at the forums things like chassis errors are common. There are many more including the issue I had ( which I won't do into and is not the subject of this thread )

Most cars I have had - including a range rover with a miserable reputation - just work.

I don't see why other posters feel the op is being unreasonable. Would you feel happy having £200k tied up in a car giving problems. ? May answer is categorically no.

They are fantastic cars but they are not without fault and their aura cannot be allowed to cloud the issue of a car with problems.

Everyone can have their own views of course - but so can the op and he is the one out some £200k on a toy that instead of causing pleasure is causing agro.

[garypotter]

alot of comments about depreciation etc but i do agree with OP if i had spent money on any value new vehicle and it was not fit for purpose i would also be taking it back to the dealer asking for money back.

Stick with it and keep us informed on ow you get on.

Sadly for me i can only afford 2nd hand cars