Cayman GT4 - Porsche now accepting deposits. (Jan 2015.)

[Phooey]

CheesyFootballs said:

I don't do sloppy seconds.

;-)

You sticking well to that New Years resolution then

[bcr5784]

d41d8cd9 said:

It doesn't. Porsche confused the issue by referring to the design of the non-Motorsports engine as "integrated dry-sump", but in reality it is nothing more than a wet-sump system.

Of the water-cooled era, only the GT1-based engines and the 991 GT3 have true dry-sump systems.

Does the crankshaft share a common chamber with the oil tank? If so it's wet sump. If not it's (to me) dry sump - whether the oil tank is integrated with the block or not. Clearly if the oil is below the the crank (even if separate from it) it may have ground clearance effects - which may be a factor when racing - but not necessarily oil surge effects. Which is it?

[seawise]

Steiger said:

Only trying to share what I believe to be genuine information. Speculative order/loi WAS lodged 6 years ago in anticipation of the "hot" Cayman that became the "R". I didn't buy and kept gt3.
Such mildly offensive comment is why I read and don' post on forums. I too hope we are in for a nice surprise!! In the meantime, Cheerio.

try not to take offense - there are a lot of morons on this forum, but the odd normal person with a life away from keyboards, as well as a few genuinely knowledgeable enthusiasts.

[tyrrell]

seawise said:

try not to take offense - there are a lot of morons on this forum, but the odd normal person with a life away from keyboards, as well as a few genuinely knowledgeable enthusiasts.

+ 1

[tyrrell]

Any more details on the Hotter Boxster was going to place an order for a BGTS may hold off now though.

[TheAnimal]

tyrrell said:

Any more details on the Hotter Boxster was going to place an order for a BGTS may hold off now though.

You can register your interest with your dealer now. 3 OPCs told me the new Boxster Spyder (or whatever it will be called) will launch soon after the GT4.

[GT4owner]

Mid April....

loi are very small at OPC's so any one wanting one should get one if they do a loi now. even though build numbers are less than the GT4.

[tyrrell]

Long as its got a decent roof not one the you have to spend 20 mins in the pooring rain trying to affix to the vehicle lol.

[diabolik]

bcr5784 said:

I'll eat my helmet if it's manual only. I can't really see any reason why they wouldn't offer both manual and auto, assuming there is worldwide demand for both (there appears to be similar demand for manuals in the US as in the UK for example).

But then I can't see why they didn't offer the GT3 as a manual also, unless there is some obscure technical reason. The turbo 911s only come as PDK now also, but they probably appeal to a slightly different market.

Hi I think that the lack of manual on the GT3 was due to the deficiences of the 7 speed manual gearbox for the GT3 standard. Given that most people nowadays want a pdk and given that they would have invested money I a new manual....we had the GT3 as a pdk only. Just speculating.

[RBT0]

d41d8cd9 said:

RBT0 said:

Cayman already has dry sump? :/

It doesn't. Porsche confused the issue by referring to the design of the non-Motorsports engine as "integrated dry-sump", but in reality it is nothing more than a wet-sump system.

Of the water-cooled era, only the GT1-based engines and the 991 GT3 have true dry-sump systems.

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/cayman/cayman/drive/integrated-dry-sump-lubrication/

?

What is the difference to a standard cheap wet sump?

[bcr5784]

RBT0 said:

http://www.porsche.com/usa/models/cayman/cayman/dr...

?

What is the difference to a standard cheap wet sump?

See my previous posting - it doesn't matter whether the oil tank is part of the block or not. My apologies if I'm teaching granddad to suck eggs - there are two/three problems with a wet sump

1) Oil sloshes around and in extreme cornering/braking can result in oil starvation because the oil all goes away from the pick up point
2) Oil sloshes around and hits the crank resulting in power loss.
3) Because the sump is lower than the crank, ground clearance is reduced.

In truth at the sort of cornering forces road cars produce both 1) and 2) can be significantly alleviated by baffling and design of the pick up arrangements (high powered bikes do it, but in their case it's only really acceleration forces that come into play). 3 may or may not be a problem.

It really matters not whether the oil tank is integral to the engine or not if the tank is separated from crankcase both 1 and 2 are easier to solve. In fact there is an advantage if the oil tank is integral to the engine - the oil will warm up faster.

But since I haven't seen the details of the oiling arrangements I'm not sure whether it's a true dry sump or not. A quick glance on-line suggests it is a true dry sump, but I'm not sure, which is why I posed the question.

