GT4 or modded Cayman R

[J-P]

J12KJR said:

You really can't see a genuine apology when it is in black and white.
A poorly judged bit of humour my first post may have been but that was all it was.
Apologies to the OP as well.

No need to apologise to me. I've got what I wanted from the thread and had some fun reading the posts. But if anybody wants to give further views I'm

After I've tried the SVP car, I'll feedback on here but I won't actually buy any upgrades or make a decision until the spec for the GT4 is announced. I still think keeping the CR is the best option, it will mean more track days, keeping the M235i (and changing it every few years for another decent, practical performance car - M2 next or RS3), and getting a Macan GTS for the Mrs, which would make a great little fleet.

Gt4 would mean the bimmer has to go and can't be replaced, Mrs would still get Macan though, so still OK, but not as good.

[fioran0]

PR36 said:

Guys with respect maybe you are overthinking this... And What you are referring to has all been tried and tested by countless CS owners on planet 9, even to the point of considering booster replacement which was concluded to be far too much Agro to consider. Swap mc, lines, fluid, pads job done. Then it's diminishing returns and girodisc etc etc but can't see you would want that for a road car even with some track use.

I am curious regarding the overthinking part. I agree with you regarding the general trend of those intent on modifying cars wanting to reinvent the wheel (wasting their own time as well as forum space) only to end up with the same conclusion every single person told them on page 1; but I don't follow that logic onwards to calculating the impact of an MC change as quoted in your post.
An MC change for a soft and long brake pedal is as old as the hills thats for sure, however spending 20 mins with a sheet of paper and a calculator to quantify the results of any change is not something I would consider overthinking.

The booster comment is an interesting one, especially given that its a freebie with respect to the change when doing an MC anyways. While a change to a single (and away from a tandem booster) offers some unknowns, it would certainly seem worth the investigation given that the likely remedy is two long screws and perhaps two brake lines. Particularly since the huge boost factor on the cayman is a fundamental component of the pedal issues that countless people seem to be trying to remedy. A used booster can be had for around £50 so the risk isn't particularly high in terms of testing fitment when the rewards offered are significant.

[PR36]

fioran0 said:

PR36 said:

Guys with respect maybe you are overthinking this... And What you are referring to has all been tried and tested by countless CS owners on planet 9, even to the point of considering booster replacement which was concluded to be far too much Agro to consider. Swap mc, lines, fluid, pads job done. Then it's diminishing returns and girodisc etc etc but can't see you would want that for a road car even with some track use.

I am curious regarding the overthinking part. I agree with you regarding the general trend of those intent on modifying cars wanting to reinvent the wheel (wasting their own time as well as forum space) only to end up with the same conclusion every single person told them on page 1; but I don't follow that logic onwards to calculating the impact of an MC change as quoted in your post.
An MC change for a soft and long brake pedal is as old as the hills thats for sure, however spending 20 mins with a sheet of paper and a calculator to quantify the results of any change is not something I would consider overthinking.

The booster comment is an interesting one, especially given that its a freebie with respect to the change when doing an MC anyways. While a change to a single (and away from a tandem booster) offers some unknowns, it would certainly seem worth the investigation given that the likely remedy is two long screws and perhaps two brake lines. Particularly since the huge boost factor on the cayman is a fundamental component of the pedal issues that countless people seem to be trying to remedy. A used booster can be had for around £50 so the risk isn't particularly high in terms of testing fitment when the rewards offered are significant.

I wasn't suggesting there was no value in your contribution, only that the mod discussed has been tried and tested and is accepted as an improvement over the stock setup and there really aren't any alternatives. In regards to the booster my understanding is that changing it is not straightforward and is in fact a royal pita, there are threads about it on planet 9.

[J-P]

Heard back from John Tecce yesterday. Thanks for the tip, Neil. I'm going to get some quotes for parts and see where we get to.

Just hoping the weather holds out for the try out of the SVP car on Monday!

[J-P]

So, weather was just about as good as it gets for January, it was sunny and dry. Roads could have been a little drier but other than that couldn't really have asked for more.

Dom showed me around the car and explained some of the mods (what a lovely guy btw).

After that he switched it on - what an outrageous noise it makes! Very rude indeed. "It's got race cats", Dom explained. Hmmm, I thought, I really like that. Dom then gave me some suggestions of where to try the car and then left me to it.

I strapped on the harnesses (this by itself made the car feel one hell of a lot more serious than the R) and set off. Within about 200yds I realised this was precisely the sort of feel I was looking for and within about another 400yds, I'd decided the race cats were definitely not for me. The thing is, the noise is amazing on start up, idle and when you're on it but droning, loud and an utter PITA, the rest of the time. I know I couldn't live with the droning, it ruins a perfectly good road car.

So, things I picked up on. The gearbox had cup cables, which massively improved the feel and precision of the shift over my R (which I thought was pretty good until I drove the SVP car). The next thing I quickly picked up on was the overall quality of the damping, which performed the neat trick of being at least if not more comfortable than the R but also significantly enhancing the focus, I must say I also like the smaller diameter steering wheel. But the car turns in very well indeed and maintains the delightful mid corner balance of the R. When you push on a bit, it feels very, very good indeed and the noise and gear shift really give you the impression that you're driving a race car, it's fantastic! The one thing that I didn't like too much was the brake pedal but when I got back Dom explained that it didn't have the GT3 MC, so I'd imagine that this would be resolved by making this small mod.

