Proof that a manual is quicker than a PDK!!
Discussion
mrdemon said:
no one knows yet do they !
but yes I would like to try one before selling my R , but as cars are hard to get, I'll have to risk it..
it's very tempting to defer my GT4 slot to a 2016 car.
the 991 was poor, the boxster a bit better but still poor, the Cayman better again not great still (but a lot better), the 991 GT3 better again so people say (not driven it)
So every model they seem to make it better, I would say the 991 GT3 RS and GT4 should be the best yet for electric steering feel esp as these are touted as motorsport cars and will prob launch together as such.
Does the 981 Cayman have different steering to the 981 Boxster? I just assumed they were the same.but yes I would like to try one before selling my R , but as cars are hard to get, I'll have to risk it..
it's very tempting to defer my GT4 slot to a 2016 car.
the 991 was poor, the boxster a bit better but still poor, the Cayman better again not great still (but a lot better), the 991 GT3 better again so people say (not driven it)
So every model they seem to make it better, I would say the 991 GT3 RS and GT4 should be the best yet for electric steering feel esp as these are touted as motorsport cars and will prob launch together as such.
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 25th November 16:05
Having just watched the original vid it doesn't prove that a PDK is faster than a manual, for me all that it proves that a race driver is faster than a rally driver on a race track? no surprise there then.
if a car is faster in a straight line and the difference is as much as the vid suggests than even with 30kg extra weight the pdk should still be quicker over a lap, I would say with the same driver that track choice and gearing / getting corner exit will be the deciding factor on a lap, I haven't read this full thread but it would be interesting to see the gear ratios for both boxes, the 7th on a pdk is an overdrive so I would imagine there wont be such a big difference in the first 6 ?????
Just my 2p worth ref driver involvement , I have owned quite a range of cars and would certainly consider myself a petrolhead , when I bought my current car I spoke to a people that I know and value their opinion and they all rated the PDK so I bought one with a pdk box and I have to say I have not been disappointed , I can have the best of both worlds, I would say though that in Drive its woeful it just seems to want to save the planet upshifting at 1800rpm and getting into 7th as quick as it can ,if this is all the pdk had to offer I would never have bought one ! however in sport mode I don't find it a compromised drive at all, Sport plus for hooning on the twisties is fantastic it does pretty much everything that I would without any interaction from me , between corners sometimes it will hold onto 3rd when I would ideally be in 4th to get better drive but I simply usphift , think a lot of people are forgetting a PDK can be driven like a manual .
FWIW my gripe with the pdk is the steering wheel switches for gear selection , my car has the standard ones and they are just wrong in there operation , but it appears that can be overcome with a wheel swap to paddles which is on my to do list, I think with that done I will be more than happy with my car.
if a car is faster in a straight line and the difference is as much as the vid suggests than even with 30kg extra weight the pdk should still be quicker over a lap, I would say with the same driver that track choice and gearing / getting corner exit will be the deciding factor on a lap, I haven't read this full thread but it would be interesting to see the gear ratios for both boxes, the 7th on a pdk is an overdrive so I would imagine there wont be such a big difference in the first 6 ?????
Just my 2p worth ref driver involvement , I have owned quite a range of cars and would certainly consider myself a petrolhead , when I bought my current car I spoke to a people that I know and value their opinion and they all rated the PDK so I bought one with a pdk box and I have to say I have not been disappointed , I can have the best of both worlds, I would say though that in Drive its woeful it just seems to want to save the planet upshifting at 1800rpm and getting into 7th as quick as it can ,if this is all the pdk had to offer I would never have bought one ! however in sport mode I don't find it a compromised drive at all, Sport plus for hooning on the twisties is fantastic it does pretty much everything that I would without any interaction from me , between corners sometimes it will hold onto 3rd when I would ideally be in 4th to get better drive but I simply usphift , think a lot of people are forgetting a PDK can be driven like a manual .
FWIW my gripe with the pdk is the steering wheel switches for gear selection , my car has the standard ones and they are just wrong in there operation , but it appears that can be overcome with a wheel swap to paddles which is on my to do list, I think with that done I will be more than happy with my car.
SkinnyP said:
JeffC said:
think a lot of people are forgetting a PDK can be driven like a manual .
