New 2014 Cayman (non S) - Buyers beware.
Discussion
Took my 2010 Boxster S in for a service last week and was given a brand new Cayman (non S PDK with 20 inch wheels)as a courtesy car.
First impressions were that it looked like a million dollars, and rode really well on the gorgeous 20 inch wheels.
The only problem was the car was unbelievably gutless in acceleration even when the sport button was pressed.
You really had to wring it's neck to get it to accelerate - there's just no real low down torque.
Pressing the throttle at 3k rpm just results in it kicking down a couple of gears, making a bit of noise and eventually picking up its skirts at around 5k rpm
Very disappointing performance when compared with my 4 year old Boxster S (PDK + Sport Chrono)which has an instant and urgent throttle response in sport mode.
Looking at the specs of the new car, sure it has a headline power of 275 HP but it delivers this at 7400 rpm - when you drive the thing in the real world it just doesn't impress.
I would urge potential buyers to look at the S version which must be a better proposition - or those that can't afford it consider a previous generation S.
I have read comments to the effect that the new non S is almost as quick as the previous generation S - but I'm sorry but that just isn't true - buyers beware.....
First impressions were that it looked like a million dollars, and rode really well on the gorgeous 20 inch wheels.
The only problem was the car was unbelievably gutless in acceleration even when the sport button was pressed.
You really had to wring it's neck to get it to accelerate - there's just no real low down torque.
Pressing the throttle at 3k rpm just results in it kicking down a couple of gears, making a bit of noise and eventually picking up its skirts at around 5k rpm
Very disappointing performance when compared with my 4 year old Boxster S (PDK + Sport Chrono)which has an instant and urgent throttle response in sport mode.
Looking at the specs of the new car, sure it has a headline power of 275 HP but it delivers this at 7400 rpm - when you drive the thing in the real world it just doesn't impress.
I would urge potential buyers to look at the S version which must be a better proposition - or those that can't afford it consider a previous generation S.
I have read comments to the effect that the new non S is almost as quick as the previous generation S - but I'm sorry but that just isn't true - buyers beware.....
I too found the same experience with the Cayman model. I suspect it is probably better suited to the manual gearbox, rather than the PDK, as you mentioned, a sudden kick down of the pedal, just makes it rev pointlessly with little action. I actually think my old 2.9 in manual felt a tad quicker.
I would not however discount this model for those that are new into the Porsche marque, as it still does offer sublime handling.
G
I would not however discount this model for those that are new into the Porsche marque, as it still does offer sublime handling.
G
Base Cayman is basically a high-end Mazda MX-5. The torque-to-contact patch ratio is actually a bit higher, but at the end of the day those 265s provide insane mechanical grip. You can get the rear to really come out, but you have to be very deliberate with it. Also, the gear ratios are a bit long, which is why it can run out to 165mph (265 kph).
Goofnik said:
Also, the gear ratios are a bit long,
So use a different gear! It's got 6 of the darned things to choose from.Anyway, there's no doubt the Boxster/Cayman have to be revved to get them shifting up the road. Same applies to my S. If you want to drive quickly then 2nd and 3rd gears are the place to be. Torque monster it is not.
I actually prefer the smallest engine as it has to work much harder.
Driving around mostly in 3rd and dropping down to 2nd in pdk is the way to go.
The 3.4 is also a nice engine but it's neither fish nor fowl in that state of tune.
The 2.7 delivers the type of bhp per litre numbers that make it one the the best units you can buy for the money.
I drove a 2.7 Cayman for a couple of weeks while my car was being repaired.
At first, I agree the initial response was not inspiring. Though it drives very well, corners brilliantly and it's plenty quick enough for daily use.
