Cayman Gen 1- to "S" or not to S...
Discussion
Hi all, a year into owning my 1 series coupe and getting itchy feet. Commute has shortened to the point where diesel isn't needed and I can sell it on at a pretty minor loss.
Been given green light on something sportier. Considered a few other cars (370Z, TTS, Z4) but heart and eyes are drawn to a cayman. That and a friend just bought one and it's gorgeous.
So I want gen 1, manual, reasonably basic spec. This is a drivers car and I want to drive it, some gorgeous B roads here and that's what it's for. Budget up to £20k.
So my only question is to go for a 2.7 or 3.4. In terms of speed the lower of the two is fine I am sure, and I believe less prone to the issues we all know with the bigger engines like bore scoring etc. But to drive... Is the S heavier? Is the additional horsepower worth it? Prices seem to be the same regardless of engine. Does the S come with more toys or anything?
Any help is appreciated, will need to drive both but some experienced owners opinions would help.
Been given green light on something sportier. Considered a few other cars (370Z, TTS, Z4) but heart and eyes are drawn to a cayman. That and a friend just bought one and it's gorgeous.
So I want gen 1, manual, reasonably basic spec. This is a drivers car and I want to drive it, some gorgeous B roads here and that's what it's for. Budget up to £20k.
So my only question is to go for a 2.7 or 3.4. In terms of speed the lower of the two is fine I am sure, and I believe less prone to the issues we all know with the bigger engines like bore scoring etc. But to drive... Is the S heavier? Is the additional horsepower worth it? Prices seem to be the same regardless of engine. Does the S come with more toys or anything?
Any help is appreciated, will need to drive both but some experienced owners opinions would help.
Edited by carparkno1 on Wednesday 12th November 15:29
Short answer is you have to drive examples of both cars and make up your own mind.
My personal feeling is the base model is the best buy. Costs less to get into, insure, service, maintain, repair, and run.
While the S is of course faster, there's always a faster car.
Besides the base car is not a slug, not by an stretch of the imagination.
The smaller engine is less stressed which can help engine longevity.
(My 2002 Boxster with its 2.7l 5-speed has gone over 287K miles on the original engine (and clutch), so I'm rather understandably biased towards the base models.)
My personal feeling is the base model is the best buy. Costs less to get into, insure, service, maintain, repair, and run.
While the S is of course faster, there's always a faster car.
Besides the base car is not a slug, not by an stretch of the imagination.
The smaller engine is less stressed which can help engine longevity.
(My 2002 Boxster with its 2.7l 5-speed has gone over 287K miles on the original engine (and clutch), so I'm rather understandably biased towards the base models.)
Ok I'm assuming your coming from a 120d.
I have the same car, I test drove the Cayman and found the lack of torque on the motorway annoying. I found I has to change down a gear to get going above 70. However I had a 24 hour test drive and got used to it and didn't really notice it when I drove back to the dealership to hand the car back.
Saying that, I always thought it would annoy me so I ordered a GTS (an s would do) because of the extra torque.
Saying that I did love revving the hell out of it
I have the same car, I test drove the Cayman and found the lack of torque on the motorway annoying. I found I has to change down a gear to get going above 70. However I had a 24 hour test drive and got used to it and didn't really notice it when I drove back to the dealership to hand the car back.
Saying that, I always thought it would annoy me so I ordered a GTS (an s would do) because of the extra torque.
Saying that I did love revving the hell out of it
For that budget there is no way I would buy a Gen 1.
Look for a Gen 2, does not look as dated (clear lenses/leds all round) and the interior is much improved.
But the most important no IMS for a complete piece of mind.
Mine cost 22k couple of years back although only a 2.9 (these are not DFI) and touch wood the engine has proven bombproof.
Mine is loaded with full leather interior, adaptive sports seats, pdls, 19" wheels, pcm3, bose, etc., etc. so makes for a decent daily driver.
Coming from a 177hp 120d you will initially feel you stepped into a 1.0 micra, these cars have no torque but you will soon get used to it and it will not bother you. Also you will be constantly visiting petrol stations but you will be used to that as well. What you will not get used to is the sound, it still makes me smile every time even though I am a v8 man myself.
Look for a Gen 2, does not look as dated (clear lenses/leds all round) and the interior is much improved.
But the most important no IMS for a complete piece of mind.
Mine cost 22k couple of years back although only a 2.9 (these are not DFI) and touch wood the engine has proven bombproof.
Mine is loaded with full leather interior, adaptive sports seats, pdls, 19" wheels, pcm3, bose, etc., etc. so makes for a decent daily driver.