Pulling a paddle on a steering wheel is nothing like using a gearstick, clutch, brake and throttle pedal all at the same time.You have to be shown by somebody who has great skill. Then you spend the rest of your life trying to do it!
mollytherocker said:
Its so hard to explain in words isnt it? I fail every time.
You have to be shown by somebody who has great skill. Then you spend the rest of your life trying to do it!
look I said I would only show you once :-)You have to be shown by somebody who has great skill. Then you spend the rest of your life trying to do it!
I like this bit from a few posts up.
"when I bought my current car I spoke to a people that I know and value their opinion and they all rated the PDK so I bought one with a pdk box "
lol I don't talk to any one regarding what I want, because I would never get what I want !!!
done that twice now with a 350Z and a GT3, although you have to have owned a GT3 to tick a box other wise how can one ever comment on them :-p
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 25th November 19:20
mrdemon said:
I like this bit from a few posts up.
"when I bought my current car I spoke to a people that I know and value their opinion and they all rated the PDK so I bought one with a pdk box "
lol I don't talk to any one regarding what I want, because I would never get what I want !!!
done that twice now with a 350Z and a GT3, although you have to have owned a GT3 to tick a box other wise how can one ever comment on them :-p
I take the same stance on anything spouted on a forum, however the people I spoke to are good friends that are petrol heads / have raced cars and have personal experience of what I was looking at so I valued their opinion, I sell cars for a living so I know its always good to get input ."when I bought my current car I spoke to a people that I know and value their opinion and they all rated the PDK so I bought one with a pdk box "
lol I don't talk to any one regarding what I want, because I would never get what I want !!!
done that twice now with a 350Z and a GT3, although you have to have owned a GT3 to tick a box other wise how can one ever comment on them :-p
Edited by mrdemon on Tuesday 25th November 19:20
mollytherocker said:
SkinnyP said:
JeffC said:
think a lot of people are forgetting a PDK can be driven like a manual .
Pulling a paddle on a steering wheel is nothing like using a gearstick, clutch, brake and throttle pedal all at the same time.You have to be shown by somebody who has great skill. Then you spend the rest of your life trying to do it!
V8KSN said:
From Wikipedia....
When a car with a manual transmission is in motion with the clutch engaged, there is a mechanical connection between the engine and wheels which keep them in sync with each other. When shifting however, depressing the clutch is required. This breaks the mechanical connection between the engine and wheels, and the engine speed is no longer linked to that of the wheels.
When upshifting, this is usually not a problem, as the tendency of the engine to reduce speed itself without gas will slow it to loosely match the lower speed of the higher gear. However, when downshifting, the engine needs to speed up to come to speed with the wheels.
If the accelerator is not "blipped" (or briefly and quickly pressed to speed up the disengaged engine), the engine will have to take power from the wheels and momentum of the car to come to speed, which is often accompanied by a sudden deceleration of the vehicle due to the power suddenly going to the engine, often described as a "lurch" or "jolt".
This sudden external acceleration of the engine through the transmission also causes increased wear on the mechanics of the car. Therefore, a staple of advanced or professional manual-transmission driving is the "rev match", or "throttle blip", in which the driver quickly brings the engine up to speed with the wheels by use of the throttle. As downshifting is often necessary when accelerating out of a curve or other slow-down, advanced techniques such as the "heel-toe method" are often required, in which the toe of the right foot presses on the brake pedal, while the heel of the same foot blips the throttle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronized_down_shi...
That link starts: When a car with a manual transmission is in motion with the clutch engaged, there is a mechanical connection between the engine and wheels which keep them in sync with each other. When shifting however, depressing the clutch is required. This breaks the mechanical connection between the engine and wheels, and the engine speed is no longer linked to that of the wheels.
When upshifting, this is usually not a problem, as the tendency of the engine to reduce speed itself without gas will slow it to loosely match the lower speed of the higher gear. However, when downshifting, the engine needs to speed up to come to speed with the wheels.
If the accelerator is not "blipped" (or briefly and quickly pressed to speed up the disengaged engine), the engine will have to take power from the wheels and momentum of the car to come to speed, which is often accompanied by a sudden deceleration of the vehicle due to the power suddenly going to the engine, often described as a "lurch" or "jolt".
