Cayman GTS

[Mario149]

Twinfan said:

I personally think the X73 looks like a lowered boy racer aftermarket job and not inkeeping with the rest of the car. You need the larger brakes, spoilers and splitters etc of a GT car for it to look "right" IMHO. I also think it's decidedly low rent on a modern Porsche, active suspension is superior as proven in F1 some years ago.

I'm well aware I'm in the minority on here with my thinking though

I'm a fan of PASM as well, but there's at least one chap on here who races or used to race Carrera Cup cars and who wouldn't touch PASM with a bargepole on track as it takes away the last n-th of control at the limit. F1 system you are talking about may be different though.

All that said, for regular people on sporty road cars, I think PASM is a good option, Love how you can change the character of the car. And it's never seemed to hold me back on track

[bcr5784]

I can certainly see that the dynamic choices PASM makes could compromise it a bit on the track. Much like an automatic transmission - it won't always make the right choices. On the other hand, PASM is programmable (and I've certainly seen one company claiming to produce better settings than Porsche) and there is no reason why you couldn't have a number of fixed settings adjusted by the driver. I could see that being a significant plus both in testing and in wet but drying conditions (soft in the wet and getting stiffer as it dries). In any case it's rarely possible to get a suspension setting which works for every bend on the track and the ability to change it for particular corners would be a boon. (as F1 drivers do with diff settings for different corners)

As you say though, on the road it simply gives the car a breadth of ability that wouldn't be available with fixed damping - and get's it right a large proportion of the time. The only time I find it really gets caught out is in Normal after a period of "cruising" (say stuck in a queue of traffic) if you then pull out sharply to overtake the damping is too soft and the car feels "floaty". But it easy to circumvent - put it in Sport when you think an overtaking opportunity is coming up.

[Mario149]

From what I understand the issue with PASM on track isn't whether it's too soft/hard etc, it's that the car is constantly adjusting the damping whatever setting it is in (normal/sport etc) meaning that as you approach the limit, the limit is subtly "moving" all the time

[JayK12]

X73 - Road/Track/Looks for me hands down, wouldn't by a GTS without it.

I've seen Porsche Tewkesbury advertising a Boxster GTS saying "A future classic" and "Widely acclaimed to the sweet-spot in the accredited Boxster 981 range, the GTS manages to combine the awesome performance and sound of the 330bhp - 3.4 litre flat-six with sharp handling and stunning visual packaging. Now one of the rarest and sought-after models in Porsche's Approved range"

I think we all know the CGTS & BGTS do hit that sweet spot. I was close to moving to a Spyder but I just cannot be bothered with the manual roof.

[bcr5784]

Mario149 said:

From what I understand the issue with PASM on track isn't whether it's too soft/hard etc, it's that the car is constantly adjusting the damping whatever setting it is in (normal/sport etc) meaning that as you approach the limit, the limit is subtly "moving" all the time

That's what I was saying about "dynamic" choices. But, like I say it could be programmed with fixed settings.

[Twinfan]

Road surfaces and driving style change all the time during a journey - PASM adjusts to suit.

Track surfaces are pretty consistent compared to roads and driving style is constantly full bore. X73 with its fixed settings would be a better match for mainly track use in my opinion.

It was interesting what Porsche did with the press cars fitting most of them with the X73 suspension option. The cynic in me thinks they had a bunch of parts they needed using up before they switched to S-PASM for the 718.....

[Mario149]

bcr5784 said:

Mario149 said:

From what I understand the issue with PASM on track isn't whether it's too soft/hard etc, it's that the car is constantly adjusting the damping whatever setting it is in (normal/sport etc) meaning that as you approach the limit, the limit is subtly "moving" all the time

That's what I was saying about "dynamic" choices. But, like I say it could be programmed with fixed settings.

Apologies, I misread your post...bloody Monday morning syndrome!

[Mario149]

JayK12 said:

X73 - Road/Track/Looks for me hands down, wouldn't by a GTS without it.

I've seen Porsche Tewkesbury advertising a Boxster GTS saying "A future classic" and "Widely acclaimed to the sweet-spot in the accredited Boxster 981 range, the GTS manages to combine the awesome performance and sound of the 330bhp - 3.4 litre flat-six with sharp handling and stunning visual packaging. Now one of the rarest and sought-after models in Porsche's Approved range"

I think we all know the CGTS & BGTS do hit that sweet spot. I was close to moving to a Spyder but I just cannot be bothered with the manual roof.