Coming from a 177hp 120d you will initially feel you stepped into a 1.0 micra, these cars have no torque but you will soon get used to it and it will not bother you. Also you will be constantly visiting petrol stations but you will be used to that as well. What you will not get used to is the sound, it still makes me smile every time even though I am a v8 man myself.
This was the position I was in 6 months ago. Was looking at 25k - bottom end of Gen2 or top end of Gen1 as a daily.
Ended up spending 16k and going for a Gen1 non-S. It does look slightly dated compared to the Gen 2, but not significantly so - both look dated compared to the new body one anyway.
Is it down on power? Yes - the car handles too well to be "fun" - especially with 265's on the back - it just grips - another 100HP probably wouldn't make it that much quicker on the road, but it would be a bit more fun to drive it - if that makes sense? My old 350Z had about 60HP more and was way slower, but you drove it with a huge grin all the time, the Cayman is way more serious.
There is a doubt in the back of my mind that I should have went for the S, but if I had, I know that the IMS issue would eat at me more. I know the chances are slim, but I do not want a car that I climb into and think "I wonder if my engine will eat itself today?" Maybe you have a bigger supply of brave pills than me though.
If I had to make the decision again, I would go the same way - my car might be a bit "poverty pork", but it is comfy (unless you drive it over any bumps - leaves in the road, pieces of chewing gum etc.), quick, reliable and (for a Porsche) cheap to have on the road.
Ended up spending 16k and going for a Gen1 non-S. It does look slightly dated compared to the Gen 2, but not significantly so - both look dated compared to the new body one anyway.
Is it down on power? Yes - the car handles too well to be "fun" - especially with 265's on the back - it just grips - another 100HP probably wouldn't make it that much quicker on the road, but it would be a bit more fun to drive it - if that makes sense? My old 350Z had about 60HP more and was way slower, but you drove it with a huge grin all the time, the Cayman is way more serious.
There is a doubt in the back of my mind that I should have went for the S, but if I had, I know that the IMS issue would eat at me more. I know the chances are slim, but I do not want a car that I climb into and think "I wonder if my engine will eat itself today?" Maybe you have a bigger supply of brave pills than me though.
If I had to make the decision again, I would go the same way - my car might be a bit "poverty pork", but it is comfy (unless you drive it over any bumps - leaves in the road, pieces of chewing gum etc.), quick, reliable and (for a Porsche) cheap to have on the road.
Gen 1 has that nasty silver dash littered with buttons, what were they thinking it looks like something from a Japanese car. If it was black fine but silver?
Gen 2 has a nicer black dash with less than half the buttons and pcm3 vs. pcm2.1
pcm2.1 is horrid, no touchscreen, no Bluetooth, no usb, no iPhone/ipod integration, no hard drive based nav, no qwery input you need to turn the dial to input addresses, completely useless the list goes on.
Gen 1 also has one less gear and needs selecting 1st sometimes to make the most of it and the base engine feels weaker than the Gen 2.
I stand by my decision if you can afford a Gen 2 don't even think about a Gen 1, if Gen 1 is all you can afford you just saved yourself a ton of money (unless it goes bang) and 99.99% percent of the people wouldn't know the difference.
Gen 2 has a nicer black dash with less than half the buttons and pcm3 vs. pcm2.1
pcm2.1 is horrid, no touchscreen, no Bluetooth, no usb, no iPhone/ipod integration, no hard drive based nav, no qwery input you need to turn the dial to input addresses, completely useless the list goes on.
Gen 1 also has one less gear and needs selecting 1st sometimes to make the most of it and the base engine feels weaker than the Gen 2.
I stand by my decision if you can afford a Gen 2 don't even think about a Gen 1, if Gen 1 is all you can afford you just saved yourself a ton of money (unless it goes bang) and 99.99% percent of the people wouldn't know the difference.
Budget wise I am looking at 20k max but really want closer to 18k with a couple of grand for yearly maintenance.
I think I am looking at gen 1. All very valid points for the more updated interior in the gen 2 but I intend to use this for blasts rather than much day to day work. My commute to the station is the length of one Metallica song now and I don't need a sat nav and Bluetooth in day to day use.
So the hunt begins basically. I am going to be open to colour etc but I want a fairly basic manual cayman, just for weekend fun. Thinking 2.7 here as well. Gonna organise a couple of test drives on both engines.
Thanks for all your help esteemed members!
I think I am looking at gen 1. All very valid points for the more updated interior in the gen 2 but I intend to use this for blasts rather than much day to day work. My commute to the station is the length of one Metallica song now and I don't need a sat nav and Bluetooth in day to day use.
