So, now that the GT4 specs are finally known....

[g7jhp]

Steve Rance said:

So much more potetial in the 997 Gen 1. The engine alone would make it a no brainer or me

Not a 997.1 GT3 owner are you Steve?

I can understand the argument for buying either a 997.1 GT3 or a Csayman GT4.

I suspect for many a brand new Cayman GT4 with 991 GT3 tech and warranty would beat buying a 8/9 year old car with 30k+ miles and that potential £10k+_ GT3 refresh.

Be interesting to see the number of RHD GT4's that reach the UK and whether there is a similar spec Boxster Syder/GT4 and wilder GT4 RS on the way. Let's hope so as it's great to see exciting new cars.

[Mario149]

I think what'd be quite interesting in this discussion is if 997.1 GT3 values and GT4 values stay at similar parity for the next few years. That means that in a couple of years time once everyone has had a good go in their respective cars, we can each move onto the other for little or no cost Bets of both worlds! Then we can all revisit this thread and swap our answers to the opposite side

[Beedub]

J-P said:

This is mine... I managed to get spec to £73k when I did GT4 build on the configurator but it didn't have everything I'd want.

that looks very tasty , very tasty indeed!!

can you give me a rough outline on the mod list intended and what is the end goal from the car, are you aiming to be able to match ogt4 performance or exceed in certain departments?

[braddo]

hondansx said:

braddo said:

J-P said:

Also what the hell did they do to the engine? It's around 20g/km worse than a C2S and is supposedly de-tuned version of the same engine - bizarre!

I wonder if it is a clue that they shortened the gearing?

7 speed versus 6 speed.

Wouldn't the 7 speed be shorter geared than the 6 (in those gears used in the test)?

[Mario149]

braddo said:

hondansx said:

braddo said:

J-P said:

Also what the hell did they do to the engine? It's around 20g/km worse than a C2S and is supposedly de-tuned version of the same engine - bizarre!

I wonder if it is a clue that they shortened the gearing?

7 speed versus 6 speed.

Wouldn't the 7 speed be shorter geared than the 6 (in those gears used in the test)?

My understanding is that 7th is an overdrive/cruising gear

[J-P]

Beedub said:

J-P said:

This is mine... I managed to get spec to £73k when I did GT4 build on the configurator but it didn't have everything I'd want.

that looks very tasty , very tasty indeed!!

can you give me a rough outline on the mod list intended and what is the end goal from the car, are you aiming to be able to match ogt4 performance or exceed in certain departments?

Thanks Beedub

First and foremost, I want to improve feel on the car. So the plan is, GT3 master cylinder (I already have GT3 brake ducts, braided hose and EBC yellow pads with Castrol SRF fluid), so that's the first thing to do to get the feel I want.

Then I want cup cables for the gearshift - gives the gearshift a proper rifle bolt feel.

The next thing I'll get is an Intrax suspension with black Titan coating, full corner weighting, camber plates and geo.

I think that'll be it for this year in terms of funds available, I reckon.

Then I want to get an engine remap, with full Capristo exhaust, intake plenum, air filter and GT3 throttle body. That should be enough to get me around 30BHP, so about 360BHP. That really should be plenty for the car's mass. It'll be like a mid engined 996GT3 in terms of pace and feel (in my head anyway). I'm looking forward to it.

[Slippydiff]

J-P said:

Thanks Beedub

First and foremost, I want to improve feel on the car. So the plan is, GT3 master cylinder (I already have GT3 brake ducts, braided hose and EBC yellow pads with Castrol SRF fluid), so that's the first thing to do to get the feel I want.

Then I want cup cables for the gearshift - gives the gearshift a proper rifle bolt feel.

The next thing I'll get is an Intrax suspension with black Titan coating, full corner weighting, camber plates and geo.

I think that'll be it for this year in terms of funds available, I reckon.

Then I want to get an engine remap, with full Capristo exhaust, intake plenum, air filter and GT3 throttle body. That should be enough to get me around 30BHP, so about 360BHP. That really should be plenty for the car's mass. It'll be like a mid engined 996GT3 in terms of pace and feel (in my head anyway). I'm looking forward to it.

Have you done your homework on the Intrax kit JP ?