The Spyder is a tricky one for me. Putting aside the extra cost for the moment, I do love the concept. "Problems" for me are:

1) is it still suffers from the long gearing in manual form.
2) for a more road biased car (as opposed to the GT4) the engine isn't particularly different in character (just more power everywhere basically) which the car does not really need for the road. The whole Spyder idea to me screams "more fun!" rather than "more speed!". That said, had they decided to squeeze 370bhp out of the 3.4 with say a shorter final drive, that would have been magic
3) the 987 Spyder. At current 981 Spyder prices, the 987 Spyder seems like a bargain. Sure the toys aren't quite as modern, but if you're in the market for a Spyder I'd argue you're probably not too fussed about what gen of PCM you have in the car. Add in the 987's HPAS and really in terms of the 981 you're paying a £30K premium for 50bhp more but worse steering

[JayK12]

Mario149 said:

JayK12 said:

X73 - Road/Track/Looks for me hands down, wouldn't by a GTS without it.

I've seen Porsche Tewkesbury advertising a Boxster GTS saying "A future classic" and "Widely acclaimed to the sweet-spot in the accredited Boxster 981 range, the GTS manages to combine the awesome performance and sound of the 330bhp - 3.4 litre flat-six with sharp handling and stunning visual packaging. Now one of the rarest and sought-after models in Porsche's Approved range"

I think we all know the CGTS & BGTS do hit that sweet spot. I was close to moving to a Spyder but I just cannot be bothered with the manual roof.

The Spyder is a tricky one for me. Putting aside the extra cost for the moment, I do love the concept. "Problems" for me are:

1) is it still suffers from the long gearing in manual form.
2) for a more road biased car (as opposed to the GT4) the engine isn't particularly different in character (just more power everywhere basically) which the car does not really need for the road. The whole Spyder idea to me screams "more fun!" rather than "more speed!". That said, had they decided to squeeze 370bhp out of the 3.4 with say a shorter final drive, that would have been magic
3) the 987 Spyder. At current 981 Spyder prices, the 987 Spyder seems like a bargain. Sure the toys aren't quite as modern, but if you're in the market for a Spyder I'd argue you're probably not too fussed about what gen of PCM you have in the car. Add in the 987's HPAS and really in terms of the 981 you're paying a £30K premium for 50bhp more but worse steering

Agree, really wish the gearing was shorter.
I did watch a Video of a PDK GTS vs a GT4 from standstill and there really isn't much in it.
I just prefer the 981, but I can image the fun factor maybe higher in the 987 Spyder.

Was sat in a GT4 at my local OPC on the weekend, the temptation is really high, however I think its just cause Im not using my GTS right now, come summer I'll want the top off. GT4 looks, feels awesome. Wish my GTS had buckets, but they are so expensive retro-fit, maybe something to do, a Spyder steering wheel would be nice too.

Oh Jens sent me a price back to take the 3.4 to 370hp, its Circa £6900. But the GT4 can go to 425hp with £5000.

[cypriot]

Mario149 said:

The Spyder is a tricky one for me. Putting aside the extra cost for the moment, I do love the concept. "Problems" for me are:

1) is it still suffers from the long gearing in manual form.
2) for a more road biased car (as opposed to the GT4) the engine isn't particularly different in character (just more power everywhere basically) which the car does not really need for the road. The whole Spyder idea to me screams "more fun!" rather than "more speed!". That said, had they decided to squeeze 370bhp out of the 3.4 with say a shorter final drive, that would have been magic
3) the 987 Spyder. At current 981 Spyder prices, the 987 Spyder seems like a bargain. Sure the toys aren't quite as modern, but if you're in the market for a Spyder I'd argue you're probably not too fussed about what gen of PCM you have in the car. Add in the 987's HPAS and really in terms of the 981 you're paying a £30K premium for 50bhp more but worse steering

I moved from a CGTS with PASM to a 981 Spyder, so I might be able to give you an insight to the differences. The spyder feels quite a bit faster than the CGTS. It can easily overwhelm its rear tyres in second gear with you hit 5k rpm. That never happened in the CGTS. The ride of the spyder is of course the x73 suspension which I find to be a little too stiff, especially when in town. Preferred the PASM tbh. The biggest difference in terms of driving is actually the steering. The spyder has a lighter steering, and the smaller steering rack makes the spyder a pleasure to drive. I found the steering really suits english a/b roads, as you have to put in less steering as compared to the CGTS. And it may just be my imagination, but I feel as though I get slightly more feedback from the steering in the spyder. Not lots more, just a tad. We are in agreement with the gearing, however in the spyder with far less sound deadening, the experience is so much more intense going at 6/10ths, that you don't always get annoyed at the long gearing. In other words, it feels and sounds so much more exciting at 4/5k rpm that you still end up smiling like an idiot without having to
go crazy. In the CGTS, you get the same only at higher rpms which just accentuates the gearing problem. Taking the roof off and hearing the noise is just the cherry on the cake. The sound is epic, and different from the 3.4l unit. Both fantastic cars though and I must say that if I had to choose one that I would be using for some daily duties, I would take the CGTS in a heartbeat over a spyder. Its substantially cheaper (now), has parking sensors, less compromised, and I didnt stress out as much when driving/parking out on the public roads. For a weekend toy, the spyder wins hands down. I can't comment on a 987 as I haven't driven one. Hope that helps.

