Discussion
I'm surprised more people havent specced PCCBs on the GTS. When I did a little configurator car the options was only 4k? I know "only" 4k is still 4k but they are utterly transformative. Looks like I missed the boat but might be one to watch out for when my 987 is knocking on. Love the shape of the 981.
They were a £4977 option from memory, certainly pushing £5k.
I didn't spec them as I don't want to have to pay £several_k to replace a pair of disks and pads if a disk gets damaged. Also, I have PTV which I believe wears the rear brakes more than usual so again there is a cost consideration (pads only for PCCBs obviously). Finally, as the stock steels are smaller, there's no massive unsprung weight saving to be gained (unlike on the GT4).
Basically, on a £60k car, I didn't think the extra 8% of the cost of the car was worth it - especially given the damage replacement price.
I didn't spec them as I don't want to have to pay £several_k to replace a pair of disks and pads if a disk gets damaged. Also, I have PTV which I believe wears the rear brakes more than usual so again there is a cost consideration (pads only for PCCBs obviously). Finally, as the stock steels are smaller, there's no massive unsprung weight saving to be gained (unlike on the GT4).
Basically, on a £60k car, I didn't think the extra 8% of the cost of the car was worth it - especially given the damage replacement price.
Cblair246 said:
So gents what's the consensus on the fitting, looks and long term for the Zunsport grills? I like the look of them but have heard a few conflicting comments so far.
See my little Zunsport review, here: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&a...fridaypassion said:
I'm surprised more people havent specced PCCBs on the GTS. When I did a little configurator car the options was only 4k? I know "only" 4k is still 4k but they are utterly transformative. Looks like I missed the boat but might be one to watch out for when my 987 is knocking on. Love the shape of the 981.
Guilty as charged!! Yes a hugely expensive option, I imagined I felt a difference in steering sharpness, suspension comfort and brake pedal feel when I drove PCCB and cast iron equipped cars back to back at Silverstone but purely in ££ couldn't hand on hard justify the costs. But, they don't rust, no brake dust, and they look fantastic!fridaypassion said:
I'm surprised more people havent specced PCCBs on the GTS. When I did a little configurator car the options was only 4k? I know "only" 4k is still 4k but they are utterly transformative. Looks like I missed the boat but might be one to watch out for when my 987 is knocking on. Love the shape of the 981.
Frankly I can't see anyone needing them outside the track - and on the track they are a financial liability. And from anything I've read (or personal experience) at any sensible ROAD speed the cast iron brakes are every bit as effective. I know the unsprung weight argument - but it's effect is grossly overstated IMO, and completely ignores the significant difference in tyre weights. And do yellow calipers look any better than red? Depends entirely on the colour of your car. The market seems to agree - with PCCBs commanding little premium secondhand.
All down to personal preference. I found that I was spending a fortune on new steel discs every 2 years as they were corroding (according to the OPC)
Drove CGTS at PEC on steels and PCCB and I preferred the pedal feel with PCCB.
I intend to keep my car for years so hopefully cost neutral in my case.
Other advantages are improved aesthetics of the bigger discs and no dust. I am not a proficient enough driver to notice lower unsprung mass!
Drove CGTS at PEC on steels and PCCB and I preferred the pedal feel with PCCB.
I intend to keep my car for years so hopefully cost neutral in my case.
Other advantages are improved aesthetics of the bigger discs and no dust. I am not a proficient enough driver to notice lower unsprung mass!
bcr5784 said:
Frankly I can't see anyone needing them outside the track - and on the track they are a financial liability. And from anything I've read (or personal experience) at any sensible ROAD speed the cast iron brakes are every bit as effective. I know the unsprung weight argument - but it's effect is grossly overstated IMO, and completely ignores the significant difference in tyre weights. And do yellow calipers look any better than red? Depends entirely on the colour of your car. The market seems to agree - with PCCBs commanding little premium secondhand.
The PCCBs are vastly better in terms of feel and stopping power. Crucially they utterly transform the steering. As in make the car feel totally different night and day. The standard brakes have a poor peddle feel. PCCBs offer better initial bite and far better modulation. I know on here its all about defending your own corner etc but if you flick back through my other posts in the Porsche forums I will only give unbiased and unblinkered opinion on here. I did bin a Cayman R to get back into my car because PCCBs amongst other things its just better (flame suit permanently donned anyway)
I had all the above listed reservations when I initially bought my car but having had this car and owned/driven 4 other Caymans in between including the Cayman R I can confirm you are deluding yourself if you think you are doing yourself any kind of favour by not having ceramic brakes. I understand they are not something common to come across in used cars but if you see one thats PCCB equipped check the discs out and stick some money in the bank for pads. If the worst happens you have some nice 6 piston calipers that will maintain the better modulation and bite even with steelies.
If I was looking at a new Cayman as I briefly did the GTS if the option was double the £4700 quoted on the configurator it would still be worth it. I say this as a confirmed tight fisted Northerner. thats how much of a difference they make.
