996-997 wet-sump engine reliability: enter your stats here!
Discussion
smartrepair said:
Also 1999 996 with 80k miles. Cracked cylinder liner. At least one RMS (no idea of the number of previous owners).
Hope this helps
Kare, Spain
At what mileage did the cylinder liner crack? did they have to change the whole engine? till what mileage did you keep the car?Hope this helps
Kare, Spain
Kay
All2Chewy said:
CORRECTION: My n/s driveshaft broke on Thursday night, I wonder if posting no reported problems on here chanced fate. Bugger I knew I should have touched wood. lol...
I was only doing 20mph at the time and going around a bumby corner, that may have something to do with it, really upset as going to be without a car for a few days. Oh well time to be ferried around in the other halfs reliable Honda Jazz, great little car by the way!
All2Chewy,I was only doing 20mph at the time and going around a bumby corner, that may have something to do with it, really upset as going to be without a car for a few days. Oh well time to be ferried around in the other halfs reliable Honda Jazz, great little car by the way!
Sorry to hear about your ordeal, very bad luck there! Do you have the Porsche warranty, has it been diagnosed and will this be an engine replacement?
Kay
Bigfoot769 said:
June 2007
Purchased a 1999 C4 with 45k on the clock. previous car was an XK8 and i fancied soething more driver focused. Porsche was my choice due to its legendary build quality and performance
engine failure at 46500 miles. loud tapping from engine and went into limp home mode. complete rebuild and 997 engine upgrade fitted ... 3k bill through a local independant specialist.
love the car though
3K bill doesn't sound like an intermediate shaft or any of the other engine failures we've seen here.Purchased a 1999 C4 with 45k on the clock. previous car was an XK8 and i fancied soething more driver focused. Porsche was my choice due to its legendary build quality and performance
engine failure at 46500 miles. loud tapping from engine and went into limp home mode. complete rebuild and 997 engine upgrade fitted ... 3k bill through a local independant specialist.
love the car though
New statistics to come soon, I'm on mission early next week and later in the week off, I'll put up the latest stats.
Kay
The new batch of 21 entries includes 6 engine failures, some from new users. It must be the season. The number of the week: 16.82% (of the cars out here have sufferd an engine failure).
Current stats:
Out of 107 996's:
- 16.82% or 18 engine failures (twelve 3.4 and six 3.6)
- 47.7% or 51 cases have had RMS. When you have it, you get it on average 1.35 times.
- 41% or 51 cases have had none of these two problems (twenty-six 3.4s, seventeen 3.6, one unspecified).
In the survey, there are 41 3,6s, 62 3.4s, and four unspecified.
To summarize, the mean car in this dataset is a September 2000 996, that has a 47.7% chance of an rms problem at 40,240 Miles and a 16.82% chance of an engine failure at 51,000 Miles.
RMS distribution:
1997 1 RMS out of 1 car in survey
1998 5 RMS out of 8 cars in survey
1999 10 RMS out of 21 cars in survey
2000 5 RMS out of 14 cars in survey
2001 8 RMS out of 13 cars in survey
2002 10 RMS out of 16 cars in survey
2003 6 RMS out of 14 cars in survey
2004 2 RMS out of 8 cars in survey
2001 and 2002 and 1998 are the worst years for RMS cases (the more frequent availability of a warranty being the reason?).
2000 and 2004 are the best years.
12 entries in the stats didn't specify the year, 5 of which were affected by RMS.
engine failure distribution:
1997 1 failure out of 1 car in survey
1998 2 failures out of 8 cars in survey
1999 7 failures out of 21 cars in survey
2000 1 failures out of 14 cars in survey
2001 2 failures out of 13 cars in survey
2002 2 failures out of 16 cars in survey
2003 1 failures out of 14 cars in survey
2004 2 failure out 8 cars in survey
1999 is the worst year, followed by 1998 and 2004. 2003 and 2000 are the best years.
12 entries didn't specify the year, 1 with a failure.