[RBT0]

Ok, you are not sure, you haven't seen Cayman solution.

I would not say it is not dry sump just because it is integrated with the engine, but I understand your doubts.

[TDT]

A true dry sump solution has the Oil reservoir/tank external to the engine. Mezger engine cars and 991 GT3 are examples - Dry Sump is a mis-noma - as these car don't really have a sump at all. There are pumps on the oil in and oil out sides.

The integrated solution like in the 996/997/991 911 Carreras, 986/987/981 Boxsters & Caymans has the oil tank under the engine with extra pickup points and baffles so help overcome most acceleration/deceleration scenarios - lateral and longitudinal.

Edited by TDT on Friday 16th January 22:47

[UH-Matt]

I only put LOI in a couple of weeks ago when picking up a new 'normal' Cayman. They said "I am sure we can get you a car" but I have my doubts. Seems to be a lot of interest and I am told only 100 for the UK.

[RBT0]

Thanks for the explanation TDT.

[J-P]

Steiger said:

Only trying to share what I believe to be genuine information. Speculative order/loi WAS lodged 6 years ago in anticipation of the "hot" Cayman that became the "R". I didn't buy and kept gt3.
Such mildly offensive comment is why I read and don' post on forums. I too hope we are in for a nice surprise!! In the meantime, Cheerio.

Ignore the overly aggressive knob ends. The more sensible, decent people on here the better.

[bcr5784]

TDT said:

A true dry sump solution has the Oil reservoir/tank external to the engine. Mezger engine cars and 991 GT3 are examples - Dry Sump is a mis-noma - as these car don't really have a sump at all. There are pumps on the oil in and oil out sides.

Edited by TDT on Friday 16th January 22:47

Absolutely not true, the location of the oil tank is irrelevant. It's whether the engine oil is/or is not slopping around in the crankcase that is the determinant of whether it's dry or wet sump. My question was not whether the oil tank was separate, but whether the oil was in the sump. If what you say is correct it is definitely dry sump.

An integral dry sump is BETTER than a separate oil tank because it warms the oil faster. Although bikes are usually wet sump, some are dry sump and some have separate oil tank and some not.

I don't regard Wikipedia as an absolutely reliable source of information, but in this case they have got the definition correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump

Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 17th January 08:17

Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 17th January 08:20

[TDT]

bcr5784 said:

TDT said:

A true dry sump solution has the Oil reservoir/tank external to the engine. Mezger engine cars and 991 GT3 are examples - Dry Sump is a mis-noma - as these car don't really have a sump at all. There are pumps on the oil in and oil out sides.

Edited by TDT on Friday 16th January 22:47

Absolutely not true, the location of the oil tank is irrelevant. It's whether the engine oil is/or is not slopping around in the crankcase that is the determinant of whether it's dry or wet sump. My question was not whether the oil tank was separate, but whether the oil was in the sump. If what you say is correct it is definitely dry sump.

An integral dry sump is BETTER than a separate oil tank because it warms the oil faster. Although bikes are usually wet sump, some are dry sump and some have separate oil tank and some not.

I don't regard Wikipedia as an absolutely reliable source of information, but in this case they have got the definition correct. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dry_sump

Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 17th January 08:17

Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 17th January 08:20

Ok then, for the purposes of semantics let me replace the word true in my original reply with traditional.
So it will now read:

A traditional dry sump solution has the Oil reservoir/tank external to the engine. Mezger engine cars and 991 GT3 are examples - Dry Sump is a mis-noma - as these car don't really have a sump at all. There are pumps on the oil in and oil out sides.

The thing is, on the Mezger cars and the 991 GT3, dry sump is explicitly called out with no additional descriptors or qualifications.
For the regular 911, Boxster and Cayman - it is an '[b[integrated[/b[ dry sump' - why qualify? either it is or it isn't dry sump and as you say the position of the tank is not relevant.

As you say, the benefit of a wet sump or an 'integrated dry sump' solution is that you can get to operating temp potentially more quickly than on a traditional dry sump car which by virtue of its design for high load conditions (external tank) is doing a better job of cooling oil.

[retreat]

Cunno said:

Phooey said:

Nottingham OPC. £3k refundable deposit - paid October 2014. Number 4 on list.
:

Interesting I was told the same 4th on list.

No, I'm number 4!

[RBT0]

TDT cannot understand. Bcr seems right. It is a dry sump, but located into the engine. No swash into the crankshaft.