After 2 weeks, I tried the 'sport' mode again on the way back to OPC. It suddenly became exciting. Being used to the normal mode for a while then engaging the sport button - yep it has the ability to be a lot of fun
So please do not dismiss the 2.7 Cayman, it's a very capable car and £9k cheaper than the 3.4. Which allows for a lot of nice extras to make it a great car for regular use
At first, I agree the initial response was not inspiring. Though it drives very well, corners brilliantly and it's plenty quick enough for daily use.
After 2 weeks, I tried the 'sport' mode again on the way back to OPC. It suddenly became exciting. Being used to the normal mode for a while then engaging the sport button - yep it has the ability to be a lot of fun
So please do not dismiss the 2.7 Cayman, it's a very capable car and £9k cheaper than the 3.4. Which allows for a lot of nice extras to make it a great car for regular use
Having just moved from a 996 Tiptronic to a manual 2007 Cayman the difference in low down grunt is very obvious, but the reduced weight, improved agility and realisation that you need to be over 4500 revs to get it to perform has more than restored the fun factor for me. The lazy driving style possible with the 996 has given way to spirited gear changes in the Cayman using the excellent short shifter, and a greater confidence through corners means rapid a to b journeys are just as quick in the Cayman.
Agree with those defending the 981 base Cayman. It is a good car and a big saving on the more torquey S model. I have an S myself which I love, but you just need to accept that with the base you need to rev. If you rev hard, you will obviously not be getting great mpg. Do you care? You might also look a bit of an idiot with screaming engine if you are pushing on. Do you care? Some people will care, but I think that it is a fine drivers car.
Taking the Porsche brochure power and torque graphs for the two vehicles I was comparing shows just what I was talking about:
There is a significant difference in both power and torque in the normal 3k to 6k rpm band which I would expect to use on the road.
Don't let anyone tell you the new non S is close to the old S....
There is a significant difference in both power and torque in the normal 3k to 6k rpm band which I would expect to use on the road.
Don't let anyone tell you the new non S is close to the old S....
Buyers don’t really need to beware though do they? It’s not like they are not going to test drive a new Cayman before buying therefore potential buyers can make their own conclusions about the speed of a base Cayman.
Who is claiming a 981 Cayman is faster than a 987.2 Boxster S anyway?
987 Boxster S 0-06mph 5.1 Sec. Top speed 170mph
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-fi...
981 Cayman PDK 0-60mph 5.4 Seconds. Top speed 164mph
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-fi...
Who is claiming a 981 Cayman is faster than a 987.2 Boxster S anyway?
987 Boxster S 0-06mph 5.1 Sec. Top speed 170mph
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-fi...
981 Cayman PDK 0-60mph 5.4 Seconds. Top speed 164mph
http://www.parkers.co.uk/cars/reviews/facts-and-fi...
What the problem is for me is that between 4,000 rpm and 6,000 rpm where on road performance normally takes place, there is a 50 to 60 bhp gap between the two cars and in my opinion that's why it feels significantly slower.
Another couple of things which I don't like about the 2014 car are :
Looking forward the next generation Boxster/Cayman will probably take this a step further with a 4 cylinder turbo or hybrid engine, brake recuperation and other energy efficiency measures.
This eventually raises the question of which will history judge to be the best Boxster/Cayman they ever made ?
For me the answer is obvious :
987.2
A future classic in the making......
Another couple of things which I don't like about the 2014 car are :
- the steering - which feels less responsive and has less road feedback
- the run on feature - driving at a steady 70mph when you release the throttle the car seems not to slow down with engine braking
- the damn auto start/stop function
Looking forward the next generation Boxster/Cayman will probably take this a step further with a 4 cylinder turbo or hybrid engine, brake recuperation and other energy efficiency measures.
This eventually raises the question of which will history judge to be the best Boxster/Cayman they ever made ?
For me the answer is obvious :
987.2
A future classic in the making......
Had the base Cayman with manual for a couple of days and absolutely loved it. Nice and modern on the motorway for boringsville, but off piste with that manual box and having to work it made for a rewarding drive that took effort and brought a huge grin to the face. Plenty of red line and noise, brilliant.
Sadly I took it back and got back into my 3.2 Carrera and realised how dull modern cars are
Sadly I took it back and got back into my 3.2 Carrera and realised how dull modern cars are
Peter Cee said:
Another couple of things which I don't like about the 2014 car are :
Coasting and auto start/stop can both be disabled by pressing the sport button which addresses two of your complaints.- the steering - which feels less responsive and has less road feedback
- the run on feature - driving at a steady 70mph when you release the throttle the car seems not to slow down with engine braking
- the damn auto start/stop function
Everyone has different experiences, but it's not really nice expressing something like this on a forum with many different people and many with the car in question.
I've just got a 981s (Boxster) and it scares the crap out of me. Prior to that I had an MX-5 for 3 years (from new) which was lots of fun if a little cramped and after a Supra Turbo, 328 Sport (1999 - new), 406 3l Coupe (I know ... but it was very pretty), 2 x ST220, it felt like it was always working too hard doing too little. If I'd been driving 2l hatches or Mondeo rather than a series of 200-250BHP 6 cyls in the previous 20 years ... it would have seemed fine in all categories. You learnt to enjoy it because you could do fun things a slow speeds ... where as if you did the same in a 911, you'd probably exit the road backwards into a tree.
If I'd got the standard Boxster last month instead of the S, I'd have no reference. It would still seem fast (much faster than the MX-5 by the way ..) and still sound so so so much better .. I'd have been delighted. Comparing a 5.4 sec 0-60 162 mph Boxster with a late 7 sec 0-60 140 mph MX-5 that is very plastic, thin, basic (albeit .. lots of fun), just doesn't make real sense. They are very different.
Yes the S is nearly a second 0-60 faster .. and probably notably faster in the mid range where it's frankly a lot more useful .. and yes that standard needs to be in a lower gear at higher revs ... but if you really want low end talk .. get a turbo something.
Also .. let's look at how the speed works - at 45 ... you see an opening and 2 secs later you've broken the national speed limit .. you just don't often have the time to enjoy the real speed or acceleration .. so for many (I'm not saying me ... but it's a close thing) .. having slightly less power, you may actually enjoy it more. I'm loving it ... but also seeing that in real life if you're not tracking regularly (which I won't) .. you're not really getting much extra between the S and Standard.
My Dad has a 2010 987 S with similar if not better options to my 981. It's fantastic, and if I'd not driven as looked at the 981, I'd have been delighted with it myself. Would I chose it over a 981 standard for the same price ? I'm really not sure .. I love the new design ..
It really depends on what you value.
Looking at the whole MX-5 comparison ... purely coincidentally, I did a daft quantitative value comparison of my traded MX-5 with my new S.
Don't expect anyone to take too seriously ... but it does show it's not as obvious as it may seem.
Power Weight 0-60 Top Speed Trim quality Toys Price
MX-5 160 1250kg 7.9 136 Basic trim v Basic 22.5k (new Sport tech coupe)
Boxster S (981) 315 1350kg 4.7 172 Lovely Awesome 62k new, 48k (18 mths old,10k miles, mint, 21/2 yr Porsche Warranty)
Boxster (981) 265 1300kg 5.4 162 Lovely Awesome perhaps 54k new, 42k (approx same as above)
Re trim .. MX-5 is functional and pretty enough but hard plastic and plastic everywhere else except the 'mid quality' leather seats. It's noisy everywhere because of a lack of sound insulation and quality materials and the carpet is paper thin ... and that is fine .. it's supposed to be a better quality re-imagining of the MGB after all. The S has thick carpet up to the roll over bars, quality leather (I've got the Carrera Red Natural) everywhere inc the 14 way electrical seat, doors, dash etc, stainless kick plates, aluminium inserts around everything ... I could go on.
Re toys .. The MX-5 had cruise and an ok Bose 6 disk head unit. I know the Porsche is all about options ... but the price comparison is based on mine - which has £16k of options when new.
So .. value ? 50% faster 0-60, 36mph on top end, 7 speed super sexy PDK, twice the power, twice the torque, roughly the same weight !!! At least double the build quality and 4 times the toys cost .. at 18 mths old to a new MX-5 .. easily better value ... I'd even say it was value at nearly 3 times cost of new MX-5
So ... If you love the 981 shape (Cayman or Boxster) and aren't bothered about the extra performance which for many, you won't use ... then get one and love one. In every other respect it is the same as the S. Aside from the 'a car has 4 wheels and an engine and this one is missing a roof', it is nothing like the MX-5 at all - even if you like graphs and figures. If you'd rather have a 987 with more options than you can afford on a newer 981 ... the get one and love one.
This is supposed to be a happy place celebrating lovely toys ...
Paul.
I've just got a 981s (Boxster) and it scares the crap out of me. Prior to that I had an MX-5 for 3 years (from new) which was lots of fun if a little cramped and after a Supra Turbo, 328 Sport (1999 - new), 406 3l Coupe (I know ... but it was very pretty), 2 x ST220, it felt like it was always working too hard doing too little. If I'd been driving 2l hatches or Mondeo rather than a series of 200-250BHP 6 cyls in the previous 20 years ... it would have seemed fine in all categories. You learnt to enjoy it because you could do fun things a slow speeds ... where as if you did the same in a 911, you'd probably exit the road backwards into a tree.
If I'd got the standard Boxster last month instead of the S, I'd have no reference. It would still seem fast (much faster than the MX-5 by the way ..) and still sound so so so much better .. I'd have been delighted. Comparing a 5.4 sec 0-60 162 mph Boxster with a late 7 sec 0-60 140 mph MX-5 that is very plastic, thin, basic (albeit .. lots of fun), just doesn't make real sense. They are very different.
Yes the S is nearly a second 0-60 faster .. and probably notably faster in the mid range where it's frankly a lot more useful .. and yes that standard needs to be in a lower gear at higher revs ... but if you really want low end talk .. get a turbo something.
Also .. let's look at how the speed works - at 45 ... you see an opening and 2 secs later you've broken the national speed limit .. you just don't often have the time to enjoy the real speed or acceleration .. so for many (I'm not saying me ... but it's a close thing) .. having slightly less power, you may actually enjoy it more. I'm loving it ... but also seeing that in real life if you're not tracking regularly (which I won't) .. you're not really getting much extra between the S and Standard.
My Dad has a 2010 987 S with similar if not better options to my 981. It's fantastic, and if I'd not driven as looked at the 981, I'd have been delighted with it myself. Would I chose it over a 981 standard for the same price ? I'm really not sure .. I love the new design ..
It really depends on what you value.
Looking at the whole MX-5 comparison ... purely coincidentally, I did a daft quantitative value comparison of my traded MX-5 with my new S.
Don't expect anyone to take too seriously ... but it does show it's not as obvious as it may seem.
Power Weight 0-60 Top Speed Trim quality Toys Price
MX-5 160 1250kg 7.9 136 Basic trim v Basic 22.5k (new Sport tech coupe)
Boxster S (981) 315 1350kg 4.7 172 Lovely Awesome 62k new, 48k (18 mths old,10k miles, mint, 21/2 yr Porsche Warranty)
Boxster (981) 265 1300kg 5.4 162 Lovely Awesome perhaps 54k new, 42k (approx same as above)
Re trim .. MX-5 is functional and pretty enough but hard plastic and plastic everywhere else except the 'mid quality' leather seats. It's noisy everywhere because of a lack of sound insulation and quality materials and the carpet is paper thin ... and that is fine .. it's supposed to be a better quality re-imagining of the MGB after all. The S has thick carpet up to the roll over bars, quality leather (I've got the Carrera Red Natural) everywhere inc the 14 way electrical seat, doors, dash etc, stainless kick plates, aluminium inserts around everything ... I could go on.
Re toys .. The MX-5 had cruise and an ok Bose 6 disk head unit. I know the Porsche is all about options ... but the price comparison is based on mine - which has £16k of options when new.
So .. value ? 50% faster 0-60, 36mph on top end, 7 speed super sexy PDK, twice the power, twice the torque, roughly the same weight !!! At least double the build quality and 4 times the toys cost .. at 18 mths old to a new MX-5 .. easily better value ... I'd even say it was value at nearly 3 times cost of new MX-5
So ... If you love the 981 shape (Cayman or Boxster) and aren't bothered about the extra performance which for many, you won't use ... then get one and love one. In every other respect it is the same as the S. Aside from the 'a car has 4 wheels and an engine and this one is missing a roof', it is nothing like the MX-5 at all - even if you like graphs and figures. If you'd rather have a 987 with more options than you can afford on a newer 981 ... the get one and love one.
This is supposed to be a happy place celebrating lovely toys ...
Paul.
Peter Cee said:
Took my 2010 Boxster S in for a service last week and was given a brand new Cayman (non S PDK with 20 inch wheels)as a courtesy car.
First impressions were that it looked like a million dollars, and rode really well on the gorgeous 20 inch wheels.
The only problem was the car was unbelievably gutless in acceleration even when the sport button was pressed.
You really had to wring it's neck to get it to accelerate - there's just no real low down torque.
Pressing the throttle at 3k rpm just results in it kicking down a couple of gears, making a bit of noise and eventually picking up its skirts at around 5k rpm
Very disappointing performance when compared with my 4 year old Boxster S (PDK + Sport Chrono)which has an instant and urgent throttle response in sport mode.
Looking at the specs of the new car, sure it has a headline power of 275 HP but it delivers this at 7400 rpm - when you drive the thing in the real world it just doesn't impress.
I would urge potential buyers to look at the S version which must be a better proposition - or those that can't afford it consider a previous generation S.
I have read comments to the effect that the new non S is almost as quick as the previous generation S - but I'm sorry but that just isn't true - buyers beware.....
Thank you for your concern, but my 981 2.7 manual is the best car I've ever owned. First impressions were that it looked like a million dollars, and rode really well on the gorgeous 20 inch wheels.
The only problem was the car was unbelievably gutless in acceleration even when the sport button was pressed.
You really had to wring it's neck to get it to accelerate - there's just no real low down torque.
Pressing the throttle at 3k rpm just results in it kicking down a couple of gears, making a bit of noise and eventually picking up its skirts at around 5k rpm
Very disappointing performance when compared with my 4 year old Boxster S (PDK + Sport Chrono)which has an instant and urgent throttle response in sport mode.
Looking at the specs of the new car, sure it has a headline power of 275 HP but it delivers this at 7400 rpm - when you drive the thing in the real world it just doesn't impress.
I would urge potential buyers to look at the S version which must be a better proposition - or those that can't afford it consider a previous generation S.
I have read comments to the effect that the new non S is almost as quick as the previous generation S - but I'm sorry but that just isn't true - buyers beware.....
The manual box is gorgeous. I get 34mpg.
The extra space and design of the interior makes it a huge step forward over the two 987's I've owned.
I loved the 987's, but this car is a diffrent grade. Oh, and it cost the same brand new as a 3 series diesel....
Buyers beware indeed....you don't need to spend £60K on a loaded 'S'
I've got a budget of £37,500 for a 987.2 Cayman. I have loosely considered a 2.7 981 as I think its leagues a head however £7,500 of my budget I'm already borrowing so I daren't borrow any more and plus I would get a sparsely spec car, maybe next year.
The 2.7 power/torque etc. would not put me off, as fortunately Porsche fitted gearboxes to these cars.
The 2.7 power/torque etc. would not put me off, as fortunately Porsche fitted gearboxes to these cars.
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