Complete dataset:
ID enginefailure failuremileage rms rmsmileage currentmileage enginesize year username
1 1 failure 3 RMS 36 3.6 2002 xTVR
2 1 failure no RMS 48 3.4 1998 siko
3 no failure 1 RMS 55 3.6 2001 Wetwipe
4 no failure no RMS Bumcrack
5 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
6 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
7 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
8 no failure 1 RMS 18 30 3.6 2002 steve996
9 no failure 1 RMS 55 64 3.4 1998 jonny996
10 no failure 1 RMS 53 56 3.4 1999 Ballcock
11 no failure 2 RMS 31 26 3.4 2001 2something
12 1 failure 10 1 RMS 50 3.4 1999 fastfreddy
13 1 failure 25 no RMS 25 3.6 2004 hussar10a
14 no failure 3 RMS 25 3.6 2003 Dreammeister
15 no failure 1 RMS 3.6 Geneve
16 no failure no RMS 3.4 Geneve
17 no failure 2 RMS 3.6 2002 whoami
18 no failure no RMS 11 3.6 2004 C4SCAB
19 no failure 1 RMS 62 3.4 1999 HONEYMON57ER
20 no failure no RMS 7 3.4 2000 mbutchers
21 no failure no RMS 5 3.6 2003 mbutchers
22 no failure 1 RMS 18 3.6 2003 mbutchers
23 no failure 1 RMS 40 60 3.4 1999 nbetts
24 no failure no RMS 25 3.6 2003 nbetts
25 no failure 1 RMS 30 3.4 2000 R1_JON
26 no failure no RMS 3.4 Homer J
27 no failure 2 RMS 35 3.6 2003 deevee
28 1 failure 29 1 RMS 29 3.6 2002 joelasagna
29 no failure 1 RMS 48 3.6 2002 baptistsan
30 no failure no RMS 55 3.4 1999 The Griffalo
31 no failure no RMS 19 3.4 2000 Ir Baboon
32 no failure 2 RMS 30 71 3.4 2000 Vesuvius 996
33 no failure 1 RMS 42 3.4 DucatiGary
34 no failure no RMS 24 3.6 2004 andrew!
35 no failure no RMS 66 3.4 1998 EVO575
36 no failure no RMS 95 3.4 1999 Ogiii
37 no failure 3 RMS 45 3.6 2001 thepilsbury
38 no failure no RMS 32 3.6 2002 wadfa
39 no failure no RMS 67 3.4 1999 LeeME3
40 no failure no RMS 17 3.6 2004 widebody
41 1 failure 86 no RMS 3.4 1999 italiansummer
42 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.6 2003 alxce
43 1 failure 70 1 RMS 3.4 1998 TheMonster
44 no failure 1 RMS 15 3.6 2003 fulham911club
45 no failure 1 RMS 11 3.4 1999 Jessica_Wabbit
46 no failure 1 RMS 4 3.6 2003 Jessica_Wabbit
47 no failure no RMS 52 3.4 2000 tracer.smart
48 no failure 1 RMS 52 3.6 2002 Spid
49 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 2001 Neilpeel59
50 no failure 2 RMS 80 3.6 2002 flow99
51 no failure no RMS 54 3.4 Fabster
52 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.4 2000 Ragtop
53 no failure no RMS 12 3.6 2002 Ragtop
54 no failure no RMS 49 3.4 2000 Diesel130
55 no failure no RMS 56 3.6 2002 nxi20
56 no failure no RMS 9 3.6 2003 C4S 3.6
57 1 failure 75 3 RMS 65 3.4 1999 rossfitz
58 1 failure 15 no RMS 18 3.6 headlesshorseman
59 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 1999 richardb.jones
60 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 1998 gfreeman
61 1 failure 63 no RMS 63 3.4 2001 g_j_d
62 no failure 1 RMS 44 3.4 2001 welshnobby
63 no failure 1 RMS 86 3.4 1999 kVA
64 no failure no RMS 40 3.4 2000 GMMK
65 no failure no RMS 3.6 2002 bigsi
66 no failure no RMS 3.4 2000 gmk666
67 no failure 2 RMS 72 96 3.4 1998 Stew The Bench
68 no failure 1 RMS 54 62 3.4 1998 mikeo996
69 no failure 1 RMS 70 3.4 1999 Rappa
70 no failure no RMS 37 3.6 2003 911Guy
71 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 2001 Naz 111
