Proof that a manual is quicker than a PDK!!
Discussion
MrDemon: You didn't buy a 981 because of the electric steering? Really? I came to the GTS from a car regarded to have perhaps the greatest steering feel in a modern car, the Lotus Evora. Guess what? The 981 steering feels no worse, no better - certainly it does not detract from the driving experience. Perhaps you spend too much time listening to Chris Harris moaning on about stuff like that.
Subjective of course, but the 981 as a whole package (manual or PDK) is Porsche's best car by a country mile, and certainly the most involving back for your buck.
It makes me wonder how many multi-thousand post contributors to PH or topics like this actually drive the cars being talked about, or perhaps they are just forum wonkers ?
Subjective of course, but the 981 as a whole package (manual or PDK) is Porsche's best car by a country mile, and certainly the most involving back for your buck.
It makes me wonder how many multi-thousand post contributors to PH or topics like this actually drive the cars being talked about, or perhaps they are just forum wonkers ?
mrdemon said:
PDK owners will never get it, lets move on and let them enjoy the dull ness.
AT least my dad at 84 got in my ex M3 V8 420bhp competition and said, "well this is all a bit easy and boaring"
which did put a smile on my face, there is hope that you can enjoy driving after 60 after all.
Even Jag think that with this new Manual F type they have released.
There is a very small enthusiast market for being more involved in driving and if the GT4 is "MANUAL ONLY" that will shut a few people up and I hope make sure the 200 cars go to the right types of people,, the rest can enjoy their GTS PDK Audi's, I mean Porsche's, but really they may as well save 20k and buy a Audi imo unless people just buy on image these days.
Electric steering was enough for me to not order a 981, let alone having PDK as well, double dull ness.
I am a little concerned about the GT4 and electric steering mind you. but todays road racers are def the 991 GT3 and Nissan GTR play station drivers. people had so much issue getting a 911 to turn in Porsche had to fix that for the driver also with Rear wheel steer.
AS cmoose said, not long before the M1 has it's extra lane for full automated driving which should please many it seems.
AT least my dad at 84 got in my ex M3 V8 420bhp competition and said, "well this is all a bit easy and boaring"
which did put a smile on my face, there is hope that you can enjoy driving after 60 after all.
Even Jag think that with this new Manual F type they have released.
There is a very small enthusiast market for being more involved in driving and if the GT4 is "MANUAL ONLY" that will shut a few people up and I hope make sure the 200 cars go to the right types of people,, the rest can enjoy their GTS PDK Audi's, I mean Porsche's, but really they may as well save 20k and buy a Audi imo unless people just buy on image these days.
Electric steering was enough for me to not order a 981, let alone having PDK as well, double dull ness.
I am a little concerned about the GT4 and electric steering mind you. but todays road racers are def the 991 GT3 and Nissan GTR play station drivers. people had so much issue getting a 911 to turn in Porsche had to fix that for the driver also with Rear wheel steer.
AS cmoose said, not long before the M1 has it's extra lane for full automated driving which should please many it seems.
So I bought my car just for image? I must have imagined loving its balance, steering and engine. Besides, Porsches dont actually have much of a positive image in this country. You really are a nobhead at times.koorby said:
MrDemon: You didn't buy a 981 because of the electric steering? Really? I came to the GTS from a car regarded to have perhaps the greatest steering feel in a modern car, the Lotus Evora. Guess what? The 981 steering feels no worse, no better - certainly it does not detract from the driving experience. Perhaps you spend too much time listening to Chris Harris moaning on about stuff like that.
Subjective of course, but the 981 as a whole package (manual or PDK) is Porsche's best car by a country mile, and certainly the most involving back for your buck.
It makes me wonder how many multi-thousand post contributors to PH or topics like this actually drive the cars being talked about, or perhaps they are just forum wonkers ?
yes really ;-)Subjective of course, but the 981 as a whole package (manual or PDK) is Porsche's best car by a country mile, and certainly the most involving back for your buck.
It makes me wonder how many multi-thousand post contributors to PH or topics like this actually drive the cars being talked about, or perhaps they are just forum wonkers ?
my R steering is night and day better, not really a CH fan, he is a GT3 fanboy ;-)
I bought My Spyder and I had the TTRS, after I got board with the TTRS lack of feel and was used to 8 second 100mph cars(took 2 years) I swapped the TTRS for a GT3 and ran the GT3 along side my Spyder for 8 months, the GT3 was frustrating, so I swapped it for the M3 which was DCT dull (lasted 2 months). I test drove the new 981 and it feels lifeless over my SPyder, so in the end just ended up with the R and the Spyder. I did not really want the R because I have the spyder already.