Traded in a Boxster 981s for her, a brilliant car, but everything, so far, just feels a little bit better.
Turn in, ride, noise etc etc it's all just a little bit better. The colour is stunning in the metal absolute class.
I can't wit to get a bit of dry weather to really open the taps.
You'll love it.
The only downside was seeing a sapphire blue GT4 this morning reminding me I need to work a little harder!
Turn in, ride, noise etc etc it's all just a little bit better. The colour is stunning in the metal absolute class.
I can't wit to get a bit of dry weather to really open the taps.
You'll love it.
The only downside was seeing a sapphire blue GT4 this morning reminding me I need to work a little harder!
fridaypassion said:
bcr5784 said:
Frankly I can't see anyone needing them outside the track - and on the track they are a financial liability. And from anything I've read (or personal experience) at any sensible ROAD speed the cast iron brakes are every bit as effective. I know the unsprung weight argument - but it's effect is grossly overstated IMO, and completely ignores the significant difference in tyre weights. And do yellow calipers look any better than red? Depends entirely on the colour of your car. The market seems to agree - with PCCBs commanding little premium secondhand.
The PCCBs are vastly better in terms of feel and stopping power. Crucially they utterly transform the steering. As in make the car feel totally different night and day. The standard brakes have a poor peddle feel. PCCBs offer better initial bite and far better modulation. I know on here its all about defending your own corner etc but if you flick back through my other posts in the Porsche forums I will only give unbiased and unblinkered opinion on here. I did bin a Cayman R to get back into my car because PCCBs amongst other things its just better (flame suit permanently donned anyway)
I had all the above listed reservations when I initially bought my car but having had this car and owned/driven 4 other Caymans in between including the Cayman R I can confirm you are deluding yourself if you think you are doing yourself any kind of favour by not having ceramic brakes. I understand they are not something common to come across in used cars but if you see one thats PCCB equipped check the discs out and stick some money in the bank for pads. If the worst happens you have some nice 6 piston calipers that will maintain the better modulation and bite even with steelies.
If I was looking at a new Cayman as I briefly did the GTS if the option was double the £4700 quoted on the configurator it would still be worth it. I say this as a confirmed tight fisted Northerner. thats how much of a difference they make.
I have never driven a car with ceramics but after much internal debate over their value and the risks, I went back to my OPC and changed my order to have them. Here in Australia they are $18K (9k gbp). I am not worried about accelerated PTV wear as I won't be tracking the car very often, it will be a daily drive and weekend highland fling car. They look fantastic too, but they should for the price.
fridaypassion said:
The PCCBs are vastly better in terms of feel and stopping power. Crucially they utterly transform the steering. As in make the car feel totally different night and day. The standard brakes have a poor peddle feel. PCCBs offer better initial bite and far better modulation.
I know on here its all about defending your own corner etc but if you flick back through my other posts in the Porsche forums I will only give unbiased and unblinkered opinion on here. I did bin a Cayman R to get back into my car because PCCBs amongst other things its just better (flame suit permanently donned anyway)
I had all the above listed reservations when I initially bought my car but having had this car and owned/driven 4 other Caymans in between including the Cayman R I can confirm you are deluding yourself if you think you are doing yourself any kind of favour by not having ceramic brakes. I understand they are not something common to come across in used cars but if you see one thats PCCB equipped check the discs out and stick some money in the bank for pads. If the worst happens you have some nice 6 piston calipers that will maintain the better modulation and bite even with steelies.
If I was looking at a new Cayman as I briefly did the GTS if the option was double the £4700 quoted on the configurator it would still be worth it. I say this as a confirmed tight fisted Northerner. thats how much of a difference they make.
I completely agree with the above and that's why I have picked them for my CGTSI know on here its all about defending your own corner etc but if you flick back through my other posts in the Porsche forums I will only give unbiased and unblinkered opinion on here. I did bin a Cayman R to get back into my car because PCCBs amongst other things its just better (flame suit permanently donned anyway)
I had all the above listed reservations when I initially bought my car but having had this car and owned/driven 4 other Caymans in between including the Cayman R I can confirm you are deluding yourself if you think you are doing yourself any kind of favour by not having ceramic brakes. I understand they are not something common to come across in used cars but if you see one thats PCCB equipped check the discs out and stick some money in the bank for pads. If the worst happens you have some nice 6 piston calipers that will maintain the better modulation and bite even with steelies.
If I was looking at a new Cayman as I briefly did the GTS if the option was double the £4700 quoted on the configurator it would still be worth it. I say this as a confirmed tight fisted Northerner. thats how much of a difference they make.
Prestonese said:
Hear hear on ceramics. They look great. And Guards Red is awesome too....
I'd disagree on the colour, my choice would be Voodoo / Rivera / Mexico Blue but failing that it would be Carrara White Metallic. 