This sudden external acceleration of the engine through the transmission also causes increased wear on the mechanics of the car. Therefore, a staple of advanced or professional manual-transmission driving is the "rev match", or "throttle blip", in which the driver quickly brings the engine up to speed with the wheels by use of the throttle. As downshifting is often necessary when accelerating out of a curve or other slow-down, advanced techniques such as the "heel-toe method" are often required, in which the toe of the right foot presses on the brake pedal, while the heel of the same foot blips the throttle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronized_down_shi...
"Synchronized down shift rev-matching system (SynchroRev Match) is a technology invented by Nissan for use on manual transmissions. The technology was first used on the Nissan 370Z. In combination with the Engine Control Unit (ECU) and various sensors, the engine blips the throttle for the driver during both downshifts and upshifts to allow for better and smoother shifting, and improved handling."
I think the majority of automated manuals don't blip the throttle on down shifts. I think that most of them will down change so quickly that there simply isn't time to operate the throttle and wait for revs to rise and fall.
I think some sports cars have now been set up to do so, but I honestly do think that the main reason for that is, as the man said, because race car.
Except I don't think race cars do it either
. Listening to Hamiltons car at the weekend the speed of the downshifts under maximum braking is astonishing, and I doubt that the drive to the wheels is ever broken.Which in itself is another point - in the case of manuals, (or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals
, given that all the 'boxes we're talking about are manuals) how is control of the car improved by constantly breaking the drive to the wheels? heebeegeetee said:
That link starts:
"Synchronized down shift rev-matching system (SynchroRev Match) is a technology invented by Nissan for use on manual transmissions. The technology was first used on the Nissan 370Z. In combination with the Engine Control Unit (ECU) and various sensors, the engine blips the throttle for the driver during both downshifts and upshifts to allow for better and smoother shifting, and improved handling."
I think the majority of automated manuals don't blip the throttle on down shifts. I think that most of them will down change so quickly that there simply isn't time to operate the throttle and wait for revs to rise and fall.
I think some sports cars have now been set up to do so, but I honestly do think that the main reason for that is, as the man said, because race car.
Except I don't think race cars do it either. Listening to Hamiltons car at the weekend the speed of the downshifts under maximum braking is astonishing, and I doubt that the drive to the wheels is ever broken.
Which in itself is another point - in the case of manuals, (or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals, given that all the 'boxes we're talking about are manuals) how is control of the car improved by constantly breaking the drive to the wheels?
There is so much rubbish there, I really dont know where to start!"Synchronized down shift rev-matching system (SynchroRev Match) is a technology invented by Nissan for use on manual transmissions. The technology was first used on the Nissan 370Z. In combination with the Engine Control Unit (ECU) and various sensors, the engine blips the throttle for the driver during both downshifts and upshifts to allow for better and smoother shifting, and improved handling."
I think the majority of automated manuals don't blip the throttle on down shifts. I think that most of them will down change so quickly that there simply isn't time to operate the throttle and wait for revs to rise and fall.
I think some sports cars have now been set up to do so, but I honestly do think that the main reason for that is, as the man said, because race car.
Except I don't think race cars do it either
. Listening to Hamiltons car at the weekend the speed of the downshifts under maximum braking is astonishing, and I doubt that the drive to the wheels is ever broken.Which in itself is another point - in the case of manuals, (or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals
, given that all the 'boxes we're talking about are manuals) how is control of the car improved by constantly breaking the drive to the wheels? heebeegeetee said:
V8KSN said:
From Wikipedia....
When a car with a manual transmission is in motion with the clutch engaged, there is a mechanical connection between the engine and wheels which keep them in sync with each other. When shifting however, depressing the clutch is required. This breaks the mechanical connection between the engine and wheels, and the engine speed is no longer linked to that of the wheels.
When upshifting, this is usually not a problem, as the tendency of the engine to reduce speed itself without gas will slow it to loosely match the lower speed of the higher gear. However, when downshifting, the engine needs to speed up to come to speed with the wheels.
If the accelerator is not "blipped" (or briefly and quickly pressed to speed up the disengaged engine), the engine will have to take power from the wheels and momentum of the car to come to speed, which is often accompanied by a sudden deceleration of the vehicle due to the power suddenly going to the engine, often described as a "lurch" or "jolt".