72 no failure no RMS 3.4 ricardo60
73 no failure no RMS 3.6 2002 KFB 911
74 no failure 2 RMS 5 3.6 2002 riskmerchant
75 no failure no RMS 20 3.6 2003 Wurls
76 no failure no RMS 16 3.6 2003 Wurls
77 no failure 1 RMS 30 3.4 2001 clorenzen
78 no failure 1 RMS 63 71 3.6 2002 Mousem40
79 1 failure 48 no RMS 3.4 1999 butcherboy
80 1 failure 61 no RMS 3.4 1999 johnstewart
81 no failure no RMS 45 3.4 1998 benno
82 no failure no RMS 18 3.4 2000 benno
83 no failure no RMS 10 3.6 2004 benno
84 no failure 1 RMS 33 50 3.4 2000 Mikeoupe
85 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 2001 Worzel
86 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 2002 green911
87 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 1999 JSS 911
88 1 failure 9 no RMS 9 3.6 2004 scamphor
89 1 failure 48 no RMS 3.4 2000 woogie
90 no failure 1 RMS 40 48 3.4 1999 Fiscracer
91 no failure no RMS 37 3.4 1999 Chauch
92 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 2001 fdeville
93 1 failure 130 2 RMS 130 3.4 2001 my996WASgreat
94 no failure no RMS 32 3.6 2002 Andy Meads
95 no failure no RMS 46 3.4 2001 JW911
96 no failure 1 RMS 80 3.4 1999 smartrepair
97 1 failure no RMS 3.6 2003 jules_s
98 no failure 1 RMS 110 120 3.4 2000 All2Chewy
99 no failure 3 RMS 41 3.6 2004 PJI
100 no failure no RMS 54 3.4 good grief
101 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 1997 1231
102 no failure 1 RMS 20 20 3.6 2004 mercurius
103 no failure no RMS 3.6 2003 jnd
104 no failure 1 RMS 48 70 3.4 2001 Naz 111
105 1 failure 46 no RMS 0 3.4 1999 Bigfoot769
106 no failure no RMS 58 3.4 2000 mentaldental
107 1 failure 50 no RMS 3.4 1999 roofrack996
Kay
Current stats:
Out of 107 996's:
- 16.82% or 18 engine failures (twelve 3.4 and six 3.6)
- 47.7% or 51 cases have had RMS. When you have it, you get it on average 1.35 times.
- 41% or 51 cases have had none of these two problems (twenty-six 3.4s, seventeen 3.6, one unspecified).
In the survey, there are 41 3,6s, 62 3.4s, and four unspecified.
To summarize, the mean car in this dataset is a September 2000 996, that has a 47.7% chance of an rms problem at 40,240 Miles and a 16.82% chance of an engine failure at 51,000 Miles.
RMS distribution:
1997 1 RMS out of 1 car in survey
1998 5 RMS out of 8 cars in survey
1999 10 RMS out of 21 cars in survey
2000 5 RMS out of 14 cars in survey
2001 8 RMS out of 13 cars in survey
2002 10 RMS out of 16 cars in survey
2003 6 RMS out of 14 cars in survey
2004 2 RMS out of 8 cars in survey
2001 and 2002 and 1998 are the worst years for RMS cases (the more frequent availability of a warranty being the reason?).
2000 and 2004 are the best years.
12 entries in the stats didn't specify the year, 5 of which were affected by RMS.
engine failure distribution:
1997 1 failure out of 1 car in survey
1998 2 failures out of 8 cars in survey
1999 7 failures out of 21 cars in survey
2000 1 failures out of 14 cars in survey
2001 2 failures out of 13 cars in survey
2002 2 failures out of 16 cars in survey
2003 1 failures out of 14 cars in survey
2004 2 failure out 8 cars in survey
1999 is the worst year, followed by 1998 and 2004. 2003 and 2000 are the best years.
12 entries didn't specify the year, 1 with a failure.
