Cayman R - owners/buyers/mods
Discussion
Sarnie said:
I've been watching this market for a long time, there are S's creeping up to £37k now......R's all are over £40k now with some up to £47k at OPC's......
Examples of £37k S;
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
It would appear I stole mine I better a send the balance through quick! Examples of £37k S;
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/p...
will hopefully get a look at it laterNo PR36 isn't right, it's not just the dampers and springs that maketh an R.
I think our new friend here with his loaded up S made up to look like an R is a shining example of it. That car new would have cost far in excess of what a new R would have done by speccing all the extras and still doesn't have the shocks, springs, GT3 doors plus a handful of other bits. Now we see that car probably lost a fair chunk of that additional spend over the last couple of years whereas an R has probably started off cheaper and lost less.
If people thought the R was just a S with some stickers then I'm sure there would be a lot more of exactly that floating around.
I think our new friend here with his loaded up S made up to look like an R is a shining example of it. That car new would have cost far in excess of what a new R would have done by speccing all the extras and still doesn't have the shocks, springs, GT3 doors plus a handful of other bits. Now we see that car probably lost a fair chunk of that additional spend over the last couple of years whereas an R has probably started off cheaper and lost less.
If people thought the R was just a S with some stickers then I'm sure there would be a lot more of exactly that floating around.
it does not matter what the dampers are.
the fact is Porsche got the set up right, remember the new stiffer ARB's also.
They are so right it's what makes the car.
I could not care if they were £50, PSS9 would prob not be as good unless you got the damping right and knew what spring rates were used.
I have been in cars with KW's and they are too stiff for the road.
yes on track a nice set of 3 way JRZ would be great to adjust the car how you would like, but the R's a road car and it's amazing
As for the buy in price, it matters not as the resale price is strong so net use is LESS then buying/selling an S
the fact is Porsche got the set up right, remember the new stiffer ARB's also.
They are so right it's what makes the car.
I could not care if they were £50, PSS9 would prob not be as good unless you got the damping right and knew what spring rates were used.
I have been in cars with KW's and they are too stiff for the road.
yes on track a nice set of 3 way JRZ would be great to adjust the car how you would like, but the R's a road car and it's amazing
As for the buy in price, it matters not as the resale price is strong so net use is LESS then buying/selling an S
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Wednesday 24th June 08:49
An R is WELL worth a 10k premium over an S in my opinion. Don't get me wrong the are still great cars but I wouldn't have bought an S if the R wasn't around.
It's about the package as a whole, the image, the rarity. OK an S with some changes will be just as 'fast' as an R, but it would still not look as good (without the body kit/styling) (and are you really going to buy aluminium panels if we are talking about making an S the same as an R), it would still always be an S and therefore inferior. Plus it will still depreciate considerably, where as the R wont.
All in my opinion of course.
It's about the package as a whole, the image, the rarity. OK an S with some changes will be just as 'fast' as an R, but it would still not look as good (without the body kit/styling) (and are you really going to buy aluminium panels if we are talking about making an S the same as an R), it would still always be an S and therefore inferior. Plus it will still depreciate considerably, where as the R wont.
All in my opinion of course.
Edited by V800MJH on Wednesday 24th June 08:41
I don't blame you for talking it up chaps but I just don't believe the hype, and when mrd starts mentioning the arb which are negligible in difference to the s it smacks of hot air. To me the r is a very nice special edition model but nothing more and talk of worldwide registers and such like is a bit silly, but each to their own. No offence intended.
I think the R will be remembered as is the first of the 'lightweight' breed of Cayman. Bit like the rare Porsche's it will hold up as one of the greats.
The low production numbers will help it retain value (less made than the MK1 GT3 worldwide), and yes I agree its just a Cayman with lightweight bits and tricks but these are standard bits. Not an S (still a great car) with bits added.
I have owned both an S and have an R, if you have driven both you'll see why you always see 'R' drivers smiling. Please don't get me wrong, the S is a great car.
just my 2p's worth
(plus if you read the 'diary of a new R owner, a lot of 996 GT3 owners have now jumped into R's and are saying how great they are, me included)
The low production numbers will help it retain value (less made than the MK1 GT3 worldwide), and yes I agree its just a Cayman with lightweight bits and tricks but these are standard bits. Not an S (still a great car) with bits added.