This sudden external acceleration of the engine through the transmission also causes increased wear on the mechanics of the car. Therefore, a staple of advanced or professional manual-transmission driving is the "rev match", or "throttle blip", in which the driver quickly brings the engine up to speed with the wheels by use of the throttle. As downshifting is often necessary when accelerating out of a curve or other slow-down, advanced techniques such as the "heel-toe method" are often required, in which the toe of the right foot presses on the brake pedal, while the heel of the same foot blips the throttle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronized_down_shi...
That link starts: When a car with a manual transmission is in motion with the clutch engaged, there is a mechanical connection between the engine and wheels which keep them in sync with each other. When shifting however, depressing the clutch is required. This breaks the mechanical connection between the engine and wheels, and the engine speed is no longer linked to that of the wheels.
When upshifting, this is usually not a problem, as the tendency of the engine to reduce speed itself without gas will slow it to loosely match the lower speed of the higher gear. However, when downshifting, the engine needs to speed up to come to speed with the wheels.
If the accelerator is not "blipped" (or briefly and quickly pressed to speed up the disengaged engine), the engine will have to take power from the wheels and momentum of the car to come to speed, which is often accompanied by a sudden deceleration of the vehicle due to the power suddenly going to the engine, often described as a "lurch" or "jolt".
This sudden external acceleration of the engine through the transmission also causes increased wear on the mechanics of the car. Therefore, a staple of advanced or professional manual-transmission driving is the "rev match", or "throttle blip", in which the driver quickly brings the engine up to speed with the wheels by use of the throttle. As downshifting is often necessary when accelerating out of a curve or other slow-down, advanced techniques such as the "heel-toe method" are often required, in which the toe of the right foot presses on the brake pedal, while the heel of the same foot blips the throttle.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synchronized_down_shi...
"Synchronized down shift rev-matching system (SynchroRev Match) is a technology invented by Nissan for use on manual transmissions. The technology was first used on the Nissan 370Z. In combination with the Engine Control Unit (ECU) and various sensors, the engine blips the throttle for the driver during both downshifts and upshifts to allow for better and smoother shifting, and improved handling."
I think the majority of automated manuals don't blip the throttle on down shifts. I think that most of them will down change so quickly that there simply isn't time to operate the throttle and wait for revs to rise and fall.
I think some sports cars have now been set up to do so, but I honestly do think that the main reason for that is, as the man said, because race car.
Except I don't think race cars do it either
. Listening to Hamiltons car at the weekend the speed of the downshifts under maximum braking is astonishing, and I doubt that the drive to the wheels is ever broken.Which in itself is another point - in the case of manuals, (or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals
, given that all the 'boxes we're talking about are manuals) how is control of the car improved by constantly breaking the drive to the wheels? Err....
Edited to say, far too much to explain in words and its a lot easier to demonstrate so....if you plan to be in or around Berkshire in the spring or summer, let me know via a PM on here and I would be more than happy to take you out in my car and show you what you are missing
Edited by V8KSN on Tuesday 25th November 20:57
heebeegeetee said:
That link starts:
"Synchronized down shift rev-matching system (SynchroRev Match) is a technology invented by Nissan for use on manual transmissions. The technology was first used on the Nissan 370Z. In combination with the Engine Control Unit (ECU) and various sensors, the engine blips the throttle for the driver during both downshifts and upshifts to allow for better and smoother shifting, and improved handling."
I think the majority of automated manuals don't blip the throttle on down shifts. I think that most of them will down change so quickly that there simply isn't time to operate the throttle and wait for revs to rise and fall.
I think some sports cars have now been set up to do so, but I honestly do think that the main reason for that is, as the man said, because race car.
Except I don't think race cars do it either. Listening to Hamiltons car at the weekend the speed of the downshifts under maximum braking is astonishing, and I doubt that the drive to the wheels is ever broken.
Which in itself is another point - in the case of manuals, (or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals, given that all the 'boxes we're talking about are manuals) how is control of the car improved by constantly breaking the drive to the wheels?