Complete dataset:
ID enginefailure failuremileage rms rmsmileage currentmileage enginesize year username
1 1 failure 3 RMS 36 3.6 2002 xTVR
2 1 failure no RMS 48 3.4 1998 siko
3 no failure 1 RMS 55 3.6 2001 Wetwipe
4 no failure no RMS Bumcrack
5 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
6 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
7 no failure 1 RMS Wanta996
8 no failure 1 RMS 18 30 3.6 2002 steve996
9 no failure 1 RMS 55 64 3.4 1998 jonny996
10 no failure 1 RMS 53 56 3.4 1999 Ballcock
11 no failure 2 RMS 31 26 3.4 2001 2something
12 1 failure 10 1 RMS 50 3.4 1999 fastfreddy
13 1 failure 25 no RMS 25 3.6 2004 hussar10a
14 no failure 3 RMS 25 3.6 2003 Dreammeister
15 no failure 1 RMS 3.6 Geneve
16 no failure no RMS 3.4 Geneve
17 no failure 2 RMS 3.6 2002 whoami
18 no failure no RMS 11 3.6 2004 C4SCAB
19 no failure 1 RMS 62 3.4 1999 HONEYMON57ER
20 no failure no RMS 7 3.4 2000 mbutchers
21 no failure no RMS 5 3.6 2003 mbutchers
22 no failure 1 RMS 18 3.6 2003 mbutchers
23 no failure 1 RMS 40 60 3.4 1999 nbetts
24 no failure no RMS 25 3.6 2003 nbetts
25 no failure 1 RMS 30 3.4 2000 R1_JON
26 no failure no RMS 3.4 Homer J
27 no failure 2 RMS 35 3.6 2003 deevee
28 1 failure 29 1 RMS 29 3.6 2002 joelasagna
29 no failure 1 RMS 48 3.6 2002 baptistsan
30 no failure no RMS 55 3.4 1999 The Griffalo
31 no failure no RMS 19 3.4 2000 Ir Baboon
32 no failure 2 RMS 30 71 3.4 2000 Vesuvius 996
33 no failure 1 RMS 42 3.4 DucatiGary
34 no failure no RMS 24 3.6 2004 andrew!
35 no failure no RMS 66 3.4 1998 EVO575
36 no failure no RMS 95 3.4 1999 Ogiii
37 no failure 3 RMS 45 3.6 2001 thepilsbury
38 no failure no RMS 32 3.6 2002 wadfa
39 no failure no RMS 67 3.4 1999 LeeME3
40 no failure no RMS 17 3.6 2004 widebody
41 1 failure 86 no RMS 3.4 1999 italiansummer
42 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.6 2003 alxce
43 1 failure 70 1 RMS 3.4 1998 TheMonster
44 no failure 1 RMS 15 3.6 2003 fulham911club
45 no failure 1 RMS 11 3.4 1999 Jessica_Wabbit
46 no failure 1 RMS 4 3.6 2003 Jessica_Wabbit
47 no failure no RMS 52 3.4 2000 tracer.smart
48 no failure 1 RMS 52 3.6 2002 Spid
49 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 2001 Neilpeel59
50 no failure 2 RMS 80 3.6 2002 flow99
51 no failure no RMS 54 3.4 Fabster
52 no failure 1 RMS 27 3.4 2000 Ragtop
53 no failure no RMS 12 3.6 2002 Ragtop
54 no failure no RMS 49 3.4 2000 Diesel130
55 no failure no RMS 56 3.6 2002 nxi20
56 no failure no RMS 9 3.6 2003 C4S 3.6
57 1 failure 75 3 RMS 65 3.4 1999 rossfitz
58 1 failure 15 no RMS 18 3.6 headlesshorseman
59 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 1999 richardb.jones
60 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 1998 gfreeman
61 1 failure 63 no RMS 63 3.4 2001 g_j_d
62 no failure 1 RMS 44 3.4 2001 welshnobby
63 no failure 1 RMS 86 3.4 1999 kVA
64 no failure no RMS 40 3.4 2000 GMMK
65 no failure no RMS 3.6 2002 bigsi
66 no failure no RMS 3.4 2000 gmk666
67 no failure 2 RMS 72 96 3.4 1998 Stew The Bench
68 no failure 1 RMS 54 62 3.4 1998 mikeo996
69 no failure 1 RMS 70 3.4 1999 Rappa
70 no failure no RMS 37 3.6 2003 911Guy
71 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 2001 Naz 111
72 no failure no RMS 3.4 ricardo60
73 no failure no RMS 3.6 2002 KFB 911
74 no failure 2 RMS 5 3.6 2002 riskmerchant
75 no failure no RMS 20 3.6 2003 Wurls
76 no failure no RMS 16 3.6 2003 Wurls
77 no failure 1 RMS 30 3.4 2001 clorenzen