Engine wise, the car felt about as quick as the R but the lightweight flywheel really did its thing for throttle response.

All in all it was a good day, I really like the car and have asked Dom to quote for a few bits. I have plenty of food for thought now.

Edited by J-P on Monday 19th January 19:28

[Trev450]

Sounds good. I shall be interested to hear what you decide to do.

[keep it lit]

glad you enjoyed the feel...... now get modding

[J-P]

I shall wait and see the spec of the GT4 but I think that the R with harness bar and harnesses, cup cables, SVP damper mods, QR wheel, GT3 MC, IPD plenum, GT3 throttle body, Michelin pilot sport cup 2 all round and a remap should be pretty spectacularly good to drive on track and still road friendly enough to drive around in the rest of the time too!

[fioran0]

Glad you made it out and also took the time to post up after it. Its nice to see.
Also glad you made contact with John, he has a ton of knowledge so hopefully had some insights to share.

As a big fan of modding Porsche cars its probably not too much of a surprise where my thoughts point to but just because I am that way inclined doesn't make it right for everyone. Take your time and get as much info as you can is the best advice, then do what you feel appeals to you more. It's all meant to be fun after all.
That being said, looking at someone like Jack Olsen and his car and the ownership experience he has had as a result of that process shows what can come out of having a car for years that you slowly make your own.
The new cars will continue to be faster and improvements over the outgoing models, but how much of an appeal this has is very much a part of you as a person and what you get out of your cars.

[PR36]

J-P said:

Engine wise, the car felt about as quick as the R but the lightweight flywheel really did its thing for throttle response.

Edited by J-P on Monday 19th January 19:28

I have an 07 CS which has pss9, h and r arb, gt3 mc, ssk, carnewal gt catback, ipd plenum and gt3 tb, desnork and softronic flash and it is awesome. To me the cayman in standard trim is a sharp knife thats been blunted and these mods give it back that sharpness whilst it still being a great road car. Next on my list are new oem engine mount and wevo tran mounts along with the numeric cables which seems another tried and trusted improvement. The reason for my reply is I've also considered the LWFW but the issue is you have to have the comp clutch fitted, and my RMS has been 'weeping' for a few months so whilst my indy said not to worry about the rms, they did say to fix it when the clutch is next out which i can easily see making the cost of the LWFW inc labour between £1500 to £2000 for me. Did it make that much of a difference to justify spending that sort of money on it?

[J-P]

Thanks, Neil. That Jack Olsen vid was very inspiring. I'm very tempted to just mod the R and get it exactly as I'd like and ignore the GT4. For me the best thing is that today demonstrated that it's possible to get a lot from the R and turn it into something that is truly spectacular rather than just very good.

[Slippydiff]

J-P said:

I'm very tempted to just mod the R and get it exactly as I'd like and ignore the GT4. For me the best thing is that today demonstrated that it's possible to get a lot from the R and turn it into something that is truly spectacular rather than just very good.

Ex-rally boy comes up trumps modding road cars into something really rather good. Quelle surprise ..........



Good to meet you J-P

[J-P]

Slippydiff said:

J-P said:

I'm very tempted to just mod the R and get it exactly as I'd like and ignore the GT4. For me the best thing is that today demonstrated that it's possible to get a lot from the R and turn it into something that is truly spectacular rather than just very good.

Ex-rally boy comes up trumps modding road cars into something really rather good. Quelle surprise ..........



Good to meet you J-P

Cheers, Henry

[fioran0]

J-P said:

Thanks, Neil. That Jack Olsen vid was very inspiring. I'm very tempted to just mod the R and get it exactly as I'd like and ignore the GT4. For me the best thing is that today demonstrated that it's possible to get a lot from the R and turn it into something that is truly spectacular rather than just very good.

The one potential snag is what engine is in the GT4. If its something special (and I am not expecting it to be, nor I am talking simply HP increase) then it may change the proposition quite dramatically.
I agree, the whole story with Jack Olsen is one that, if you are that way inclined, really speaks to possibilities and another dimension to car ownership.

[J-P]

PR36 said:

I have an 07 CS which has pss9, h and r arb, gt3 mc, ssk, carnewal gt catback, ipd plenum and gt3 tb, desnork and softronic flash and it is awesome. To me the cayman in standard trim is a sharp knife thats been blunted and these mods give it back that sharpness whilst it still being a great road car. Next on my list are new oem engine mount and wevo tran mounts along with the numeric cables which seems another tried and trusted improvement. The reason for my reply is I've also considered the LWFW but the issue is you have to have the comp clutch fitted, and my RMS has been 'weeping' for a few months so whilst my indy said not to worry about the rms, they did say to fix it when the clutch is next out which i can easily see making the cost of the LWFW inc labour between £1500 to £2000 for me. Did it make that much of a difference to justify spending that sort of money on it?

Is the LWFW worth it? I think so. It makes throttle blips awesome and the speed at which the engine picks up is impressive. On paper it sounds like it's a little bit of a st mod but in practice, it adds to the driving experience, I'm going to have it. You should try it first though, just because I liked it, doesn't mean that you will.

[J-P]

fioran0 said:

J-P said:

Thanks, Neil. That Jack Olsen vid was very inspiring. I'm very tempted to just mod the R and get it exactly as I'd like and ignore the GT4. For me the best thing is that today demonstrated that it's possible to get a lot from the R and turn it into something that is truly spectacular rather than just very good.

The one potential snag is what engine is in the GT4. If its something special (and I am not expecting it to be, nor I am talking simply HP increase) then it may change the proposition quite dramatically.
I agree, the whole story with Jack Olsen is one that, if you are that way inclined, really speaks to possibilities and another dimension to car ownership.

I know - double wishbones and dry sumped, high revving NA engine would get me all of a quiver. Oh well, not long to wait now, until we find out what they've done.

ETA - the other thing that was pretty cool about going to SVP was seeing just how far they could go. They had a Cayman which when finished will weigh 800kg it's got a SADEV sequential, full aero, cage, supercharger, 3.9l engine and is also dry sumped as well as race dampers. Of course that's waaay too far for my needs but good to know how far you can push the envelope if the bug really takes you!

Edited by J-P on Monday 19th January 20:54

[PR36]

J-P said:

PR36 said:

I have an 07 CS which has pss9, h and r arb, gt3 mc, ssk, carnewal gt catback, ipd plenum and gt3 tb, desnork and softronic flash and it is awesome. To me the cayman in standard trim is a sharp knife thats been blunted and these mods give it back that sharpness whilst it still being a great road car. Next on my list are new oem engine mount and wevo tran mounts along with the numeric cables which seems another tried and trusted improvement. The reason for my reply is I've also considered the LWFW but the issue is you have to have the comp clutch fitted, and my RMS has been 'weeping' for a few months so whilst my indy said not to worry about the rms, they did say to fix it when the clutch is next out which i can easily see making the cost of the LWFW inc labour between £1500 to £2000 for me. Did it make that much of a difference to justify spending that sort of money on it?

Is the LWFW worth it? I think so. It makes throttle blips awesome and the speed at which the engine picks up is impressive. On paper it sounds like it's a little bit of a st mod but in practice, it adds to the driving experience, I'm going to have it. You should try it first though, just because I liked it, doesn't mean that you will.

No worries, thanks for your reply

[GT4owner]

J-P said:

I think that the R with harness bar and harnesses, cup cables, SVP damper mods, QR wheel, GT3 MC, IPD plenum, GT3 throttle body, Michelin pilot sport cup 2 all round and a remap should be pretty spectacularly good to drive on track and still road friendly enough to drive around in the rest of the time too!

still be pants, as you are not fitting any adjustable LCA so you be limited on your camber to about -1 degree which is st.
And not changing out the manafold which has 4 x 400 cell cats in it, or having engine mounts or rear toe arms !!

just sayin.
the MC imo does nothing but make the pedal travel shorter the IPD with GT3 throttle passes too much air for that 3.4 DFi lump so not needed.

you will see no performance gain until you change the front manifold, and you will go no faster on track until you can dial in some camber.


You should come and try my Spyder which imo has the right mods for the Gen 2 car before throwing your money down the toilet.
Seems totally pointless waste of money for your chosen mods.

remember the gen 1 car had a tiny Throttle body and cats in the rear section, the Gen 2 flows enough air and all 4 cats are in the manifold.

So all in all bad advice from every one on here imo, inc SVP if that's what they came up with.

Edited by GT4owner on Monday 19th January 20:50

[J-P]

GT4owner said:

J-P said:

I think that the R with harness bar and harnesses, cup cables, SVP damper mods, QR wheel, GT3 MC, IPD plenum, GT3 throttle body, Michelin pilot sport cup 2 all round and a remap should be pretty spectacularly good to drive on track and still road friendly enough to drive around in the rest of the time too!

still be pants, as you are not fitting any adjustable LCA so you be limited on your camber to about -1 degree which is st.
And not changing out the manafold which has 4 x 400 cell cats in it, or having engine mounts or rear toe arms !!

just sayin.
the MC imo does nothing but make the pedal travel shorter the IPD with GT3 throttle passes too much air for that 3.4 DFi lump so not needed.

you will see no performance gain until you change the front manifold, and you will go no faster on track until you can dial in some camber.


You should come and try my Spyder which imo has the right mods for the Gen 2 car before throwing your money down the toilet.
Seems totally pointless waste of money for your chosen mods.

remember the gen 1 car had a tiny Throttle body and cats in the rear section, the Gen 2 flows enough air and all 4 cats are in the manifold.

So all in all bad advice from every one on here imo, inc SVP if that's what they came up with.

Edited by GT4owner on Monday 19th January 20:50

Actually, I'd get your bits done too!

[J-P]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Yes thanks ever so much for the tip Cmoose. I agree, it would have been very easy for Porsche to make the car like that out of the box. Odd that they didn't