"Synchronized down shift rev-matching system (SynchroRev Match) is a technology invented by Nissan for use on manual transmissions. The technology was first used on the Nissan 370Z. In combination with the Engine Control Unit (ECU) and various sensors, the engine blips the throttle for the driver during both downshifts and upshifts to allow for better and smoother shifting, and improved handling."
I think the majority of automated manuals don't blip the throttle on down shifts. I think that most of them will down change so quickly that there simply isn't time to operate the throttle and wait for revs to rise and fall.
I think some sports cars have now been set up to do so, but I honestly do think that the main reason for that is, as the man said, because race car.
Except I don't think race cars do it either
. Listening to Hamiltons car at the weekend the speed of the downshifts under maximum braking is astonishing, and I doubt that the drive to the wheels is ever broken.Which in itself is another point - in the case of manuals, (or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals
, given that all the 'boxes we're talking about are manuals) how is control of the car improved by constantly breaking the drive to the wheels? 
As othesr have said where to start?Listening to Hamiltons car downshifting, you can hear it blip the throttle. having said that a race car set up for the road would be pretty horrible.
blueg33 said:
As othesr have said where to start?Listening to Hamiltons car downshifting, you can hear it blip the throttle. having said that a race car set up for the road would be pretty horrible.
Knock a PDK box down into 2nd at about 50mph and it is extremely obvious. You get a tiny pause, a big blip and the drive then kicks back in quite hard. It's possible to get a really jerky change if you confuse the box by pissing about with the throttle (because,I think, the rev matching then gets f
ked up, but it might just be bad programming at the margins).How would you not break drive to the wheels? I'm so confused by the post a few up.
Not all people with a PDK car don't know what a clutch does,I promise.
V8KSN said:
I don't know where to start replying to this.
Err....
Edited to say, far too much to explain in words and its a lot easier to demonstrate so....if you plan to be in or around Berkshire in the spring or summer, let me know via a PM on here and I would be more than happy to take you out in my car and show you what you are missing
Er, in what, a manual or pdk? I have an (old) manual Boxster and have been driving manuals for 30 odd years, but haven't been in a Porsche pdk.Err....
Edited to say, far too much to explain in words and its a lot easier to demonstrate so....if you plan to be in or around Berkshire in the spring or summer, let me know via a PM on here and I would be more than happy to take you out in my car and show you what you are missing
Edited by V8KSN on Tuesday 25th November 20:57
Just to reiterate, my smart cars don't blip the throttle on the downchange (even though they have all the time in the world)
, the trucks I drove half a dozen years back had beautiful changes but no rev matching, my wife's dsg doesn't rev match, the car that Hamilton was driving to that I heard last was so fast on the downchanges (bang-bang-bang-bang down) that there was absolutely no rev matching goping on and indeed the only way it could change faster would be to program it to block change.I've been trying but haven't found a suitable vid of the current Le Mans cars to see if they're rev matching at the chicanes.
I'm happy to be shown to be wrong but I have a strong suspicion that the only automated manuals out there that are blipping throttles are in cars that *might* be described by some as being 'fashionable'.
On another note, I go to a pub on a Thursday night the location of which affords me a good hoon home, and I duly thrash whatever car i'm in, even smart car. Obviously I'm going to drive in the same manner at all times, so I don't agree at all with the previous comment that the pdk driver is not going to look ahead and select the moment to change gear etc.
All the gearboxes we are discussing are manuals, it's just that one has a selection method developed when Noah was a lad.
heebeegeetee said:
I think for the same reasons some of the cars have butterflies in the exhausts or even engine sounds through the speakers, the same reasons we had that vid recently showing Boxster burbling and blipping along the high street.
Or put it this way, the automated gearboxes in 44 tonne trucks don't blip throttles or rev match or anything, and they must be under a bit of strain when descending hills etc.
Disagree with the HGV comment, all 104 of my fleet with auto boxes blip the throttle to down change. The automated gearbox's in the vehicles have the synchros removed reducing the number of moving parts (and weight), improving reliability. I would imagine the automated manual boxes in many cars are similar (but don't know).Or put it this way, the automated gearboxes in 44 tonne trucks don't blip throttles or rev match or anything, and they must be under a bit of strain when descending hills etc.
Personally, I find it very rewarding to match revs and heel and toe etc when pressing on, its part of refining the driving skill set and understanding what is going on with the car and its balance.
