GT4 or modded Cayman R

[J-P]

Tough call this.

Spec of the CR is pretty much bang on what I'd ask for in a car (manual, NA, flat 6, mid engined, RWD, hydraulic steering, proper hand brake, buckets, PSE, sports suspension, etc etc) but I think it lacks a bit of poke and I'd like more feel.

My name is down for the new GT4 and it should be pretty epic but it will cost the thick end of £75k with toys I'd have thought.

Whereas I could keep the CR, spend £7k on a Stage 4 Cargraphics upgrade which would take the power up to 360-380BHP and then get a 3 way adjustable Exe TC suspension for £10k, which would hopefully get more feel. This would probably get me a car that is just about ideal for me but cost me a lot less (I'm not planning on selling if I upgrade so don't need to factor in the additional depreciation of a modded car).

Thoughts?

[Richie200]

GT4 spec unknown therefore difficult to gauge what route to take. Modding a Porsche will never see a financial return on investment (I find this rather strange as you will be improving the car but the wider market doesn't seem to appreciate this). I would wait until GT4 spec is officially released before making any decisions.

[J-P]

Richie200 said:

GT4 spec unknown therefore difficult to gauge what route to take. Modding a Porsche will never see a financial return on investment (I find this rather strange as you will be improving the car but the wider market doesn't seem to appreciate this). I would wait until GT4 spec is officially released before making any decisions.

True but I'm not bothered by the financial return on investment and some things for the GT4 are known; for example, it will have EPAS and it will have e-handbrake and I still need to find another £30-£35k to get into a GT4, so not exactly pocket change either.

[J-P]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes - I'm thinking that it's massively unlikely that the GT4 will have suspension that is anywhere near as good as a top end after market outfit like EXE TC. The problem with the 996, is that I can't stand the interior, it'd be something that I'd put up with to have a 996 GT3RS but they're out of reach for me now sadly and a 964 or 993 is just too old for my liking as my one car to use for track days etc. so I'd rather keep mine and spec it up than get something else and spec that up.

[keep it lit]

Richie200 said:

GT4 spec unknown therefore difficult to gauge what route to take. Modding a Porsche will never see a financial return on investment (I find this rather strange as you will be improving the car but the wider market doesn't seem to appreciate this). I would wait until GT4 spec is officially released before making any decisions.

^

[sootyvrs]

J-P said:

I still need to find another £30-£35k to get into a GT4, so not exactly pocket change either.

I guess this is the million dollar question if the GT4 will be work the additional outlay!?

The CR is already a very focused driving machine and more than enough for the public roads... I suspect you probably won't be able to drive the GT4 (when it comes out) any faster without taking serious risk... so the question perhaps is how often will you take it on track where I'm sure the performance advantage with become apparent?

I'm sure the GT4 will be one heck of a machine when it arrives and probably hailed one of the greatest drivers cars currently available but subjectively, I wonder if it can provide more fun than the CR? I suspect it will be a close call and there maybe some arguement to say on this occasion "less" is perhaps "more"...

[juansolo]

Tow bar on the M and get a Caterham

[J-P]

sootyvrs said:

J-P said:

I still need to find another £30-£35k to get into a GT4, so not exactly pocket change either.

I guess this is the million dollar question if the GT4 will be work the additional outlay!?

The CR is already a very focused driving machine and more than enough for the public roads... I suspect you probably won't be able to drive the GT4 (when it comes out) any faster without taking serious risk... so the question perhaps is how often will you take it on track where I'm sure the performance advantage with become apparent?

I'm sure the GT4 will be one heck of a machine when it arrives and probably hailed one of the greatest drivers cars currently available but subjectively, I wonder if it can provide more fun than the CR? I suspect it will be a close call and there maybe some arguement to say on this occasion "less" is perhaps "more"...

I'm convinced the GT4 will be utterly awesome. The high performance car division of Porsche don't really do clangers, so I'm sure it'll be brilliant. What I'm struggling with, is will it be worth £35k more than my CR? And if I'm prepared to spend £20k on mods to the CR, then which car would actually be better? Either car would be used almost exclusively for track days and weekend blatts, ironically, I could afford to do way more track days if I keep the CR as I'd have saved so much cash.

The other issue is although I really like the CR, I don't love it and it's hard to put a finger on why, so I'd hope the mods would transform the way I feel about the car too!

[J-P]

juansolo said:

Tow bar on the M and get a Caterham

It's sooo tempting but it would hardly ever get used in reality. The thing with the CR or GT4 is that you can still use them for shopping, driving to the station, driving long distances etc. Mrs. Will still get in it, if we're going out. With a Caterham it'd be just me all the time and track days only.

[IMIA]

As others have said wait to see the GT4 spec sheet then decide. The renderings I've seen of the GT4 look totally amazing. In terms of the Cayman R is it really in need of that sort of fettling? I understood the R to be sublime out of the box? Not sure i'd drop that sort of money modifying it and this is coming from someone who's spent not far of a Cayman R modifying one of my old bangers!

[J-P]

IMIA said:

As others have said wait to see the GT4 spec sheet then decide. The renderings I've seen of the GT4 look totally amazing. In terms of the Cayman R is it really in need of that sort of fettling? I understood the R to be sublime out of the box? Not sure i'd drop that sort of money modifying it and this is coming from someone who's spent not far of a Cayman R modifying one of my old bangers!