So the hunt begins basically. I am going to be open to colour etc but I want a fairly basic manual cayman, just for weekend fun. Thinking 2.7 here as well. Gonna organise a couple of test drives on both engines.
Thanks for all your help esteemed members!
pugfun said:
Gen 1 has that nasty silver dash littered with buttons, what were they thinking it looks like something from a Japanese car. If it was black fine but silver?
Gen 2 has a nicer black dash with less than half the buttons and pcm3 vs. pcm2.1
pcm2.1 is horrid, no touchscreen, no Bluetooth, no usb, no iPhone/ipod integration, no hard drive based nav, no qwery input you need to turn the dial to input addresses, completely useless the list goes on.
Gen 1 also has one less gear and needs selecting 1st sometimes to make the most of it and the base engine feels weaker than the Gen 2.
I stand by my decision if you can afford a Gen 2 don't even think about a Gen 1, if Gen 1 is all you can afford you just saved yourself a ton of money (unless it goes bang) and 99.99% percent of the people wouldn't know the difference.
In the interest of balance, yes the PCN 2.1 is aged by today's standards, but works perfectly well, sat nav is easy to program and set/switch off and feeds navigation info to the dash information display. IMHO the black dash looks like an old ford and the non sports steering wheel looks naff. Gen 2 has a nicer black dash with less than half the buttons and pcm3 vs. pcm2.1
pcm2.1 is horrid, no touchscreen, no Bluetooth, no usb, no iPhone/ipod integration, no hard drive based nav, no qwery input you need to turn the dial to input addresses, completely useless the list goes on.
Gen 1 also has one less gear and needs selecting 1st sometimes to make the most of it and the base engine feels weaker than the Gen 2.
I stand by my decision if you can afford a Gen 2 don't even think about a Gen 1, if Gen 1 is all you can afford you just saved yourself a ton of money (unless it goes bang) and 99.99% percent of the people wouldn't know the difference.
I went for a 07 3.4. No issues to report and it is great fun. I went for a Boxster, as the roof is well made, insulates well and can be operated in seconds on the move. Unless you've driven a cab, you will be oblivious of the added dimension it brings to your enjoyment of a nice open B road.
Add a Carnewal GT modification to the exhaust and it's a case of
I have a 40k mile 2007 Cayman S. It's only cost me a couple of services and a set of brake discs so far. It's probably worth around 17k....about the same price as a mid range Golf.
I simply can't think of anything else that is better at that price point. The Cayman can be a 32mpg comfy commuter with enough torque to make gear changing an occasional occurrence....or a truly brilliant mini - supercar.
At your price point, go for an S. The 2.7 is a lovely thing,but the S has a more adaptable range of abilities.
I simply can't think of anything else that is better at that price point. The Cayman can be a 32mpg comfy commuter with enough torque to make gear changing an occasional occurrence....or a truly brilliant mini - supercar.
At your price point, go for an S. The 2.7 is a lovely thing,but the S has a more adaptable range of abilities.
Was in exactly the same position as you looking at manual gen1 caymans. Felt like the 2.7 was easily fast enough, although enjoyed the higher low-down torque from the 3.4. I also think having the 6th gear is a plus for motorway driving. The 2.7 might be a little cheaper to run (lower tax band, marginally less thirsty) but in the grand scheme of things probably not a lot of difference.
Went for the S in the end, largely because I thought it was cooler and I might not have the chance to own another in the near future. Plus my wife liked the red calipers.
Went for the S in the end, largely because I thought it was cooler and I might not have the chance to own another in the near future. Plus my wife liked the red calipers.
A friend and I were recently making exactly the same choices, in parallel.
We were both looking for 2.7 cars on 18s; with PASM and the 6-speed (a rare optional combo) 'nice to have'.
He ended up with an '07 2.7 from a well-respected specialist (on 18s, 5 speed, no PASM)
I - having said I wasn't interested in an 'S' or a car on 19s (unless, perhaps, with PASM) - ended up buying an '07 3.4 from my local OPC. On 19s. With no PASM.
We've both only had the cars for a handful of weeks - and haven't swapped - but I don't think there's a 'right' answer to the question. The key is to test drive and buy a nice car that you like - and which has been maintained to your satisfaction.
The biggest consideration may be how long you intend leeping the car - and therefore how keenly priced it is.
My car had been looking rather overpriced, but then had a couple of thousand knocked off. When I considered the history, mileage (<21k), condition and factored in the cost of the included 2 year OPC warranty and the set of nearly new / unmarked winter wheels & tyres (18s) and the prep work - the price actually compared favourably with others.