[Mario149]

JayK12 said:

Agree, really wish the gearing was shorter.
I did watch a Video of a PDK GTS vs a GT4 from standstill and there really isn't much in it.
I just prefer the 981, but I can image the fun factor maybe higher in the 987 Spyder.

Was sat in a GT4 at my local OPC on the weekend, the temptation is really high, however I think its just cause Im not using my GTS right now, come summer I'll want the top off. GT4 looks, feels awesome. Wish my GTS had buckets, but they are so expensive retro-fit, maybe something to do, a Spyder steering wheel would be nice too.

Oh Jens sent me a price back to take the 3.4 to 370hp, its Circa £6900. But the GT4 can go to 425hp with £5000.

I imagine you could get close to that figure with a 987 Spyder, best of both worlds then!

[Mario149]

cypriot said:

Mario149 said:

The Spyder is a tricky one for me. Putting aside the extra cost for the moment, I do love the concept. "Problems" for me are:

1) is it still suffers from the long gearing in manual form.
2) for a more road biased car (as opposed to the GT4) the engine isn't particularly different in character (just more power everywhere basically) which the car does not really need for the road. The whole Spyder idea to me screams "more fun!" rather than "more speed!". That said, had they decided to squeeze 370bhp out of the 3.4 with say a shorter final drive, that would have been magic
3) the 987 Spyder. At current 981 Spyder prices, the 987 Spyder seems like a bargain. Sure the toys aren't quite as modern, but if you're in the market for a Spyder I'd argue you're probably not too fussed about what gen of PCM you have in the car. Add in the 987's HPAS and really in terms of the 981 you're paying a £30K premium for 50bhp more but worse steering

I moved from a CGTS with PASM to a 981 Spyder, so I might be able to give you an insight to the differences. The spyder feels quite a bit faster than the CGTS. It can easily overwhelm its rear tyres in second gear with you hit 5k rpm. That never happened in the CGTS. The ride of the spyder is of course the x73 suspension which I find to be a little too stiff, especially when in town. Preferred the PASM tbh. The biggest difference in terms of driving is actually the steering. The spyder has a lighter steering, and the smaller steering rack makes the spyder a pleasure to drive. I found the steering really suits english a/b roads, as you have to put in less steering as compared to the CGTS. And it may just be my imagination, but I feel as though I get slightly more feedback from the steering in the spyder. Not lots more, just a tad. We are in agreement with the gearing, however in the spyder with far less sound deadening, the experience is so much more intense going at 6/10ths, that you don't always get annoyed at the long gearing. In other words, it feels and sounds so much more exciting at 4/5k rpm that you still end up smiling like an idiot without having to
go crazy. In the CGTS, you get the same only at higher rpms which just accentuates the gearing problem. Taking the roof off and hearing the noise is just the cherry on the cake. The sound is epic, and different from the 3.4l unit. Both fantastic cars though and I must say that if I had to choose one that I would be using for some daily duties, I would take the CGTS in a heartbeat over a spyder. Its substantially cheaper (now), has parking sensors, less compromised, and I didnt stress out as much when driving/parking out on the public roads. For a weekend toy, the spyder wins hands down. I can't comment on a 987 as I haven't driven one. Hope that helps.

Interesting insight, thanks.

[JayK12]

cypriot said:

Mario149 said:

The Spyder is a tricky one for me. Putting aside the extra cost for the moment, I do love the concept. "Problems" for me are:

1) is it still suffers from the long gearing in manual form.
2) for a more road biased car (as opposed to the GT4) the engine isn't particularly different in character (just more power everywhere basically) which the car does not really need for the road. The whole Spyder idea to me screams "more fun!" rather than "more speed!". That said, had they decided to squeeze 370bhp out of the 3.4 with say a shorter final drive, that would have been magic
3) the 987 Spyder. At current 981 Spyder prices, the 987 Spyder seems like a bargain. Sure the toys aren't quite as modern, but if you're in the market for a Spyder I'd argue you're probably not too fussed about what gen of PCM you have in the car. Add in the 987's HPAS and really in terms of the 981 you're paying a £30K premium for 50bhp more but worse steering

I moved from a CGTS with PASM to a 981 Spyder, so I might be able to give you an insight to the differences. The spyder feels quite a bit faster than the CGTS. It can easily overwhelm its rear tyres in second gear with you hit 5k rpm. That never happened in the CGTS. The ride of the spyder is of course the x73 suspension which I find to be a little too stiff, especially when in town. Preferred the PASM tbh. The biggest difference in terms of driving is actually the steering. The spyder has a lighter steering, and the smaller steering rack makes the spyder a pleasure to drive. I found the steering really suits english a/b roads, as you have to put in less steering as compared to the CGTS. And it may just be my imagination, but I feel as though I get slightly more feedback from the steering in the spyder. Not lots more, just a tad. We are in agreement with the gearing, however in the spyder with far less sound deadening, the experience is so much more intense going at 6/10ths, that you don't always get annoyed at the long gearing. In other words, it feels and sounds so much more exciting at 4/5k rpm that you still end up smiling like an idiot without having to
go crazy. In the CGTS, you get the same only at higher rpms which just accentuates the gearing problem. Taking the roof off and hearing the noise is just the cherry on the cake. The sound is epic, and different from the 3.4l unit. Both fantastic cars though and I must say that if I had to choose one that I would be using for some daily duties, I would take the CGTS in a heartbeat over a spyder. Its substantially cheaper (now), has parking sensors, less compromised, and I didnt stress out as much when driving/parking out on the public roads. For a weekend toy, the spyder wins hands down. I can't comment on a 987 as I haven't driven one. Hope that helps.

Just the roof is a put off for me, I've been on plenty of drives in my BGTS where I've had the roof of then put it up for a motorway, or when there is a light shower, then a few seconds to take it off again. Was really good when on the NC500 to stop and put it up when it started raining would have ment getting soaked and stopping the whole group 13 cars, then after the shower taking it of again. BGTS Manual + X73 + Buckets but with 370hp might be the ultimate, otherwise id probably skip the spider and go GT4 / GT3.

[Mario149]

JayK12 said:

Just the roof is a put off for me, I've been on plenty of drives in my BGTS where I've had the roof of then put it up for a motorway, or when there is a light shower, then a few seconds to take it off again. Was really good when on the NC500 to stop and put it up when it started raining would have ment getting soaked and stopping the whole group 13 cars, then after the shower taking it of again. BGTS Manual + X73 + Buckets but with 370hp might be the ultimate, otherwise id probably skip the spider and go GT4 / GT3.

Pah! So long as you stay above 35mph or so you're fine with the roof down I once drove from Newquay to inside the M25 in an S2000 through a thunderstorm with the roof down and was dry until I hit my first set of red lights at Epsom!

[NBTBRV8]

Twinfan said:

Road surfaces and driving style change all the time during a journey - PASM adjusts to suit.

Track surfaces are pretty consistent compared to roads and driving style is constantly full bore. X73 with its fixed settings would be a better match for mainly track use in my opinion.

It was interesting what Porsche did with the press cars fitting most of them with the X73 suspension option. The cynic in me thinks they had a bunch of parts they needed using up before they switched to S-PASM for the 718.....

Porsche know exactly what they are doing when they spec cars for the press. They would have specced them with X73 as the press core are driving enthusiasts who look for the finer details rather than Joe Average.

[Twinfan]

True, buckets/manual/X73 seemed to be the combo they chose but for me it pushes the car too much towards a track focus and there's the GT4 for that...

[AndyCGTS]

Twinfan said:

True, buckets/manual/X73 seemed to be the combo they chose but for me it pushes the car too much towards a track focus and there's the GT4 for that...

I'd vote that buckets/pdk/X73 is the way to go.

[Twinfan]

Each to their own, of course!

Buckets weren't available when I ordered mine, but I would have chosen the folding ones (so I could heat them) if I could have done. That's the only thing I would change with my spec.

[AndyCGTS]

Twinfan said:

Each to their own, of course!

Buckets weren't available when I ordered mine, but I would have chosen the folding ones (so I could heat them) if I could have done. That's the only thing I would change with my spec.

Agreed!

The only bucket seats available on the 981 GTS where the folding ones and to be honest with the alcantara inlays on the seats I've found you never really need the heated seats.

[Mario149]

Twinfan said:

Each to their own, of course!

Buckets weren't available when I ordered mine, but I would have chosen the folding ones (so I could heat them) if I could have done. That's the only thing I would change with my spec.

From memory, if you wanted buckets it was folding ones or bust. I don't recall an option for any other type