I'll definitely wait to see what the spec of the GT4 is like. The way it looks already has me thinking "want". If Porsche choose to equip it with double wishbones (as they did with the front end of the new Cayenne???), dry sump the NA engine, offer a manual and LSD, I don't think I'll be able to resist!

CR is a great car and when I'm driving it, I really enjoy and I suspect that if I do sell it, I'll really miss it a lot. But for me, it could be quicker and I'd like it to have more feel. Also, I do like the convenience of some of the mod cons, like phone prep, nav and iPod music library (even if I don't use them much).

[fioran0]

J-P

If you are serious about weighing this up you need to talk to John at BGB Motorsports.
They ran the caymans in Rolex and do a bunch of cool stuff with Caymans at all levels of mods, including 3.8 transplants.
They will be able to make you aware of just what is possible and back it up with actual metrics on what effects etc are based on what they are doing, seeing and logging.

This thread may suffice if you just want to talk it around but at the end of the day there's no one can give you any actual advice that's more substantial than anything pulled out of their a$$.
Your time will be better served talking with them and letting you properly evaluate at least one side of the equation with respect to what you can do and how it will work for you to then enable the GT4 route to be compared.

Edited by fioran0 on Sunday 4th January 00:54

[Trev450]

Wow. Talk about dangling a carrot, Neil. What a shame they are US based.

http://rennlist.com/forums/racing-and-drivers-educ...

[J-P]

fioran0 said:

J-P

If you are serious about weighing this up you need to talk to John at BGB Motorsports.
They ran the caymans in Rolex and do a bunch of cool stuff with Caymans at all levels of mods, including 3.8 transplants.
They will be able to make you aware of just what is possible and back it up with actual metrics on what effects etc are based on what they are doing, seeing and logging.

This thread may suffice if you just want to talk it around but at the end of the day there's no one can give you any actual advice that's more substantial than anything pulled out of their a$$.
Your time will be better served talking with them and letting you properly evaluate at least one side of the equation with respect to what you can do and how it will work for you to then enable the GT4 route to be compared.

Edited by fioran0 on Sunday 4th January 00:54

Thanks, Neil. I am serious about this, keeping the R would mean a lot more track time. I'll give John a call in the week and find out what's possible and get a view on costs.

[fioran0]

Sounds good. Obviously they aren't a practical option for doing the work given location but John is usually very helpful and should really be able to get you thinking. As I said, he will actually be able to tell you what an outcome will be for whatever is input based on what they are actually doing and have done.

Just to add some extra fuel; It would be interesting to know just what can be achieved using a 981 as a base instead of a 987 taking a similar approach as another comparison.
IF the R is at a premium just now then looking at the bigger picture one wonders whether swapping out the R for a 981 which will then be modded offers an approach as cost effective but with better outcomes. The work, particularly on the engine side may be cheaper using the 981 opening up some options.

Reading your post about creature comforts. Keep in mind its perfectly possible to take the car where you like from a driving and mechanical perspective while leaving the interior pretty much stock. The track or race safety/practical stuff doesn't need to be included if its not something thats wanted.

Not a BGB car but similar in scope to what they do and with a 3.8 etc..

[s_mcneil]

Very nice...

[Trev450]

OP - I'm following this with interest and would be grateful if you could post up your findings.

[J-P]

Trev450 said:

OP - I'm following this with interest and would be grateful if you could post up your findings.

Will do Trev.

[J-P]

fioran0 said:

Sounds good. Obviously they aren't a practical option for doing the work given location but John is usually very helpful and should really be able to get you thinking. As I said, he will actually be able to tell you what an outcome will be for whatever is input based on what they are actually doing and have done.

Just to add some extra fuel; It would be interesting to know just what can be achieved using a 981 as a base instead of a 987 taking a similar approach as another comparison.
IF the R is at a premium just now then looking at the bigger picture one wonders whether swapping out the R for a 981 which will then be modded offers an approach as cost effective but with better outcomes. The work, particularly on the engine side may be cheaper using the 981 opening up some options.

Reading your post about creature comforts. Keep in mind its perfectly possible to take the car where you like from a driving and mechanical perspective while leaving the interior pretty much stock. The track or race safety/practical stuff doesn't need to be included if its not something thats wanted.

Not a BGB car but similar in scope to what they do and with a 3.8 etc..

Look awesome. I've contacted John by email already, so I'll see what he says. I'd probably get the car and chassis very close to track spec but yes I'd keep the interior more or less as is. Not too worried about carpets, sound deadening etc, but like convenience of Nav and phone module - Mrs always calls me on my way to and from track days and Nav looks tidy and enables me to get to and from tracks I've never been to before. I'll think on what you've said on 981 platform, although there are some things I don't like such as the EPAS and eHandbrake. I do like the gear positioning more though but getting a 981 to spec and then spending some cash on making it awesome is likely to be more expensive in my view. With the CR I'll keep the oily bits, so if it does ever become a sought after collector's item, then it can be reverted to stock and sold at any time if needs be. Likelihood is though, that if I mod, then I'll just keep it forever.

[J-P]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Moose I'd seen that SVP car. I may even have contacted them around a year ago or so. Yes I think this is the kind of thing I'd like to do to the R but I really want the ExeTC suspension as I think that they would build dampers with the best balance for ride and handling, as builders of championship winning rally car dampers and if you're going to mod the car anyway, may as well go for it! I'd also seen that you can get a bigger oil pan for the CR, which I was considering too but it's £2k, which seemed like a lot!