"Like a mid engined 996 GT3 in terms of feel" ??????? You're welcome to drive mine when it's been fettled, but rest assured, no Cayman R/S, modded or not, will feel anything like a 996 GT3 (in your head or otherwise)
Sorry, but that's the truth, and it's pointless kidding yourself otherwise.

[braddo]

What about a mid-engind 996 GT3?

[PorscheGT4]

Slippydiff said:

"Like a mid engined 996 GT3 in terms of feel" ??????? but rest assured, no Cayman R/S, modded or not, will feel anything like a 996 GT3 (in your head or otherwise)

That's a good thing :-p

[HokumPokum]

991 CS engine with power kit with slightly more restrictive cayman exhaust so not 430hp but not a long way off.

Quoted is 385 HP. you make up your mind on that one.

A modded CR for comparison? Can't help thinking you'll spend more, have a "to put it kindly" unique machine, and always think about a GT4 when u see one.

IMHO, if not financially constraint and are in line at your dealer, get a gt4

[nsm3]

Yeah, but what about the high centre console, how would he be able to change gear?

I hear Mr.D is planning on ripping his out on the OPC car park?

[J-P]

Slippydiff said:

J-P said:

Thanks Beedub

First and foremost, I want to improve feel on the car. So the plan is, GT3 master cylinder (I already have GT3 brake ducts, braided hose and EBC yellow pads with Castrol SRF fluid), so that's the first thing to do to get the feel I want.

Then I want cup cables for the gearshift - gives the gearshift a proper rifle bolt feel.

The next thing I'll get is an Intrax suspension with black Titan coating, full corner weighting, camber plates and geo.

I think that'll be it for this year in terms of funds available, I reckon.

Then I want to get an engine remap, with full Capristo exhaust, intake plenum, air filter and GT3 throttle body. That should be enough to get me around 30BHP, so about 360BHP. That really should be plenty for the car's mass. It'll be like a mid engined 996GT3 in terms of pace and feel (in my head anyway). I'm looking forward to it.

Have you done your homework on the Intrax kit JP ?

"Like a mid engined 996 GT3 in terms of feel" ??????? You're welcome to drive mine when it's been fettled, but rest assured, no Cayman R/S, modded or not, will feel anything like a 996 GT3 (in your head or otherwise)
Sorry, but that's the truth, and it's pointless kidding yourself otherwise.

Slippy,that was a tongue in cheek comment. My car will never feel anything like a 996 GT3, it's mid engined for a start and it's missing that fabulous engine!! If I can get the HP to around 360, though - it should have a similar power to weight ratio.

On the Intrax - yes did some homework, saw that you might have seen a post where somebody was ditching their 1K2s for Motons. Found somebody who ditched their Intrax to revert back to OEM too but also found a few 997GT3RS owners raving about them and the BMW crowd seem to love them. Looks like they've been very well considered for road use and occasional track day, which is perfect for me - with Black Titan coating, should be pretty much maintenance free too. Founder has a very good reputation (launched Ohlins in Holland) and focus is on both increased handling performance and ride comfort. Anyway, suspension mods need to be set-up right and CG will do that for me and actually suggested 1K2, so I'd be very disappointed if I didn't manage to get exactly what I want.

Edited by J-P on Friday 6th February 09:48

[PorscheGT4]

nsm3 said:

Yeah, but what about the high centre console, how would he be able to change gear?

I hear Mr.D is planning on ripping his out on the OPC car park?

cannot like every thing about a car can we ;-)

I would change quite a bit about the 981 looks wise.

[fioran0]

HokumPokum said:

991 CS engine with power kit with slightly more restrictive cayman exhaust so not 430hp but not a long way off.

Quoted is 385 HP. you make up your mind on that one.

But it's not getting the x51 engine, it's the normal 3.8L 9A1 that makes 400HP in the 991 that's coming in the GT4 right?.
Add in exhaust and intake restrictions on the Cayman and it's not hard to see how the 385HP comes.
FWIW, every 3.8 9A1 non x51 I've seen on a dyno in 911s has been puffing like crazy by the time its near the top of its range. I have yet to see anything about that unit that gives an indication that its a charger.

[Steve Rance]

g7jhp said:

Not a 997.1 GT3 owner are you Steve?

I can understand the argument for buying either a 997.1 GT3 or a Csayman GT4.

I suspect for many a brand new Cayman GT4 with 991 GT3 tech and warranty would beat buying a 8/9 year old car with 30k+ miles and that potential £10k+_ GT3 refresh.

Be interesting to see the number of RHD GT4's that reach the UK and whether there is a similar spec Boxster Syder/GT4 and wilder GT4 RS on the way. Let's hope so as it's great to see exciting new cars.

Yes, I have a 977 GT3! The reason that I bought it was precisely because I knew how much unlocked potential there was in the car so I kinda already have the heads up on this one.

[TDT]

fioran0 said:

But it's not getting the x51 engine, it's the normal 3.8L 9A1 that makes 400HP in the 991 that's coming in the GT4 right?.
Add in exhaust and intake restrictions on the Cayman and it's not hard to see how the 385HP comes.
FWIW, every 3.8 9A1 non x51 I've seen on a dyno in 911s has been puffing like crazy by the time its near the top of its range. I have yet to see anything about that unit that gives an indication that its a charger.

I remember having a 991 C2S and the Silverstone PEC last year. The '400HP' in it didn't butt dyno anyway near the 408HP that i had in my 997 GTS which comes with X51.

The 991 3.8 engine is carried over from the 997.2 car right? Just cynically revised software to lock it down from tuners.

[fioran0]

I would say then that your butt is wonderfully calibrated.
I have only seen a few 991s dyno up but all have been fairly consistent; and they all gave wheel figures that suggested that the 400HP tag was somewhat on the hopeful side of things (being diplomatic) as it huffs and puffs its way up the revs. The usual caveats apply of course, namely that dynos are what they are.
It is interesting you bring up the 997.2 engine origins there. It was rated at 385HP back in 2009 when it was in that car and the newly packaged unit in the 991 seems to still give power plots that look fairly similar.

Its also interesting to look across the GT4 and the options list. If anyone was still holding out in denial that Porsche have; for a long time now, operated a purely value based pricing structure (rather than one based on actual cost) they surely cannot be still of this mind.
The cars they make are designed specifically and with great purpose to fill perceived gaps in the market with pricing set at the limit they think the market will take at the units they need. It bears no relation to the costs to either manufacture, build or design. Its a volume manufacturer approach pretending to be otherwise. All IMHO of course.

Edited by fioran0 on Friday 6th February 13:13

[J-P]

fioran0 said:

I would say then that your butt is wonderfully calibrated.

[TDT]

fioran0 said:

I would say then that your butt is wonderfully calibrated.

lol.. I say the same to my wife all the time.

The point i was driving at was that the 400 in the 991 didn't feel the same as the 400 or 408 in the 997 GTS, rather than that I can tell the difference between 400 & 408. It felt more like it was less across the rev range vs the GTS

fioran0 said:

Its also interesting to look across the GT4 and the options list. If anyone was still holding out in denial that Porsche have; for a long time now, operated a purely value based pricing structure (rather than one based on actual cost) they surely cannot be still of this mind.
The cars they make are designed specifically and with great purpose to fill perceived gaps in the market with pricing set at the limit they think the market will take at the units they need. It bears no relation to the costs to either manufacture, build or design. Its a volume manufacturer approach pretending to be otherwise.

I also agree entirely with this.

Edited by TDT on Friday 6th February 14:33

[HokumPokum]

fioran0 said:

HokumPokum said:

991 CS engine with power kit with slightly more restrictive cayman exhaust so not 430hp but not a long way off.

Quoted is 385 HP. you make up your mind on that one.

But it's not getting the x51 engine, it's the normal 3.8L 9A1 that makes 400HP in the 991 that's coming in the GT4 right?.
Add in exhaust and intake restrictions on the Cayman and it's not hard to see how the 385HP comes.
FWIW, every 3.8 9A1 non x51 I've seen on a dyno in 911s has been puffing like crazy by the time its near the top of its range. I have yet to see anything about that unit that gives an indication that its a charger.

I have been told that it is the X51 lump with a restrictive exhaust, but i am not too upset if it isn't. what matters is that the rear axle is double wishbone. Or isn't it?