Proof that a manual is quicker than a PDK!!

Proof that a manual is quicker than a PDK!!

Author
Discussion

Trev450

Original Poster:

6,314 posts

171 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
quotequote all
Shamelessly copied from Planet 9, this video puts Jason Plato and Marcus Gronholm in two 981 Caymans, one manual and the other PDK. The outcome, is unless you're chasing 0-60 stats, the manual is quicker.

Let the debate continue..................

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedd...

RBT0

1,476 posts

118 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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So 30kg less and 1 sec faster in a lap, with PDK losing all advantages demonstrated on a straight line?

Sorry, bullst for me.

BGHughes

123 posts

141 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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In the hands of a skilled driver, the manual probably is quicker

If you haven't spent most of your adult life learning optimum racing lines and heel / toe techniques, the PDK will help you achieve 95% of the results

The reason Porsche only offer the GT3 with PDK is it makes the car drivable for ordinary drivers. It gives the driver confidence that he cannot harm the engine by selecting the wrong ratio yet probably means the engine gets revved much more that a manual changer


RBT0

1,476 posts

118 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
quotequote all
Same skilled driver, don't understand how manual can be quicker.

PDK has got 30kg more but quicker gearshifts, see that comparison on a straight line, it is overall faster.

Now, if you put that 2 cars in a track, with the same driver, really don't understand why the manual should be quicker.

Gents, maths not bullst.

SkinnyP

1,411 posts

148 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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The only reason you would actually want to own a Cayman/Boxster/911 with PDK is if you can't drive very well.

Nothing more nothing less.

NicD

3,281 posts

256 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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SkinnyP said:
The only reason you would actually want to own a Cayman/Boxster/911 with PDK is if you can't drive very well.

Nothing more nothing less.
you maybe, I bought mine since I now do most of my driving in London traffic.

mikebradford

2,483 posts

144 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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Fifth gear to me never do like for like comparisons
Their usual set up of races with different drivers, usually has some biased result.
And i find it hard to belive a manual is quicker than a PDK equiped similar car

The fact the manual had the larger alloys with lower profile , wider tyres appears to be not mentioned here as well!

Edited by mikebradford on Saturday 15th November 16:00

RBT0

1,476 posts

118 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
quotequote all
SkinnyP said:
The only reason you would actually want to own a Cayman/Boxster/911 with PDK is if you can't drive very well.

Nothing more nothing less.
The only reason I bought a PDK car is because it is faster in a track and in a straight line.

Matter of fact.

No emotions, no granny drivers with a lot of nostalgia, no bullst.

Gents, 458 Speciale, Lambos, 991 GT3, P1, La Ferrari, 918 all with semi auto dual clutch?

Why? Ferrari or McLaren or Porsche would never put an auto box if the car was not quicker.

Why Porsche still offers a manual on Cayman and 911? Because the entry price (so more customers) and because some people "old school" like it, so more customers. Not because is faster.

m999psw

266 posts

197 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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Doesn't Jason's touring car have a sequential transmission with dog clutch engagement to minimize torque loss between gear changes? A bit closer to PDK than H box manual. I am a big PDK fan and DCT before that, I have access to others cars with a manual gearbox and clutch if I ever have the urge.http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/imgs/4.gif

Skyman

1,251 posts

223 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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What a load of drama queens trying to justify the particular box they have chosen. The boring PDK vs manual debate is as fruitless as the apple vs orange one. Just make your own choice, don't preach about it and enjoy.

JPF40

350 posts

230 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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It's televsion and its simply meaningless, and useless.

A PDK will always be faster period.

JPF40

350 posts

230 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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...and my Porsche is manual.LOL

RBT0

1,476 posts

118 months

Saturday 15th November 2014
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Skyman said:
What a load of drama queens trying to justify the particular box they have chosen. The boring PDK vs manual debate is as fruitless as the apple vs orange one. Just make your own choice, don't preach about it and enjoy.
Oh yeah man, as soon as there is not bullstting, every choice is the best for each owner.

m999psw

266 posts

197 months

Sunday 16th November 2014
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Why does it matter which is faster? It doesn't, but its a forum were people are invited to respond to the topic raised.

RBT0

1,476 posts

118 months

Sunday 16th November 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Fair point. But nobody here said PDK is better because better peak of acceleration.
Just because it's quicker from A to B (higher average speed due to quicker gearshift times as you wrote).

See the title of this topic, and I don't accept bullstting, sorry.

mrdemon

21,146 posts

264 months

Sunday 16th November 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
I like the last line :-) PDK is really slower lol never thought about that angle, but you are correct that in gear PDK is slower

awesome....

I have said it on a few threads that on track you only change up a gear maybe 5 or 6 times, people seem to think it's like 20 or 30 times for some reason.

5 times 2/10th second is 1 full second , but the PDK will take longer to brake also, corner slower and be slower in gear.


weight is killer on track for all those reason hence why BTCC add weight to the winners to slow them down

1st position: +45 Kg
2nd: +36 Kg
3rd: +27 Kg
4th: +18 Kg
5th: +9 Kg
6th or lower: 0 Kg

the question is on a 1300kg car how much does 30kg slow you down a lap more or less than the 1 second gained in gear change ?

evojam

560 posts

159 months

Monday 17th November 2014
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Not sure of the maths but doesn't 30kg's actually become alot more when you factor in all the forces involved during hard corning at speed?? hence why the manual car is quicker.I like PDK but for me on the ocassional blast in my 987 down a deserted road at night,heel & toeing and the great feeling when you get it just right is far more rewarding than having the car do it all for you.The manual box option will be ticked when I order a new S'

Ozzie Osmond

21,189 posts

245 months

Monday 17th November 2014
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RBT0 said:
Why Porsche still offers a manual on Cayman and 911? Because the entry price (so more customers) and because some people "old school" like it, so more customers. Not because is faster.
I don't think that's right. The big advantage of not offering a manual is that idiot drivers can't do so much damage to the clutch and driveline. Many modern sportscars are now massively powerful and driver abuse will destroy things very quickly. The manufacturers want to be selling reliable cars.

Fact is, the entry Porsches aren't very powerful by modern standards so aren't so high risk. Having said that, even my manual Boxster can deliver smell from the clutch much more easily than any car I've owned before.

Driving a manual is quite pleasing but the performance of a Porsche with PDK and Sport+ is simply astounding.

mrdemon

21,146 posts

264 months

Monday 17th November 2014
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but we have decide the performance is slower, only the gear change is faster !!!

VladD

7,853 posts

264 months

Monday 17th November 2014
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Isn't the big benefit of PDK the MPG and emissions figures that can be obtained and then quoted?