So I have owned most things, best steering imo is on a Noble btw then the elises with a few tweeks.
as I have both the Spyder and the R my cars are always in for MOT, service tyres, etc at my OPC so I borrow a lot of cars, the GTS to me feels 1/2 the car my cars are, the 991 even worse.
I did do the VIP GTS day and that again made my R feel more sporty and alive over the cars at Silverstone, a few R owners were there and most seem to have stuck with the R and not swapped.
so, I own these cars, I drive these cars day to day and I put my money where my mouth is, that's the net result.
R back to back with a GTS is no contest for driver feel and enjoyment, the R wins hands down.
I do have my name down on the GT4 though, I hope as it's built in the motorsport dept and is going to be punted as a "drivers car" it's going to be night and day better than the GTS.
as for the normal 981's inc the GTS, nice cars and all that but I think I would rather have the new mk3 TTRS for a "nice car"
mrdemon said:
There is a very small enthusiast market for being more involved in driving and if the GT4 is "MANUAL ONLY" that will shut a few people up and I hope make sure the 200 cars go to the right types of people,, the rest can enjoy their GTS PDK Audi's, I mean Porsche's, but really they may as well save 20k and buy a Audi imo unless people just buy on image these days.
Judging by your GT4 thread that's highly unlikely because many of the posters on there seem to be more concerned about it being a good investment or would like it to be PDK so that they can tootle around the London traffic. 
boxsey said:
Judging by your GT4 thread that's highly unlikely because many of the posters on there seem to be more concerned about it being a good investment or would like it to be PDK so that they can tootle around the London traffic.
lol, just make sure you sort out the Donny Porsche day again, did I read you were not going to do it in 2015 ;-(been great days over the years with book a track.
I was in the car park at a vintage meet at Shelsley Walsh not too long ago. I saw a young woman and four young kids approach a vintage car, and watched them put their stuff into the car etc.
I then watched the young lady set the ignition timing and throttle position settings on the steering wheel and then saw how the kids stood and watched mum crank the engine over on the starting handle. Then all climbed aboard.
Mum then spent some time having a right good pump on the fuel pressure handle, before then engaging gear and setting off. No doubt this will be in a car that has a different level of retardation on all four brakes.
Now *that's* driving, imo. All the cars mentioned on this thread drive themselves. All that seems to be going on is some willy-waving at the degrees of self-drivingness the respective cars might have, but be assured they're *all* a piece of piss to drive.
I guess the willy waving might come more fondly to those who prefer an erect stick between the seats with a knob on the end though.
I then watched the young lady set the ignition timing and throttle position settings on the steering wheel and then saw how the kids stood and watched mum crank the engine over on the starting handle. Then all climbed aboard.
Mum then spent some time having a right good pump on the fuel pressure handle, before then engaging gear and setting off. No doubt this will be in a car that has a different level of retardation on all four brakes.
Now *that's* driving, imo. All the cars mentioned on this thread drive themselves. All that seems to be going on is some willy-waving at the degrees of self-drivingness the respective cars might have, but be assured they're *all* a piece of piss to drive.
I guess the willy waving might come more fondly to those who prefer an erect stick between the seats with a knob on the end though.
J12KJR said:
mrdemon said:
ORD said:
You really are a nobhead at times.
An so the personal abuse starts when the opinion starts to differ !!!! PDK owner surprise...
mrdemon said:
I do have my name down on the GT4 though, I hope as it's built in the motorsport dept ...
Would you happen to know which part(s) of the GT4 will be "built in the Motorsport department" please? IIRC all models including GT3 and Cup car get built on the same production line as the regular models (not sure about 918).heebeegeetee said:
I was in the car park at a vintage meet at Shelsley Walsh not too long ago. I saw a young woman and four young kids approach a vintage car, and watched them put their stuff into the car etc.
I then watched the young lady set the ignition timing and throttle position settings on the steering wheel and then saw how the kids stood and watched mum crank the engine over on the starting handle. Then all climbed aboard.
Mum then spent some time having a right good pump on the fuel pressure handle, before then engaging gear and setting off. No doubt this will be in a car that has a different level of retardation on all four brakes.
Now *that's* driving, imo. All the cars mentioned on this thread drive themselves. All that seems to be going on is some willy-waving at the degrees of self-drivingness the respective cars might have, but be assured they're *all* a piece of piss to drive.