I have owned both an S and have an R, if you have driven both you'll see why you always see 'R' drivers smiling. Please don't get me wrong, the S is a great car.
just my 2p's worth
(plus if you read the 'diary of a new R owner, a lot of 996 GT3 owners have now jumped into R's and are saying how great they are, me included)
PR36 said:
I don't blame you for talking it up chaps but I just don't believe the hype, and when mrd starts mentioning the arb which are negligible in difference to the s it smacks of hot air. To me the r is a very nice special edition model but nothing more and talk of worldwide registers and such like is a bit silly, but each to their own. No offence intended.
every one who has owned one finds it amazing inc the new thread which is 3 past 996 GT3 owners, but there are more past GT3 owners have these now.The car works, I flip cars every 6 months normally, had 55 cars + but I have ran the R for 3 years an 22k miles, it is the best car I have owned and I have had some cracking motors.
Not sure why you don't like the ARB comment , I even have the R ARB on the Spyder, it's a thicker bar and helps the balance of the car over the washed out S which understeers out the factory.
A quick test drive does not show how great the car is, living with the car and pushing on it's a great car, one of Porsche best. worldwide rare also if that floats your boat.
I don't care what any brand of car is or how rare it is, I am about the drive and the R has that in spades hence winning Autocars drivers car of the year at launch.
PorscheGT4 said:
PR36 said:
I don't blame you for talking it up chaps but I just don't believe the hype, and when mrd starts mentioning the arb which are negligible in difference to the s it smacks of hot air. To me the r is a very nice special edition model but nothing more and talk of worldwide registers and such like is a bit silly, but each to their own. No offence intended.
every one who has owned one finds it amazing inc the new thread which is 3 past 996 GT3 owners, but there are more past GT3 owners have these now.The car works, I flip cars every 6 months normally, had 55 cars + but I have ran the R for 3 years an 22k miles, it is the best car I have owned and I have had some cracking motors.
Not sure why you don't like the ARB comment , I even have the R ARB on the Spyder, it's a thicker bar and helps the balance of the car over the washed out S which understeers out the factory.
A quick test drive does not show how great the car is, living with the car and pushing on it's a great car, one of Porsche best. worldwide rare also if that floats your boat.
I don't care what any brand of car is or how rare it is, I am about the drive and the R has that in spades hence winning Autocars drivers car of the year at launch.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
KW are known to be hard, my mate has just put some on, even the fitter said KW come hard so I will set them up softthe cars still too hard we have put the bump and rebound to full soft but the cars still to hard !
the whole point in 3 ways is to adjust the setting to balance the car, the cars just to hard with every thing soft, no one would even want to use 1 click on them.
As I stated the Porsche shocks could be worth £50, the point is the car works bloody well out the box.
PR36 said:
I have no doubt at all what you say is correct and it is a great car to drive but talking up the CR ARB and Dampers is a bit silly old chap. I had the option to fit both to my S and the conclusion from those that had tried them both vs aftermarket was that the difference between the CR ARB and stock S was so incredibly small that you wouldn't notice any difference, and the only reason at all to fit the CR dampers was to keep everything 'OEM' which carries no weight with me. I was advised that for a bit more money I could have pss9 which is a far better quality damper with adjustment and my experience is it is just that. And regards to being a 'lightweight special' sorry but the old RS air cooled lightweights were and are truly special, saving 50kg is a bit of a token gesture with the faux 'door pulls' exemplifying the silliness. A I say I like the car a lot but don't try to make it into something it isn't!
All I have said it true though, I am not making the car into any thing, it is what it is, why do people talk about the door pulls but not the GT3 alloy doors ? 50KG is a lot imo, most cars rave about a 15kg saving.the ARB makes a difference, that is also a fact, I have one on my Spyder over the standard one. Again I am not bigging it up, the rear ARB is stiffer and works with the car better than a S one or a boxster one !
also has others have said buying a S fitting spyder wheels, buckets seats, areo kit and a set of PSS shocks, LSD is way more than buying an R, so that makes the S owner look a bit stupid imo as resale you get NOTHING back, it's now a modded S dropping in price and unsellable unless you put it back to stock.
while the R owner can go to any OPC and get a warranty put on it and still sell the car for the same as they bought it. !
what did the 993 RS save in weight over a standard 993 ? was it more , I have no idea !