In town I would prefer an auto/pdk, but for me town driving isnt done for enjoyment so it doesnt matter. I confess that I test drove an Evora IPS last week. Its a torque converter auto that also blips on down change and has a very fast change, it would be great in town but.......
I would rather lose .3 of second or so to 60mph and have the reward changing gear for myself.
Pdk is great if you like that sort of thing, but IMO it dilutes the experience and makes the cayman even more like a fast company car than it already is. (not necessarily bad, but not what I would want from a sports car)
In town I would prefer an auto/pdk, but for me town driving isnt done for enjoyment so it doesnt matter. I confess that I test drove an Evora IPS last week. Its a torque converter auto that also blips on down change and has a very fast change, it would be great in town but.......
I would rather lose .3 of second or so to 60mph and have the reward changing gear for myself.
Pdk is great if you like that sort of thing, but IMO it dilutes the experience and makes the cayman even more like a fast company car than it already is. (not necessarily bad, but not what I would want from a sports car)
I have some time on my hands while I'm waiting for a server to be restored so I thought I would try and answer this....
The clutch works as a connector for two different rotating masses (the engine and the gearbox) Once you disengage this connector (i.e push the clutch pedal down) one of the rotating masses will rotate at a different speed than the other.
In a manual car, you match the rotating speeds 'manually' by blipping the throttle. In a PDK equipped car, this is done for you automatically by the ECU.
For me It's all about being smoooth. It's about the skill involved in knowing how much to blip the throttle to match the two speeds according to various factors including the speed you are travelling, the gear you need and how heavy you need to be on the brakes to lose speed in order to match the right gear for the right corner. This is why I personally love manual gearboxes.... or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals
Anyway, I hope that helps
heebeegeetee said:
I think the majority of automated manuals don't blip the throttle on down shifts. I think that most of them will down change so quickly that there simply isn't time to operate the throttle and wait for revs to rise and fall.
They DO blip the throttle on performance cars, I am not sure about 'normal' cars but with quick cars It happens instantly and is all controlled by the ECU, how much of a blip will depend on various factors including speed and the gear you have selected.heebeegeetee said:
I think some sports cars have now been set up to do so, but I honestly do think that the main reason for that is, as the man said, because race car.
The phrase 'because race car' is an internet meme, a joke that is posted when people are confused about why something was done to a car either by the original manufacturer or a third party. A memetic phrase in which questions about cars are answered simply “because racecar”. For example, if one asked “Why doesn’t that car have any trunk space?” then the other would reply “Because race car.”heebeegeetee said:
Except I don't think race cars do it either . Listening to Hamiltons car at the weekend the speed of the downshifts under maximum braking is astonishing, and I doubt that the drive to the wheels is ever broken.
The drive to the wheels is ALWAYS broken when the clutch is released. It may be for only a fraction of a second in an F1 car but the drive to the wheels IS broken. . Listening to Hamiltons car at the weekend the speed of the downshifts under maximum braking is astonishing, and I doubt that the drive to the wheels is ever broken.The clutch works as a connector for two different rotating masses (the engine and the gearbox) Once you disengage this connector (i.e push the clutch pedal down) one of the rotating masses will rotate at a different speed than the other.
heebeegeetee said:
Which in itself is another point - in the case of manuals, (or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals , given that all the 'boxes we're talking about are manuals) how is control of the car improved by constantly breaking the drive to the wheels?
We have established above that the drive to the wheels is ALWAYS broken when the gears are changed. This is true of PDK gearboxes AND manual car gearboxes. , given that all the 'boxes we're talking about are manuals) how is control of the car improved by constantly breaking the drive to the wheels? In a manual car, you match the rotating speeds 'manually' by blipping the throttle. In a PDK equipped car, this is done for you automatically by the ECU.
For me It's all about being smoooth. It's about the skill involved in knowing how much to blip the throttle to match the two speeds according to various factors including the speed you are travelling, the gear you need and how heavy you need to be on the brakes to lose speed in order to match the right gear for the right corner. This is why I personally love manual gearboxes.... or should I say Ark manuals, or Flintstone manuals
Anyway, I hope that helps
anonymous said:
[redacted]
It's easy to get in PDK - just change down to 1st at any real speed. A very definite lurch because the software isn't perfect (changing down to 1st at speed is a bugger in a manual, too, so I let it off).Quite right on theatrical blipping. Too much of that crap going on with semi-auto boxes and, to be honest, most drivers of manuals who think they are Billy Big Spuds because they can heel and toe.
