WIll you still buy a GT4 if it's a 2l turbo

[BubblesNW]

ChrisW. said:

Who mentioned the weight of the V4 ??

Who has seen a 919 engine ?

Is there a spec sheet for it anywhere ?

This whole discussion is vapour-ware ...

So we can all play the what-if --- but we can't knock any of the possibilities because we don't know

If anybody has a better idea, please say so ... I for one am listening.

Questions. What would enable Porsche to put what they already have to the best use ???

If we consider Q3 2015 to be a possible launch date, the mules are already out there !!

Although an interesting proposition, I really doubt that Porsche would introduce such a step change in technology in the Cayman / Boxster platform, their least popular and probably least profitable product line.

I suspect the flat 6 N/A or flat 4 turbo are much more likely.

However, the amount of speculation is pretty futile and irrelevant. There must be someone, somewhere who has definitive information on this model, especially as launch dates are supposedly only 12 months away. There isn't even surety over the model designation - GT4 - R - GTSR etc.

At the moment it is very annoying and frustrating. I have my name down but only if it (i)something that appeals to me as a drivers car and not a parts bin special and (ii) not rediculously priced i.e above a 997 GT3.

[converted lurker]

mollytherocker said:

I think you may be living in your own world there. How do you know the engine would be less weight and have a lower C of G?

I dont know but its a general engineering principle. Hence why turbos were developed first for aviation engines. Removing pistons and capacity saved more weight than adding a turbo which gave back the same power.

A smaller 4 cyl unit allows more space to design ancillary and transmission gear in lower positions. The weight saving may be marginal but pistons, cranks, heads and housings are all heavy so eliminating a third of them is going to get youe somewhere.

Fords three cylinder ecoboost 1ltr is really good to use.

[J-P]

ChrisW. said:

Who mentioned the weight of the V4 ??

Who has seen a 919 engine ?

Is there a spec sheet for it anywhere ?

This whole discussion is vapour-ware ...

So we can all play the what-if --- but we can't knock any of the possibilities because we don't know

If anybody has a better idea, please say so ... I for one am listening.

Questions. What would enable Porsche to put what they already have to the best use ???

If we consider Q3 2015 to be a possible launch date, the mules are already out there !!

Of course the mules are out there - there are countless pics and vids of them.

Here, for example:

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/porsche/cayman/87009/...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bLIPC9_jW6I

[ORD]

converted lurker said:

I dont know but its a general engineering principle. Hence why turbos were developed first for aviation engines. Removing pistons and capacity saved more weight than adding a turbo which gave back the same power.

A smaller 4 cyl unit allows more space to design ancillary and transmission gear in lower positions. The weight saving may be marginal but pistons, cranks, heads and housings are all heavy so eliminating a third of them is going to get youe somewhere.

Fords three cylinder ecoboost 1ltr is really good to use.

Aha. The final sentence is telling. A lot of people on here would despise an engine that was remotely similar to the Ecoboost - flat delivery, nothing to be gained from revving it out, etc.

[shoestring7]

ORD said:

converted lurker said:

I dont know but its a general engineering principle. Hence why turbos were developed first for aviation engines. Removing pistons and capacity saved more weight than adding a turbo which gave back the same power.

A smaller 4 cyl unit allows more space to design ancillary and transmission gear in lower positions. The weight saving may be marginal but pistons, cranks, heads and housings are all heavy so eliminating a third of them is going to get youe somewhere.

Fords three cylinder ecoboost 1ltr is really good to use.

Aha. The final sentence is telling. A lot of people on here would despise an engine that was remotely similar to the Ecoboost - flat delivery, nothing to be gained from revving it out, etc.

The characteristics of the 1l Ford engine as installed in the Fiesta is all about the state of tune, and nothing about the basic architecture. I don't recall any PH keyboard warriors complaining when it was set up to produce a noisy 170bhp in a single seater: http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/ford/66113/formula-fo...

SS7

[ORD]

Fair point, but there are inherent limitations to any engine design. A small displacement lump made good with lots of boost is, in my view, a bad place to start if you want a characterful engine for a sports car.

I have yet to experience a small turbocharged engine that didn't annoy the living st out of me or, at best, leave me cold. I trust Porsche to do a good job, but I would still vastly prefer a flat 6.

We'll be sold a line about centre of gravity, weight savings, etc, but nobody at Porsche would want to make a 4 pot if it wasn't for emissions nonsense. We all know that a turbo 4 pot is way more fuel efficient and clean, of course...except that it really bloody isn't except on motorway cruises and town pootling.

[converted lurker]

Water cooled flat sixes have not proved very reliable though.

[ORD]

converted lurker said:

Water cooled flat sixes have not proved very reliable though.

As far as I am aware, the DFI engines are fine, as were the Turbo and GT3 lumps (until the current one with its teething problems). The problems with the early standard water cooled flat sixes are very easy to overstate - a couple of design flaws that caused failure in a relatively small proportion of engines.

