Cayman GTS on Top Gear
Discussion
straightsixmik said:
What I couldn't get my head around with the Corvette review was that hammond was changing gear manually, and then in other shots the wheel he was holding had paddles.
I noticed the paddles on a manual car! I could only think that they saved costs by not developing 2 steering wheels for manual and auto so stuck the same one on manual which for a £65k car is disappointing!Re. GTS.. 1.21 time with only 335 bhp in a road car is a very respectable time!
Of course it is a relevant comparison - 2 seater sports cars of similar price ! How else would you decide on a comparison ? But it was actually impressive how close the Cayman was in both drag race and lap time. When you take into account residuals, interior etc the Corvette really doesnt figure for most people I imagine.
sootyvrs said:
straightsixmik said:
What I couldn't get my head around with the Corvette review was that hammond was changing gear manually, and then in other shots the wheel he was holding had paddles.
I noticed the paddles on a manual car! I could only think that they saved costs by not developing 2 steering wheels for manual and auto so stuck the same one on manual which for a £65k car is disappointing!Re. GTS.. 1.21 time with only 335 bhp in a road car is a very respectable time!
Would have been better to have either both with a stick or brought a GTS with PDK. As for rubber my GTS came with P0's as standard not cup tires, maybe PGB shafted me
EricE said:
I suspect the Corvette and GTS were running Michelin Pilot Super Sports, the GT4 comes with Sport Cup 2 standard.
Put those tyres on the GTS and it'd be as fast as the Corvette, that doesn't even account for the larger tyres, higher power output, different aero and modified suspension on the GT4.
But if that is the case put those tyres on a Corvette and what happens? If they really are worth a couple of seconds a lap round the TG circuit it would put the Corvette in some very rarified company.Put those tyres on the GTS and it'd be as fast as the Corvette, that doesn't even account for the larger tyres, higher power output, different aero and modified suspension on the GT4.
bcr5784 said:
But if that is the case put those tyres on a Corvette and what happens? If they really are worth a couple of seconds a lap round the TG circuit it would put the Corvette in some very rarified company.
We'll find out when the Z06 does the lap. There's little doubt in my mind that it'll post 991 GT3 times for a price cheaper than the Cayman GT4. But quick lap times aren't really the point of the GT4, are they ... On the topic of tyres, in my opinion most of the gains in lap times between new and old models as well as "budget" and "expensive" trim are from tyre technology these days. Companies and reviewers are using tyres to change the times at their own discresion because nobody seems to question which tyres were used. It's the same with carbon ceramic brakes. The sportauto 911 comparison had the regular C2S on Pirellis with steel brakes and the GTS on Super Sports with carbon ceramics... coincidence? I think not.
Put every car on the list on the same rubber and do it again, the picture would be quite different and without a doubt far less effective for the marketing department. The fact that Porsche only honors warranty for older cars when they run older tyre designs really says it all.
Edited by EricE on Monday 23 February 10:27
So other than similar costs they pit two cars against each other with monumental HP/Torque figures differences??? Why not test the GTS against another Euro car?
However, that said didn't they test and M3 against an i8 last week two completely different cars and what £40K difference?
TG never does a level playing field test to be fair.
However, that said didn't they test and M3 against an i8 last week two completely different cars and what £40K difference?
TG never does a level playing field test to be fair.
Freakuk said:
So other than similar costs they pit two cars against each other with monumental HP/Torque figures differences??? Why not test the GTS against another Euro car?
However, that said didn't they test and M3 against an i8 last week two completely different cars and what £40K difference?
TG never does a level playing field test to be fair.
Thought that was the point, it was a case of heres £65k to spend, this is what you could get and heres an alternative left field choice thats awesome?However, that said didn't they test and M3 against an i8 last week two completely different cars and what £40K difference?
TG never does a level playing field test to be fair.
bcr5784 said:
While I don't have much (normally not any) time for Top Gear, if there is any relevance in their tests, it begs the question of whether the Corvette is faster than a GT4 as well. And if it was how many potential GT4 owners would cancel their orders? Very few, I suspect, if only because most of their other halves would baulk at co-habiting with a lap dancer....