Edited by AndyCGTS on Saturday 16th April 10:28
fridaypassion said:
The PCCBs are vastly better in terms of feel and stopping power. Crucially they utterly transform the steering. As in make the car feel totally different night and day. The standard brakes have a poor peddle feel. PCCBs offer better initial bite and far better modulation.
Vastly better stopping power? http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-power-to-... did 35 stops at 20 second intervals in succession(!) from 100 miles an hour with cast iron and ceramics (on 911s) before they got fed up with trying to find differences in stopping power. Utterly transform the steering - given that tyre weight has a much greater gyroscopic effect (because of the distance from the hub) than brakes, I think any transformation in the steering is more likely caused by other factors - tyre brand in particular or (to some extent) wheel size.
Better initial bite is something I REALLY don't want - the brakes are far too light anyway, whether you H&T or LFB.
A reduction in unsprung weight is always a good thing - but you have to put it in perspective - a wheel and tyre is around 25kg, not sure about the moving bits of strut, and other suspension bit, but perhaps the same. And then the brakes and calipers. So a 7kg (I believe) reduction in brake weight - perhaps 10% or so of the total per corner, useful though it is, is unlikely to have a dramatic effect. Lets put it this way I'd bet you'd get close to that reduction just by choosing the right wheel and tyre combination - and who even asks what the wheels weigh?
I've nothing against ceramics - I spent a half day at PEC with them, and they are very good, but so are the cast irons I drove there with. Finally my instructor (a regular racer who is a family friend) was rather dismissive of them and thought they were only of value on the track (when the cost argument comes into play).
Just my take - but I've no idea how well the car stops from 175mph and am unlikely ever to find out.
Having owned a car with them, I wouldnt pay for them, but nice to have.
As you say, they dont improve stopping performance they just dont go off on the track. I went to Bedford Autodrome and the brakes could have gone all day (shame the tyres couldn't!)
You'd never tell the difference in unsprung weight without back to back comparison.
Another nice benefit is they last longer (and the pads) and the wheels dont get nearly as much brake residue on them.
As you say, they dont improve stopping performance they just dont go off on the track. I went to Bedford Autodrome and the brakes could have gone all day (shame the tyres couldn't!)
You'd never tell the difference in unsprung weight without back to back comparison.
Another nice benefit is they last longer (and the pads) and the wheels dont get nearly as much brake residue on them.
bcr5784 said:
Vastly better stopping power? http://www.caranddriver.com/features/the-power-to-... did 35 stops at 20 second intervals in succession(!) from 100 miles an hour with cast iron and ceramics (on 911s) before they got fed up with trying to find differences in stopping power.
Utterly transform the steering - given that tyre weight has a much greater gyroscopic effect (because of the distance from the hub) than brakes, I think any transformation in the steering is more likely caused by other factors - tyre brand in particular or (to some extent) wheel size.
Better initial bite is something I REALLY don't want - the brakes are far too light anyway, whether you H&T or LFB.
A reduction in unsprung weight is always a good thing - but you have to put it in perspective - a wheel and tyre is around 25kg, not sure about the moving bits of strut, and other suspension bit, but perhaps the same. And then the brakes and calipers. So a 7kg (I believe) reduction in brake weight - perhaps 10% or so of the total per corner, useful though it is, is unlikely to have a dramatic effect. Lets put it this way I'd bet you'd get close to that reduction just by choosing the right wheel and tyre combination - and who even asks what the wheels weigh?
I've nothing against ceramics - I spent a half day at PEC with them, and they are very good, but so are the cast irons I drove there with. Finally my instructor (a regular racer who is a family friend) was rather dismissive of them and thought they were only of value on the track (when the cost argument comes into play).
Just my take - but I've no idea how well the car stops from 175mph and am unlikely ever to find out.
I only report my own personal feedback which is more than half a day.Utterly transform the steering - given that tyre weight has a much greater gyroscopic effect (because of the distance from the hub) than brakes, I think any transformation in the steering is more likely caused by other factors - tyre brand in particular or (to some extent) wheel size.
Better initial bite is something I REALLY don't want - the brakes are far too light anyway, whether you H&T or LFB.
A reduction in unsprung weight is always a good thing - but you have to put it in perspective - a wheel and tyre is around 25kg, not sure about the moving bits of strut, and other suspension bit, but perhaps the same. And then the brakes and calipers. So a 7kg (I believe) reduction in brake weight - perhaps 10% or so of the total per corner, useful though it is, is unlikely to have a dramatic effect. Lets put it this way I'd bet you'd get close to that reduction just by choosing the right wheel and tyre combination - and who even asks what the wheels weigh?
I've nothing against ceramics - I spent a half day at PEC with them, and they are very good, but so are the cast irons I drove there with. Finally my instructor (a regular racer who is a family friend) was rather dismissive of them and thought they were only of value on the track (when the cost argument comes into play).
Just my take - but I've no idea how well the car stops from 175mph and am unlikely ever to find out.
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