I guess the willy waving might come more fondly to those who prefer an erect stick between the seats with a knob on the end though.
but she was "not driving" I enjoy driving, I don't want the car hassle to start and I want too be able to rely on it working 7 days a week all weather 365 days a year and not rust ;-).I then watched the young lady set the ignition timing and throttle position settings on the steering wheel and then saw how the kids stood and watched mum crank the engine over on the starting handle. Then all climbed aboard.
Mum then spent some time having a right good pump on the fuel pressure handle, before then engaging gear and setting off. No doubt this will be in a car that has a different level of retardation on all four brakes.
Now *that's* driving, imo. All the cars mentioned on this thread drive themselves. All that seems to be going on is some willy-waving at the degrees of self-drivingness the respective cars might have, but be assured they're *all* a piece of piss to drive.
I guess the willy waving might come more fondly to those who prefer an erect stick between the seats with a knob on the end though.
You do get the car types who love to tinker on the cars at the week end for pleasure , that's not me.
neither are the concours garage queens.
both the above bring pleasure to the owners in the way they want.
neither is driving.
there is no "willy waving " driving a manual , just personal enjoyment in the interaction of driving :-p
The "willy waving " comes from the PDK driver who wants to race you at the lights , no ?
mrdemon said:
there is no "willy waving " driving a manual , just personal enjoyment in the interaction of driving :-p
The "willy waving " comes from the PDK driver who wants to race you at the lights , no ?
On what basis is the driver of PDK equipped Cayman S more likely to want race someone from the lights than the driver of the manual Cayman S.The "willy waving " comes from the PDK driver who wants to race you at the lights , no ?
From your earlier comments surely the PDK driver is more likely to just waft away from the lights in drive.
ORD said:
J12KJR said:
mrdemon said:
ORD said:
You really are a nobhead at times.
An so the personal abuse starts when the opinion starts to differ !!!! PDK owner surprise...
V8KSN said:
No seriously, come one, WHY does the ECU blip the throttle do you think?
I think for the same reasons some of the cars have butterflies in the exhausts or even engine sounds through the speakers, the same reasons we had that vid recently showing Boxster burbling and blipping along the high street.Or put it this way, the automated gearboxes in 44 tonne trucks don't blip throttles or rev match or anything, and they must be under a bit of strain when descending hills etc.
heebeegeetee said:
V8KSN said:
No seriously, come one, WHY does the ECU blip the throttle do you think?
I think for the same reasons some of the cars have butterflies in the exhausts or even engine sounds through the speakers, the same reasons we had that vid recently showing Boxster burbling and blipping along the high street.Or put it this way, the automated gearboxes in 44 tonne trucks don't blip throttles or rev match or anything, and they must be under a bit of strain when descending hills etc.
When a car with a manual transmission is in motion with the clutch engaged, there is a mechanical connection between the engine and wheels which keep them in sync with each other. When shifting however, depressing the clutch is required. This breaks the mechanical connection between the engine and wheels, and the engine speed is no longer linked to that of the wheels.
When upshifting, this is usually not a problem, as the tendency of the engine to reduce speed itself without gas will slow it to loosely match the lower speed of the higher gear. However, when downshifting, the engine needs to speed up to come to speed with the wheels.
If the accelerator is not "blipped" (or briefly and quickly pressed to speed up the disengaged engine), the engine will have to take power from the wheels and momentum of the car to come to speed, which is often accompanied by a sudden deceleration of the vehicle due to the power suddenly going to the engine, often described as a "lurch" or "jolt".
This sudden external acceleration of the engine through the transmission also causes increased wear on the mechanics of the car. Therefore, a staple of advanced or professional manual-transmission driving is the "rev match", or "throttle blip", in which the driver quickly brings the engine up to speed with the wheels by use of the throttle. As downshifting is often necessary when accelerating out of a curve or other slow-down, advanced techniques such as the "heel-toe method" are often required, in which the toe of the right foot presses on the brake pedal, while the heel of the same foot blips the throttle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronized_down_shi...
koorby said:
So electric steering on the GT4 is obviously not an issue then lol!
no one knows yet do they !but yes I would like to try one before selling my R , but as cars are hard to get, I'll have to risk it..
it's very tempting to defer my GT4 slot to a 2016 car.
the 991 was poor, the boxster a bit better but still poor, the Cayman better again not great still (but a lot better), the 991 GT3 better again so people say (not driven it)
So every model they seem to make it better, I would say the 991 GT3 RS and GT4 should be the best yet for electric steering feel esp as these are touted as motorsport cars and will prob launch together as such.
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 25th November 16:05
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