Someone will always have a faster car. Not buying a car because it's not the fastest is pointless willy measuring. I'll be very interested to see how many GT4's end up on the track and how many become garage queens in that respect. It's built as a track car. Timing, to a degree is irrelevant because it's NOT a race car. Which is the only time timing actually matters.People put far, far to much relevance on how fast a car is and have forgotten that outright speed is not the only, or even the most important consideration when it comes to how much fun and how satisfying a car is to drive. Which is why the market is awash with insanely quick, stupidly capable and ultimately unsatisfying road cars.
The GT4 at least has purpose, and I love that they've not concentrated on the figures. I genuinely hope that puts the willy measurers off, so the people who are lucky enough to be able to afford one, buy it and track the s
t out of it.juansolo said:
Someone will always have a faster car. Not buying a car because it's not the fastest is pointless willy measuring. I'll be very interested to see how many GT4's end up on the track and how many become garage queens in that respect. It's built as a track car. Timing, to a degree is irrelevant because it's NOT a race car. Which is the only time timing actually matters.
People put far, far to much relevance on how fast a car is and have forgotten that outright speed is not the only, or even the most important consideration when it comes to how much fun and how satisfying a car is to drive. Which is why the market is awash with insanely quick, stupidly capable and ultimately unsatisfying road cars.
The GT4 at least has purpose, and I love that they've not concentrated on the figures. I genuinely hope that puts the willy measurers off, so the people who are lucky enough to be able to afford one, buy it and track the st out of it.
Agree with much of that, certainly for road cars, though the fact that the Cayman has (until now) always been kept below the 911 in power is precisely because Porsche fear willy measuring - and now by quoting Ring times for the GT4 ARE actually trying to appeal to willy measurers. I certainly don't think for a second that the GT4 will put them off doing that.People put far, far to much relevance on how fast a car is and have forgotten that outright speed is not the only, or even the most important consideration when it comes to how much fun and how satisfying a car is to drive. Which is why the market is awash with insanely quick, stupidly capable and ultimately unsatisfying road cars.
The GT4 at least has purpose, and I love that they've not concentrated on the figures. I genuinely hope that puts the willy measurers off, so the people who are lucky enough to be able to afford one, buy it and track the s
t out of it.I think to many GT4 fanciers lap times will be a consideration (even if they can't match them themselves). In any case performance is AN issue on the track. A standard 125bhp Caterham is great fun on the road, but gets rather lost down Hanger Straight. My Cayman S feels much much slower or the track than on the road, so straight line performance is a factor. But it's the balance between power/grip/delicacy that is important (for fun). Whether the GT4 has got that right remains to be seen.
But the point remains that the Americans are really starting to get their act together when it comes to handling, and can now be taken seriously (especially when VFM is in the equation).
This is true. They'll still not make it RHD which ultimately shags it here.
I still stand by that if you take that 125hp Caterham and stick stty narrow tyres on it then try to drive it properly, you'll have every bit as much fun as the guy in the R500 with sequential box on slicks. You'll be going nowhere near as fast. But your power to grip ratio will keep you plenty busy/entertained. Straights just give you a bit of time to relax 
I still stand by that if you take that 125hp Caterham and stick s
tty narrow tyres on it then try to drive it properly, you'll have every bit as much fun as the guy in the R500 with sequential box on slicks. You'll be going nowhere near as fast. But your power to grip ratio will keep you plenty busy/entertained. Straights just give you a bit of time to relax sootyvrs said:
I noticed the paddles on a manual car! I could only think that they saved costs by not developing 2 steering wheels for manual and auto so stuck the same one on manual which for a £65k car is disappointing!
On cars with manual transmissions, the paddles are used to enable/disable the auto-rev matching. Though yes, not having two steering wheels is an old-school GM move if there ever was one.lemmingjames said:
Thought that was the point, it was a case of heres £65k to spend, this is what you could get and heres an alternative left field choice thats awesome?
Agreed, thought it was a great comparison if not terribly well executed. The more competition and variety available the better. Goofnik said:
On cars with manual transmissions, the paddles are used to enable/disable the auto-rev matching. Though yes, not having two steering wheels is an old-school GM move if there ever was one.
That is horrendous. I would hate having the paddles there with a manual box.Juansolo were you on the Mr2roc per chance?
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff