981 Spyder - Speculation
Discussion
Extract from article on GT4 published today...
"Expect a sibling or two for the GT4 before too long. Andreas Preuninger, manager for Porsche’s motorsport and high performance car division, hinted heavily that another manual GT-style car would be coming soon..."
What do we think? Is he talking about the Spyder? Could it be the same engine? It has the same seats and spoiler...
"Expect a sibling or two for the GT4 before too long. Andreas Preuninger, manager for Porsche’s motorsport and high performance car division, hinted heavily that another manual GT-style car would be coming soon..."
What do we think? Is he talking about the Spyder? Could it be the same engine? It has the same seats and spoiler...
Edited by 2010spy on Thursday 5th March 23:35
2010spy said:
Extract from article on GT4 published today...
"Expect a sibling or two for the GT4 before too long. Andreas Preuninger, manager for Porsche’s motorsport and high performance car division, hinted heavily that another manual GT-style car would be coming soon..."
What do we think? Is he talking about the Spyder? Could it be the same engine? It has the same seats and spoiler...
Definitely the Spyder!!! Won't be long!"Expect a sibling or two for the GT4 before too long. Andreas Preuninger, manager for Porsche’s motorsport and high performance car division, hinted heavily that another manual GT-style car would be coming soon..."
What do we think? Is he talking about the Spyder? Could it be the same engine? It has the same seats and spoiler...
http://driving.ca/reviews/road-test/first-drive-20...
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Hmm, the real question is now how much it will weight. If it's under 1300kg without any silly tricks (smaller tank, A/C delete, etc) then it could be quite interesting, more that and I don't see the point. I'd say the larger 3.8L engine plus extra cooling and the weight savings from a mechanical roof cancel each other out, so we're back at the ~1345kg of the base S/GTS. I think they could get to 1290kg if they really tried but not much lower than that, not with a 3.8L engine.
swimd said:
Hmm, the real question is now how much it will weight. If it's under 1300kg without any silly tricks (smaller tank, A/C delete, etc) then it could be quite interesting, more that and I don't see the point.
I'd say the larger 3.8L engine plus extra cooling and the weight savings from a mechanical roof cancel each other out, so we're back at the ~1345kg of the base S/GTS. I think they could get to 1290kg if they really tried but not much lower than that, not with a 3.8L engine.
I'm not convinced it is a real "question" - I can't see how they are going to get below 1300kg - or even close without any of the silly tricks you mention, with the 3.8 engine. Frankly, though I am a great believer in increasing performance by adding "lightness", I can't see the loss of half a (light) passenger or half a tank of petrol is going to make THAT much of a difference to the feel of the car. I'd say the larger 3.8L engine plus extra cooling and the weight savings from a mechanical roof cancel each other out, so we're back at the ~1345kg of the base S/GTS. I think they could get to 1290kg if they really tried but not much lower than that, not with a 3.8L engine.
I think it's bound to be a GT4(ish) Boxster - with all the plusses and minuses of that car, plus (minus?) a fiddly roof.
Top Gear
First drive: Porsche Cayman GT4
The Cayman is finally allowed to cut loose.
Out with it, is the Cayman GT4 fit to stand shoulder to shoulder with the 911 GT3?
Absolutely. It's a humdinger of a car, mighty on track, addictive on the road and capable of making your fizzy bits fizz like you've dropped an Alfa Seltzer into your pants. It's... proper.
What, better than a GT3?
Wrong question. Different, but a genuine Porsche GT product right down to the sole of its Michelins. By which I mean it's got a definite track focus - this is not a benignly upgraded Cayman with soothing road manners. The ride is decidedly firm, road noise a bit more intrusive, compromises have been made. But this is reassuring, it shows Porsche has approached the Cayman with the right mindset.
Oh, and let's clear something else up right now - the reason we haven't had this car before is not because of internal wranglings about overlap with the 911, it's because the GT division hasn't had the manpower and resources to be able to do it.
So will there ultimately be a GT4 RS, then?
Very unlikely, I'm afraid. But there's plenty here to keep you occupied for the time being. The 3.8-litre flat six is borrowed from the Carrera S, but turned through 180 degrees so the motor sits amidships with the gearbox trailing behind. There are a few tweaks, but power and torque remain the same at 380bhp and 310lb ft. Despite the extra capacity over the 3.4-litre Caymans, this engine is only about 7kg heavier, and yes, your only choice is a six-speed manual gearbox. No PDK on the options list here.
What about the suspension?
Largely borrowed from the 911 GT3, which means you can adjust the front and rear set-ups if you can be bothered to jack it up and get a spanner out. Which apparently, a lot of GT car owners do. Porsche believes 80 per cent of its GT cars are used on tracks and that people like to have a tinker around with them. It's lowered 30mm compared to a standard Cayman, the front track is 13mm wider, the brakes are carried over from the GT3, and are upgradable to PCCB ceramics for a smidge under £5,000.
Other options include the one-piece bucket seats from the 918 Spyder. I found them too upright in the 918, but the padding of the £1,907 carbon chairs has been adjusted and now they're just right. The driving position is spot on, the ergonomics of the cabin as close to faultless as I can imagine. Even the pedals are exactly where you want them. Exactly. It's a car that makes you want to drive it properly.
And it looks stunning. It may well be the first Cayman to generate downforce, but the way it sits on the road, the angle of attack of the rear wing, the slammed ride height means it absolutely looks the part.
Isn't there a Club Sport pack, too?
Yep, £2,670 for a rear cage, six point harness and fire extinguisher. If you want to take it racing, Porsche can also add a front cage, too. The message here is that just because this is Porsche's entry level sports car doesn't mean it's gone soft. In fact I reckon it's less forgiving than a GT3. I remember driving that and thinking I could happily live with it every day - the PDK gearbox meant you weren't sweating shifts in traffic and the damping was remarkably supple. The GT4 isn't hard work exactly, but it will bash you about a bit on a bumpy road. If you're not intending to go near a track the GTS might be a better bet.
Do you mean that?
Nope, probably not, just threw it in there to make sure you realise the GT4 is a step on. The grip it generates is outrageous, and I'm not sure the GT3 steers with as much purity - there's real resistance through the steering, making you aware of the forces you're overcoming. I'm not sure it's as tingly with feedback as the old Cayman R's hydraulic set-up, but it's more direct and quicker of rack.
But it inspires confidence?
Completely. You never have any doubt that the GT4 will steer exactly where you want it to at precisely the instant that you want it to. As a driver it doesn't give you many excuses. And the brakes are stellar. The car I drove had PCCB and bar the occasional low speed squeak they were fabulous to use, just so powerful and easy to modulate. A real highlight, in fact.
Any weak points?
None that really deserve mentioning, but I do think you can tell the engine isn't a pure-bred Porsche Motorsport unit. It doesn't rev with quite the same frenzy and snarl and snap, but any deficiency in that area is masked by the noise - it sounds gutturally wonderful, much louder and angrier than in a 911 Carrera S. And with less weight to work against it has great torque, and, above 5,500rpm where the Vanos system gives it both barrels, real 911-threatening turn of pace.
The gearbox is a honey, too. Same basic transmission as a Cayman GTS, but the lever has been cut down by 20mm, so the shifts feel very punchy, you just jab the lever around the gate, and if you have the Sport button pressed, it does the rev matching for you. In fact that is the only thing the Sport button does. One drawback to the gearbox though - those Cayman GTS ratios are too long for the GT4.
Porsche explains it away by saying that they don't want people to have to change up during overtaking opportunities, but more sprint-oriented gearing would suit the car better. Don't bother firming up the standard PASM dampers either - the Nurburgring lap time was achieved with them in normal.
And what was the 'Ring time?
It's 7 minutes 40 seconds. Only 8 seconds slower than a GT3. I reckon that car's PDK gearbox is probably worth several seconds a lap, and that in truth the GT4 is probably a match for its bigger brother. With more centrally located weight, the way it changes direction is astonishing. Front grip is boundless on the road, the whole car feeling locked to the surface, the suspension rigidly controlled.
It's no lighter than a GTS, though, is it?
No, it's the same weight, 1340kg wet. And the reason for that is that many of the new components - and there are over 500 of them - are beefier than those they replace. Look at the size of those brakes - those ceramic discs are a whopping 410mm across, the wheels are 20-inchers, the rear tyres 295-width. Bet the centre of gravity has dropped as a result.
And compared to the GT3?
It's swings and roundabouts. The GT3 remains the purer, more special car, its bespoke engine revving to 9,000rpm, as opposed to 7,800rpm here. Also part of what makes the GT3 so enthralling is that you have to manage that rear-engined layout, and the naturally better balanced Cayman doesn't provide that challenge.
But the attention to detail that's gone into every facet of this car makes it a riveting driving experience at any speed. You can feel the love that has gone into making the GT4 the car we always suspected it could be. It's a step on from a standard Cayman, and, at £64,451 (OK, £73k with a good bit of spec on it), looks rather exceptional value for money for a car that, as far as driving experience goes, can hold its head high alongside some very serious
If it is a 375 hp 3.8 will this be achieved by not having the air scoops of the gt4 thus the engine and ecu remain the same but the engine restricted via airflow which would be the same power as gt4 with out said scoops!
So scoops could always be an after fit for Spyder if just clip on affair!thus giving it the same power but weighing less than gt4!
So scoops could always be an after fit for Spyder if just clip on affair!thus giving it the same power but weighing less than gt4!
,B
Quote
"From a P-9 interview with David Burkhalter of Porsche North America about the GT4:
1. It is not a limited production car. So they don't know apriori how many they will build.
2. He does not know the current allocation numbers or cannot share them yet.
3. Future versions or second year depend on customer reception and a business case analysis.
This may be US specific, but I suspect will also apply to the UK market.
Apparently another point he made was that the GT4 engine is not a detuned 991S engine. The 15hp loss is due to air flow limitations (intake and exhaust) with the mid-engine configuration rather than a DME detune. The issue is intake air routing which is much shorter in the 991 and exhaust routing which crosses over in the 991 but does not in the 981. "Unquote
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
I don't know if you have read the blurb but they saying that the gt4 engine/ ecu are same as 991s but is restricted due to the exhaust and airflow be different to 991s and extra power is gained by the forced air of scoops hence my thinking is no scoops equals -10 hp for Spyder albeit high up in the Rev range!Quote
"From a P-9 interview with David Burkhalter of Porsche North America about the GT4:
1. It is not a limited production car. So they don't know apriori how many they will build.
2. He does not know the current allocation numbers or cannot share them yet.
3. Future versions or second year depend on customer reception and a business case analysis.
This may be US specific, but I suspect will also apply to the UK market.
Apparently another point he made was that the GT4 engine is not a detuned 991S engine. The 15hp loss is due to air flow limitations (intake and exhaust) with the mid-engine configuration rather than a DME detune. The issue is intake air routing which is much shorter in the 991 and exhaust routing which crosses over in the 991 but does not in the 981. "Unquote
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Edited by itsybitsy on Friday 13th March 17:26
Edited by itsybitsy on Friday 13th March 18:54
J12KJR said:
I'm no automotive engineer but is it possible that as Porsche will have one engine for all markets in the GT4 the restrictions on air flow in and out are to meet current/new legislations which those putting the Carrera S engine into a Cayman don't have to worry about.
Not sure but GT4 emissions are worse than 911 Carrera S.238g/km vs 224g/km (202g/km - PDK)
The difference here will be gearing 6spd vs 7spd
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