The flipside is that I would doubtless take an obvious hammering if I don't keep the car for a few years.
My intention is to own the car for a few years, enjoying it whenever possible, and keep the servicing & warranty etc up to date. The mileage will stay low as I only do circa 6k miles per year, and am keeping my Cooper S for school runs etc. There''s nothing 'special' about this car to stop it depreciating, but it should alwsys compare favourably with similar cars.
I could have picked up a 2.9 for the same money. But - all the cars I found at this price point were only superficially as good value. They tended to have at least double the mileage, require servicing soon, come with short-dated warranties from random garages or be private sales. So - personally - I was happier putting the money into a nice car with warranty. Other people would want the newer car.
One thing which gave me pause for thought just as I was buying the car was wonderng whether a Cayman R - with the same amount down and then similar finance payments per month, but with a balloon - might not cost about the same over 3 years, and have a similar amount of equity in it after that time. But I decided to go with my original intention of buying / owning (paying off relatively quickly) and enjoyng the car - rather than trying to predict residuals. Plus it was more straightforward to get clearance at home to buy an toy for "about £20k" than one for "about £40k"...
As an aside - based on the options my car has, I would:
- not recommend the Bose; it's bizarrely boomy and bass-heavy
- avoid the PCM2.1 if possible; it's utterly pish
- find or retrofit the short-shift (hard work from cold but then brilliant)
- prefer a thicker rimmed steering wheel (mine is smooth / multifunction / thin)
- not be too fussed about which seats are in the car (mine are standard and great)
- prefer PASM if ALL I was doing was drivng around town; out of town the non-PASM is perfect
We were both looking for 2.7 cars on 18s; with PASM and the 6-speed (a rare optional combo) 'nice to have'.
He ended up with an '07 2.7 from a well-respected specialist (on 18s, 5 speed, no PASM)
I - having said I wasn't interested in an 'S' or a car on 19s (unless, perhaps, with PASM) - ended up buying an '07 3.4 from my local OPC. On 19s. With no PASM.
We've both only had the cars for a handful of weeks - and haven't swapped - but I don't think there's a 'right' answer to the question. The key is to test drive and buy a nice car that you like - and which has been maintained to your satisfaction.
The biggest consideration may be how long you intend leeping the car - and therefore how keenly priced it is.
My car had been looking rather overpriced, but then had a couple of thousand knocked off. When I considered the history, mileage (<21k), condition and factored in the cost of the included 2 year OPC warranty and the set of nearly new / unmarked winter wheels & tyres (18s) and the prep work - the price actually compared favourably with others.
The flipside is that I would doubtless take an obvious hammering if I don't keep the car for a few years.
My intention is to own the car for a few years, enjoying it whenever possible, and keep the servicing & warranty etc up to date. The mileage will stay low as I only do circa 6k miles per year, and am keeping my Cooper S for school runs etc. There''s nothing 'special' about this car to stop it depreciating, but it should alwsys compare favourably with similar cars.
I could have picked up a 2.9 for the same money. But - all the cars I found at this price point were only superficially as good value. They tended to have at least double the mileage, require servicing soon, come with short-dated warranties from random garages or be private sales. So - personally - I was happier putting the money into a nice car with warranty. Other people would want the newer car.
One thing which gave me pause for thought just as I was buying the car was wonderng whether a Cayman R - with the same amount down and then similar finance payments per month, but with a balloon - might not cost about the same over 3 years, and have a similar amount of equity in it after that time. But I decided to go with my original intention of buying / owning (paying off relatively quickly) and enjoyng the car - rather than trying to predict residuals. Plus it was more straightforward to get clearance at home to buy an toy for "about £20k" than one for "about £40k"...
As an aside - based on the options my car has, I would:
- not recommend the Bose; it's bizarrely boomy and bass-heavy
- avoid the PCM2.1 if possible; it's utterly pish
- find or retrofit the short-shift (hard work from cold but then brilliant)
- prefer a thicker rimmed steering wheel (mine is smooth / multifunction / thin)
- not be too fussed about which seats are in the car (mine are standard and great)
- prefer PASM if ALL I was doing was drivng around town; out of town the non-PASM is perfect
nckr55 said:
- not recommend the Bose; it's bizarrely boomy and bass-heavy
Funny, I didn't spec Bose on my old 987 for that very reason. Sound plus package was fine. The 987 CAyman Cabin is very boomie due to a design flaw...the bose was a nightmare in it!The Bose was great in my 987 Boxster...worked really well.
Enjoy the car..loved my 2.9 Gen 2 Cayman ...riding on....19" without PASM....I loved it!
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