78 no failure 1 RMS 63 71 3.6 2002 Mousem40
79 1 failure 48 no RMS 3.4 1999 butcherboy
80 1 failure 61 no RMS 3.4 1999 johnstewart
81 no failure no RMS 45 3.4 1998 benno
82 no failure no RMS 18 3.4 2000 benno
83 no failure no RMS 10 3.6 2004 benno
84 no failure 1 RMS 33 50 3.4 2000 Mikeoupe
85 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 2001 Worzel
86 no failure 1 RMS 35 3.4 2002 green911
87 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 1999 JSS 911
88 1 failure 9 no RMS 9 3.6 2004 scamphor
89 1 failure 48 no RMS 3.4 2000 woogie
90 no failure 1 RMS 40 48 3.4 1999 Fiscracer
91 no failure no RMS 37 3.4 1999 Chauch
92 no failure no RMS 65 3.4 2001 fdeville
93 1 failure 130 2 RMS 130 3.4 2001 my996WASgreat
94 no failure no RMS 32 3.6 2002 Andy Meads
95 no failure no RMS 46 3.4 2001 JW911
96 no failure 1 RMS 80 3.4 1999 smartrepair
97 1 failure no RMS 3.6 2003 jules_s
98 no failure 1 RMS 110 120 3.4 2000 All2Chewy
99 no failure 3 RMS 41 3.6 2004 PJI
100 no failure no RMS 54 3.4 good grief
101 no failure no RMS 48 3.4 1997 1231
102 no failure 1 RMS 20 20 3.6 2004 mercurius
103 no failure no RMS 3.6 2003 jnd
104 no failure 1 RMS 48 70 3.4 2001 Naz 111
105 1 failure 46 no RMS 0 3.4 1999 Bigfoot769
106 no failure no RMS 58 3.4 2000 mentaldental
107 1 failure 50 no RMS 3.4 1999 roofrack996
Kay
Edited by tonikaram on Friday 28th March 14:42
Eric John said:
I am considering an 03 or 04 996 C4S for my next car when my lease on my 335i is up. Been doing some research here and needless to say I am concerned. Here in the U.S. these cars that are in my price range will most likely be out of warranty and if a warranty is available it will most likely be silly expensive. In anyone's opinion are the people having all of the problems w/ engine failures and RMS failures are these cars getting the snot driven out of them or are people having fun but not extreme/track stuff with them and this stuff happens to a certain percentage? If these failures happen out of warranty does Porsche do any good will? I can personally say that BMW of North America does much good will on engines, transmissions and differentials if the circumstances are right, I have worked in several different BMW dealerships and I know this is fact.
The specialists will soon come with scientific answers, but the fact is that the percentage (which, taking all the cars produced, should be somewhere between 5 and 10% in my humble opinion) of engine failures occured to people across the car-care range. Persons who maintained and pampered their cars, or those who roughed them up alike, those who drove alot or too little, all the same. No corrolation was ever determined.That being said, how do you like your 335? And did you have to do too many trips to dealerships to fix it?
Kay
noumenon said:
What makes you say 5-10%? I was at a well known independent late last year. On talking to their service manager, he says they see 2,000 cars a year and have replaced around 10 engines in the same time. Assuming that they replace engines on some cars that would normally be Porsche OPC serviced, that puts the ratio well under 0.5%
The answer is easy. Search for 996's on mobile.de and just count. If you don't speak German, click on the link below and count the cars that say "neuer motor" or "motorschaden" and scroll through the pages.http://suchen.mobile.de/fahrzeuge/searchresults.ht...
By just counting those that say it in the subject line only, I found 6 cars by page 7. That's 6/140 = 4.3%. I didn't read the ads, they could mention it inside but not on the subjet line. Finally, some of these may have replaced engines but the seller will only say it face to face, he prefers not to write it.
Therefore the real percentage is definitely higher than 4.3%.
Kay
Edited by tonikaram on Friday 11th April 12:26
noumenon said:
Indeed. And if you'd just forked out big money for a new engine, would you keep the car and love it still. Or would you be pissed off with it and stick it in the classifieds? Doubled by the fact that a lot of poeple can't really afford the repair and would have to sell the car to fund it. Most people would sell.
This is missing the many happy owners who don't have any issues. How do you account for those?
Most these cars had engine failures a long time ago, 20 or 30,000km ago if not more.. Check them (German unfortunately but you can tell)!This is missing the many happy owners who don't have any issues. How do you account for those?
It's also an argument that those who spend big buck on a new engine don't want to realize their loss by selling out, but rather continue now that the big bill has been paid.
It's true that this is just the cars on sale market, and doesn't account for the cars not on sale market. But hell, have you searched for others cars and found many that have a replaced engine on every 20-result page? I suspecet if you don't admit to a problem after this, you won't ever..
Kay
noumenon said:
Put these two observations together and the conclusion is that the indie will see a lot of the issues. Indeed not only in terms of volume, but also in the number of engines that it replaces compared to cars it services.
If an indie has 5 mechanics and those mechanics service / repair two cars a day for 200 working days a year, that's 2000 cars. No reason not to believe them. Assume they've been doing that for the last 10 years. That's a lot more cars than the 350 you refer to, or the 1518 on autotrader.
Who has the better picture, you or I with a few hours searching on the internet, or the indie service manager with many years experience of literally thousands of cars?
Ok, so you've spoken to an Indie? I have too and I can give you his name and number. He fixes cars but sells them as well and is primarily a car salesman. He has a slightly different opinion: he has simply boycotted pre-2000 996s from his sale garage. The engine loss has caused legal conflicts and woes and he simply won't carry them anymore or sell them.If an indie has 5 mechanics and those mechanics service / repair two cars a day for 200 working days a year, that's 2000 cars. No reason not to believe them. Assume they've been doing that for the last 10 years. That's a lot more cars than the 350 you refer to, or the 1518 on autotrader.
Who has the better picture, you or I with a few hours searching on the internet, or the indie service manager with many years experience of literally thousands of cars?
What's the real picture? Perhaps somewhere in between.
Kay
Edited by tonikaram on Friday 11th April 13:09
noumenon said:
Read this part of my post again:
I am not denying that there is an issue. I am saying that the way you are collecting and interpreting statistics is flawed. My brother is a quant at an investment bank. He agrees. What qualifies you to think otherwise?
noumenon, we know this thread is only studying forum users. And these contain a higher incidence of engine failures. This was established on page 1 (now page 19).I am not denying that there is an issue. I am saying that the way you are collecting and interpreting statistics is flawed. My brother is a quant at an investment bank. He agrees. What qualifies you to think otherwise?
This thread only deals with that. The link in mobile.de gives indications about the cars for sale, and the discussions and experience with owners we know reveals information about cars now being owned by happy individuals. Different angles of approach, and this thread is only for the first.
As an engineer I've had my share of university courses on probability and statitics but as an MBA you'll find alot of operations research, marketing, and others in my university book collection, so no need to run to your brother.
Kay
Bielle said:
my porsche 911 2002 just had an engine failure very similar to all of the engine failures described in this thread (1 week ago).
This forum seems to be confirming what my mechanic already mentioned about the unreliability of the 996 engine.
-B
Engine failure? never heard of that, you must be the 0.5 unhappy percent of the total 996 community that exists out there.This forum seems to be confirming what my mechanic already mentioned about the unreliability of the 996 engine.
-B
Signed,
noumenon (warning: that was a sarcastic post)
Edited by tonikaram on Monday 14th April 11:18
Gassing Station | 911/Carrera GT | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff