Boxster Spyder
Discussion
bcr5784 said:
kilarney said:
I guess your feeling the lower kerb weight of the spyder which is equivalent to a very hefty passenger plus the c of g is lower.
I suspect it isn't really that unless the Spyder genuinely doesn't have all those features (aircon, audio etc) which are ADD options (and EXCLUDED - reflected in the quoted weight) as opposed to those on the GT4 which are DELETE options (and INCLUDED in the quoted weight) When I last looked, spec for spec the Spyder only lost 11kg (as a result of the roof) - and given the extra weight of the engine, wheels brakes and tyres was probably HEAVIER than the equivalent Boxster. Spec for spec I very much doubt whether there is any significant weight difference between the Spyder and GT4 and any differences in feel are due to other factors.RE cofg 11kg up top really is down in the noise.
Another Porsche con...
Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 21st July 20:00
I dont see it as a con more a fact.
Fokker said:
kilarney said:
I guess your feeling the lower kerb weight of the spyder which is equivalent to a very hefty passenger plus the c of g is lower.
I doubt its to do with the weight and more to do with the skinnier rubber plus the less sticky tyres.The fun thing about the GT4 is that you can hurl it at a corner at silly speeds and it'll stick stick stick just like a go-kart.
The Spyder will I am sure feel less glued to the road and hence move about more.
kilarney said:
You have some complicated man maths going on there, heavier than the boxster ? GT4 is listed as 100kg more than spy so the deletes will be going some to close that. In my honda elise the supercharger spoilt the handling ok it was a 900kg car but it wasnt that high up and wasnt 11 kg so 11 kg vs a boxster plus the GT4 steel roof helps incrementally move the spy to feel different to the GT4 as noted by a number of lucky drivers.
I dont see it as a con more a fact.
Wrong info,GT4 official weight ex driver is 1340kg vs spyder at 1320kg makes a diff of 20kg,both of which can vary by 50kg either way depending on spec.A bare bones spyder with PCCB's,air-con and radio delete could potentially weigh 100kg less than a fully optioned steel braked and clubsport GT4.I mostly drive my GT4 now after running in with PASM in its hardest setting and i prefer it, possibly my PCCB's makes it acceptable?I dont see it as a con more a fact.
I didnt realise GT4 has PASM. Your 20kg numbers make more sense. Was passive only the SPY ?
My experience of mapping PASM on the GTS confirmed that only one setting is usually mapped correctly to the spring and chassis frequency and that other settings are a compromise. This meaning either under or over damped. In the GTS case I use map 1 for compliance and wet weather so some understeer dialled in (understeer and comfort go together on the 997), setting 2 was the correct one where I set it up as neutral and firmer, setting 3 was much firmer and for hot weather and smoother roads but still softer than pasm sport. Lots of nuances around this like a higher rising rate on vehicle speed.
Porsche did a good job on the GTS mapping but it can be improved. It doesnt surprise me you have settled on on one mode being correct for the GT4.
My experience of mapping PASM on the GTS confirmed that only one setting is usually mapped correctly to the spring and chassis frequency and that other settings are a compromise. This meaning either under or over damped. In the GTS case I use map 1 for compliance and wet weather so some understeer dialled in (understeer and comfort go together on the 997), setting 2 was the correct one where I set it up as neutral and firmer, setting 3 was much firmer and for hot weather and smoother roads but still softer than pasm sport. Lots of nuances around this like a higher rising rate on vehicle speed.
Porsche did a good job on the GTS mapping but it can be improved. It doesnt surprise me you have settled on on one mode being correct for the GT4.
These car are still fat my 987.2 is 1250kg ;-) and boy you can tell that over the R and GT4.
they quote the new 981 1320kg SPyder weight sans AC and hi-fi, most will have both putting it the same as the GT4 give or take a KG.
unless you went for street cool and added all the weight back in with a stty cage !!
Cayman R wheel fit straight onto the GT4 so if you want it to move about you can just fit the 19" R wheels or 981 Spyder wheels if you want 20"
The R wheels give you a bit more go though like having shorter gearing ;-)
The GT4 fun is the grip though, I can pull >1.3G on the road in mine and that feels exciting and gives passengers a shock reaching for something to hold onto :-).
The 987.2 Spyder is still the purest drive though, with the better feel and lighter weight and an engine which has no issue buzzing the red line.
People are really missing out if they like driving rather than owning trophy cars or playing the flipping game.
they quote the new 981 1320kg SPyder weight sans AC and hi-fi, most will have both putting it the same as the GT4 give or take a KG.
unless you went for street cool and added all the weight back in with a stty cage !!
Cayman R wheel fit straight onto the GT4 so if you want it to move about you can just fit the 19" R wheels or 981 Spyder wheels if you want 20"
The R wheels give you a bit more go though like having shorter gearing ;-)
The GT4 fun is the grip though, I can pull >1.3G on the road in mine and that feels exciting and gives passengers a shock reaching for something to hold onto :-).
The 987.2 Spyder is still the purest drive though, with the better feel and lighter weight and an engine which has no issue buzzing the red line.
People are really missing out if they like driving rather than owning trophy cars or playing the flipping game.
Edited by Porsche911R on Friday 22 July 08:32
kilarney said:
You have some complicated man maths going on there, heavier than the boxster ? GT4 is listed as 100kg more than spy so the deletes will be going some to close that. In my honda elise the supercharger spoilt the handling ok it was a 900kg car but it wasnt that high up and wasnt 11 kg so 11 kg vs a boxster plus the GT4 steel roof helps incrementally move the spy to feel different to the GT4 as noted by a number of lucky drivers.
I dont see it as a con more a fact.
Well the roof saves 11kg - there are no other weight savings on the Spyder (the usual 54 litre tank makes the quoted weight 7kg lighter - but that is an oft repeated con by Porsche) In all other respects the Spyder is heavier spec for spec - engine/wheels/brakes than the standard GTS. How it really manages to be 100kg lighter than a GT4 really does require some man maths. The Spyder has always been marketed as light weight - and to some extent that was true of the 987 Spyder - but isn't true of the 981, it's just a con. I dont see it as a con more a fact.
Just compare the standard specs of the Spyder with other 981s - then add in the extra weight of fuel, seats, aircon, stereo and then imagine the extra weight of the engine (6kg) wheels and tyres and you will come to the same conclusion as I did - the quoted weight may be "correct" but it's decidedly misleading.
Edited by bcr5784 on Friday 22 July 09:06
Taffy66 said:
Wrong info,GT4 official weight ex driver is 1340kg vs spyder at 1320kg makes a diff of 20kg,both of which can vary by 50kg either way depending on spec.A bare bones spyder with PCCB's,air-con and radio delete could potentially weigh 100kg less than a fully optioned steel braked and clubsport GT4.I mostly drive my GT4 now after running in with PASM in its hardest setting and i prefer it, possibly my PCCB's makes it acceptable?
John how are you mate? Sorry to go off thread but are you going to the concours event at Cottrell park on Sunday?Edited by Fokker on Friday 22 July 15:18
Fokker said:
John how are you mate? Sorry to go off thread but are you going to the concours event at Cottrell park on Sunday?
I've a particularly hard slog to get through tomorrow,if my weary,worn out 50yr old body will recover in time i might see you there.Failing that have a great day and those red ringed,black numbers you periodically see on road signs are maximum legal speeds and NOT minimum!;)Always ready with a friendly bit of adviceEdited by Fokker on Friday 22 July 15:18
RSVP911 said:
kilarney said:
I probably define the spyder demographic. I have swapped my 997 GTS manual (which was for keeps) for a spyder with negligible miles. It was a difficult decision but I already realise its the right one for me. Will i miss the GTS oh yes having optimised the DSC PASM module over 6 months I can tell you its even more incredible.
In simple terms the spy makes me smile more and thats it. Very different drives as GTS is grown up and a fantastic every day drive the spy more of a high days and holidays machine which is how I use it. If you have owned a lotus it isnt hardcore. All this talk about steering feel is over egged as Im a many times Lotus owner and to all intents one normalises to the steering feel which is plenty good enough.
I believe the spy may drop a little further on values but low numbers and all the superlatives which I wont repeat will win through plus the 718 factor mean its going to be desirable well into the future.
I wouldnt want a GT4 anymore than I wanted a GT3 when buying the GTS, lets just say it comes with age and giving up the track scene.
As folk are fixated on flipping and depreciation it cost me £8k over its invoiced cost.
Welcome to the club - you've bought a brilliant car there - any photos to share ? In simple terms the spy makes me smile more and thats it. Very different drives as GTS is grown up and a fantastic every day drive the spy more of a high days and holidays machine which is how I use it. If you have owned a lotus it isnt hardcore. All this talk about steering feel is over egged as Im a many times Lotus owner and to all intents one normalises to the steering feel which is plenty good enough.
I believe the spy may drop a little further on values but low numbers and all the superlatives which I wont repeat will win through plus the 718 factor mean its going to be desirable well into the future.
I wouldnt want a GT4 anymore than I wanted a GT3 when buying the GTS, lets just say it comes with age and giving up the track scene.
As folk are fixated on flipping and depreciation it cost me £8k over its invoiced cost.
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