Mornin' all,
Just to address some points...
The proponents/manufacturers of the double clutch gearboxes claim that the torque from engine to wheels remains unbroken. Googling around, on one site I found some info stating that the double clutches operate simultaneously, opening and closing at the same time. If the drive is indeed broke then VW are claiming an upshift time of 8 milliseconds according to one source.
One of my fave routes if I can get it at the right time is my local by-pass, a dual carriageway which has two very small and very little used roundabouts on it. I like to use this road when possible to clean my brake discs up and will approach said roundabouts at 150 if poss.
I then brake very hard and heel-and-toe my way down the box, gratuitously rev matching and enjoying the sound of the flat six. It's just a bit of fun, but it surprises me to find that fans of the old tech on these will state that by having the drive to the rear wheels disconnected for so (relatively) long and having one hand on the wheel affords me greater control than having continuous torque to the wheels and both hands on the wheel whilst braking hard.
Of course I could simply matters by simply braking very hard and block-shifting from sixth to second, but if we're only going to change once does it matter how the gear is selected?
Exiting the roundabout obviously I am not going to block-shift upwards so I will be making my way up to 150 again while repeatedly breaking the torque to the wheels and only having one hand on the wheel much of the time. It seems I am told this is better.
Some people (notably Robm77 IIRC) will talk about a manual car affording better balance through bends etc but I remain puzzled as to how the method of selection of the gear affects the balance, other than when the gear selection took place in the old manual car the torque to the wheels would have been broken for far longer.
When driving my wife's dsg car, when setting off from traffic lights alongside other cars ( on a dc and not in a hurry) I always watch from the corner of my eye to see if the bonnet of the other car dips as it changes gear - which is what almost always happens - whilst of course no such thing happens with the dsg car and I immediately gain space on the other car as it breaks its torque to its wheels.
I am surprised to be told that this pitch changing is better and affords more controllability (with the other driver having one hand on the wheel) than my dsg car remains stable with the driver keeping both hands on the wheel.
Just to address some points...
The proponents/manufacturers of the double clutch gearboxes claim that the torque from engine to wheels remains unbroken. Googling around, on one site I found some info stating that the double clutches operate simultaneously, opening and closing at the same time. If the drive is indeed broke then VW are claiming an upshift time of 8 milliseconds according to one source.
One of my fave routes if I can get it at the right time is my local by-pass, a dual carriageway which has two very small and very little used roundabouts on it. I like to use this road when possible to clean my brake discs up and will approach said roundabouts at 150 if poss.
I then brake very hard and heel-and-toe my way down the box, gratuitously rev matching and enjoying the sound of the flat six. It's just a bit of fun, but it surprises me to find that fans of the old tech on these will state that by having the drive to the rear wheels disconnected for so (relatively) long and having one hand on the wheel affords me greater control than having continuous torque to the wheels and both hands on the wheel whilst braking hard.
Of course I could simply matters by simply braking very hard and block-shifting from sixth to second, but if we're only going to change once does it matter how the gear is selected?
Exiting the roundabout obviously I am not going to block-shift upwards so I will be making my way up to 150 again while repeatedly breaking the torque to the wheels and only having one hand on the wheel much of the time. It seems I am told this is better.
Some people (notably Robm77 IIRC) will talk about a manual car affording better balance through bends etc but I remain puzzled as to how the method of selection of the gear affects the balance, other than when the gear selection took place in the old manual car the torque to the wheels would have been broken for far longer.
When driving my wife's dsg car, when setting off from traffic lights alongside other cars ( on a dc and not in a hurry) I always watch from the corner of my eye to see if the bonnet of the other car dips as it changes gear - which is what almost always happens - whilst of course no such thing happens with the dsg car and I immediately gain space on the other car as it breaks its torque to its wheels.
I am surprised to be told that this pitch changing is better and affords more controllability (with the other driver having one hand on the wheel) than my dsg car remains stable with the driver keeping both hands on the wheel.
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