I think what MrD is saying is that if you want an out the box well judged and set-up car, with warranty, future resale predictability then get an R. If what you actually want is an R+ then you might consider getting an S, if you are going to end up replacing all the R parts anyway.
As for the suspension, I kind of agree that it's almost irrelevant what brand it is. Without doubt you can get some more expensive dampers with loads of adjustment, lighter, rebuildable etc and have the car set up just as you want, but if the R set up just works for you then all that is a moot point. If the R or Porsche suspension had a reputation of catastrophically failing in eg 2 years then the longevity and build quality would be more relevant but generally they keep going for 10000s of miles albeit with compounding degradation, but that is no different to most other dampers. It's a bit like the argument for/against the factory M030/X73 vs AN other aftermarket. For the typical Porsche customer who wants a bit more then OE sports suspension is a good solution. For those who want a bit more again they inevitably go aftermarket.
As for the suspension, I kind of agree that it's almost irrelevant what brand it is. Without doubt you can get some more expensive dampers with loads of adjustment, lighter, rebuildable etc and have the car set up just as you want, but if the R set up just works for you then all that is a moot point. If the R or Porsche suspension had a reputation of catastrophically failing in eg 2 years then the longevity and build quality would be more relevant but generally they keep going for 10000s of miles albeit with compounding degradation, but that is no different to most other dampers. It's a bit like the argument for/against the factory M030/X73 vs AN other aftermarket. For the typical Porsche customer who wants a bit more then OE sports suspension is a good solution. For those who want a bit more again they inevitably go aftermarket.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
every new hot hatch seems to rave even if it's 5kg'son the 918 you have to pay £45k to save less than 50kg's lol
ok a car any RS GT3, they go on and on about weight saving but most are 10kg saved even the much sort after 996RS the saving in weight was not much at all !
Agree with the moose. I went in a modded cayman s around the ring recently. cup 2 tyres, kw clubsport, h&r bars, gt3 brakes (with standard master cylinder with no problems according to the owner). Did an 8min 20 lap with a fair amount of traffic.
the car just felt bolted to the floor. driving up to the ring on the surrounding roads were bliss. felt more comfortable than my spyder which is fairly jiggly, but of course not remotely uncomfortable.
I had KW V1 with eibach bars, poly bushes, vibratech mounts etc on my last JCW r53 Mini and it was super comfortable when plodding along, but welded to the floor when pressing on. control and comfort. must be their special valving.
went to KW in Kent when I was having my previous rebuilt, he showed me how the valving worked and how they open up when hitting a sharp bump to stop the car being thrown off line.
the car just felt bolted to the floor. driving up to the ring on the surrounding roads were bliss. felt more comfortable than my spyder which is fairly jiggly, but of course not remotely uncomfortable.
I had KW V1 with eibach bars, poly bushes, vibratech mounts etc on my last JCW r53 Mini and it was super comfortable when plodding along, but welded to the floor when pressing on. control and comfort. must be their special valving.
went to KW in Kent when I was having my previous rebuilt, he showed me how the valving worked and how they open up when hitting a sharp bump to stop the car being thrown off line.
Sarnie said:
This is a bit boring boys.
S owners bigging up their car, saying the difference isn't much.
R owners bigging up their car, saying the difference is a lot.
Does that sum it up??
No not really, i'm just expressing an opinion based on how I see the car and without wearing anyones rose tinted spectacles and I really couldn't care less if my car was better or worse than another. At the end of the day if I wanted an R and thought it was worth it I would buy one! S owners bigging up their car, saying the difference isn't much.
R owners bigging up their car, saying the difference is a lot.
Does that sum it up??
PR36 said:
No not really, i'm just expressing an opinion based on how I see the car and without wearing anyones rose tinted spectacles and I really couldn't care less if my car was better or worse than another. At the end of the day if I wanted an R and thought it was worth it I would buy one!
Indeed, I'm just saying that it's a pointless debate. Everyone loves their cars and will have reasons why they didn't buy other cars. An R owner is unlikely to be convinced that they should have bought an S and vice versa.......and no rose tinted glasses here! 
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