I'm not saying that Porsche did not cock up, but I cannot see how that is relevant to what it should be doing from now on. If anything, Porsche has show that it cocks up when it does something new. I would trust it much less to produce a reliable turbo 4 than I would to improve upon the already excellent and reliable 6s.

[mad ferret]

I wonder when the launch date will be announced? Anyone any idea's?

[EricE]

mad ferret said:

I wonder when the launch date will be announced? Anyone any idea's?

Usually at a motor show. The Paris Motorshow is in about a month. Then there's Geneva in March 2015.

Mind you they have the 991 facelift, the Cayman GT4 and the 991 GT3 RS in the pipeline right now. Of course there is also the rumoured "ferrari fighter", the Macan Hybrid, etc.

I’d say they announce the 991 facelift and GT4 in Paris and the GT3 RS in Geneva but that is really just a guess.

Edited by EricE on Tuesday 2nd September 14:53

[itsybitsy]

EricE said:

Usually at a motor show. The Paris Motorshow is in about a month. Then there's Geneva in March 2015.

Mind you they have the 991 facelift, the Cayman GT4 and the 991 GT3 RS in the pipeline right now. Of course there is also the rumoured "ferrari fighter", the Macan Hybrid, etc.

I’d say they announce the 991 facelift and GT4 in Paris and the GT3 RS in Geneva but that is really just a guess.

Edited by EricE on Tuesday 2nd September 14:53

At a guess if there is a gt4 most likely LA November 2015

[mrdemon]

2015 FRANKFURT AUTO SHOW is my bet :-)

[EricE]

itsybitsy said:

At a guess if there is a gt4 most likely LA November 2015

Well yes, true. They kind of have to announce the GT3 RS before the GT4 or they may risk some cannibalisation from people that need a track car and are simply tired of waiting.

On the other hand the GT4 prototype looked much more polished and finished than the GT3 RS mule compared to the patent drawings. We shall see!

(no need to tell me that the GT3 RS and GT4 won’t be in the same market segment, the point still stands)

[ChrisW.]

Porsche desperately need a new engine.

Mezger is gone.

DFI is at it's limit in the GT3.

GT4 may neatly introduce the Turbo race concept to the new GT3RS , all of which are sold on pre-orders.

And who would then say that the Cayman competes with the GT3 series ??

I adore small, light cars.

I would always choose a GT4 over a GT3RS --- but that's where I see the differentiation

Exciting isn't it ?? !

[mollytherocker]

ChrisW. said:

Porsche desperately need a new engine.

Mezger is gone.

They will never build a bespoke engine for the 911 again in my view. Having said that, it wasn't a new design of course. This was all about the fact that Wedlinger had built a new 911, the 996, which was built on a new cost efficient Japanese influenced concept. This new engine was built to a cost and was lifed. It was not suitable to race.

Andreas made this clear, the Mezger was far too expensive and the DFI GT3 engine is half the cost. And guess what, they are STILL racing the Mezger! And they will in 2015 too.

So whats the future, who knows, but they must be looking at the 919 V4? Why wouldn't they? Its more relevant today and is hybrid ready etc etc.

I don't see why they need to design another engine.

[Carl_Docklands]

Porsche don't leak photos for cars that are a year away unless its a major new model.

November 2015 is too far away for this car.

[itsybitsy]

Carl_Docklands said:

Porsche don't leak photos for cars that are a year away unless its a major new model.

November 2015 is too far away for this car.

But nothing has been leaked all speculation at the moment!

[EricE]

itsybitsy said:

But nothing has been leaked all speculation at the moment!

Surely you are aware of the spy shots? All its missing is a production wing and wheels. Other than that it looks very finished to me.
A letter in the reader section of Sport Auto also leaked the power number (~370 hp) and I find it unlikely that a german magazine with that kind of reputation would print such a letter unless they had some insider information (possibly under NDA) to back it up.

[Carl_Docklands]

itsybitsy said:

Carl_Docklands said:

Porsche don't leak photos for cars that are a year away unless its a major new model.

November 2015 is too far away for this car.

But nothing has been leaked all speculation at the moment!

Hey matey, do a google for gt4 cayman, the shots were leaked in May. Almost 6 months ago now, same deal as leaked gt3 shots. Black development car photographed in a clear, non blurry manner by same photographer seemingly able to outrun said car around town and take multiple shots from multiple angles.

I would like to meet this guy as he must be able to run with his camera gear at a fair lick.

[itsybitsy]

Carl_Docklands said:

Hey matey, do a google for gt4 cayman, the shots were leaked in May. Almost 6 months ago now, same deal as leaked gt3 shots. Black development car photographed in a clear, non blurry manner by same photographer seemingly able to outrun said car around town and take multiple shots from multiple angles.

I would like to meet this guy as he must be able to run with his camera gear at a fair lick.

Saw those pictures back then and was some debate wether it was a test mule or private car with a spoiler etc!
Also lack of Stuttgart number plate doesn't help convince