Is buying a Boxster/Cayman with 60k+ on the clock a risk?
Discussion
I guess the title says it all, really? I'm looking to buy either a Boxster or Cayman, but my budget won't stretch beyond £20k. What can I realistically pick up for that sort of cash? From what I've seen, you're looking at 60,000+ miles on the clock. Does this mean I'm staring endless bills in the face? How much would I need to put aside for general repairs/servicing? Apologies if this is an age old question that's been answered a thousand times, but I thought I'd ask you knowledgeable bunch all the same!
depends what you expect , imo shocks are gone at 60k miles although they may feel ok, same with bush's etc
they feel ok till you drive a brand new car.
then clutch, disk, pads, bore scoring.
I my self don't buy 60k miles cars and normally sell up before 30k miles.
rather drive a hot hatch for 20k with 15k miles than a 60k miler porker , but that's just me.
they feel ok till you drive a brand new car.
then clutch, disk, pads, bore scoring.
I my self don't buy 60k miles cars and normally sell up before 30k miles.
rather drive a hot hatch for 20k with 15k miles than a 60k miler porker , but that's just me.
I picked up a gen 1 Cayman a few year back second hand with ~50k miles on the clock, I save on average it cost me £2-3k to keep it running sweet (via an Indy) for all the reasons above, not all were NEEDED but wanted to keep the car in a-1 condition, then picked up bore scoring around 80k miles not once but twice (bank 1 the first time, bank 2 second time about 80k miles, that's a £10k rebuild each time! And a reference point I had a scope before buying and rest of car checked, it had a clean bill of health.
Amazing cars, some people get luckily others don't. Gave up on my gen 1 and treated myself to a new GTS instead, personally if I had the my time again, I would have waited until I could afford new, (or at least a gen 2).
It's very tempting though as for the 2 years I had it before bore scoring I loved every minute
Amazing cars, some people get luckily others don't. Gave up on my gen 1 and treated myself to a new GTS instead, personally if I had the my time again, I would have waited until I could afford new, (or at least a gen 2).
It's very tempting though as for the 2 years I had it before bore scoring I loved every minute
Mileage isn't an issue - maintenance is.
Although I've bought my Porsches new, I have bought a few high performance cars with over 100k on the clock - look for receipts for wear and tear replacement parts in addition to meticulous servicing.
2.7 engine seems to be less problematic and might suit a first timer well.
Parts aren't too expensive and if you're at all handy there are plenty of jobs you can do yourself.
If no-one ever bought older higher mileage cars, then all the cars now smashing auction records would have been scrapped long ago.
Although I've bought my Porsches new, I have bought a few high performance cars with over 100k on the clock - look for receipts for wear and tear replacement parts in addition to meticulous servicing.
2.7 engine seems to be less problematic and might suit a first timer well.
Parts aren't too expensive and if you're at all handy there are plenty of jobs you can do yourself.
If no-one ever bought older higher mileage cars, then all the cars now smashing auction records would have been scrapped long ago.
I'd expect the lower arms to need replacing, but that's pretty common across all cars. There's only so long a rubber bush will last in the UK! Springs can snap at the front (although the failure mode is a drop in ride hight so it won't leave you stranded).
Worth keeping an eye out for engine issues, but in all honesty, I think it's more down to how well the car has been cared for rather than mileage. Because the Cayman is such an accessible car price wise, a lot of people buy them and drive them day in/day out as they had in their Golf/3 Series without any care. The reality is, they have their quirks, so keeping an eye on the levels and warming the oil through correctly is key.
Ultimately, as with any second hand car out of warranty, there's a degree of risk, and it was a £50k car when new, so expect some things to cost quite a bit to replace. On the other hand, pads and discs aren't crazy money, and a service isn't silly money.
If I were you, I wouldn't worry about mileage too much and just focus on the condition and history of the car.
Worth keeping an eye out for engine issues, but in all honesty, I think it's more down to how well the car has been cared for rather than mileage. Because the Cayman is such an accessible car price wise, a lot of people buy them and drive them day in/day out as they had in their Golf/3 Series without any care. The reality is, they have their quirks, so keeping an eye on the levels and warming the oil through correctly is key.
Ultimately, as with any second hand car out of warranty, there's a degree of risk, and it was a £50k car when new, so expect some things to cost quite a bit to replace. On the other hand, pads and discs aren't crazy money, and a service isn't silly money.
If I were you, I wouldn't worry about mileage too much and just focus on the condition and history of the car.
Thank you for the advice, all. Should I spend my money elsewhere then? I'm not sure I should risk my hard earned cash when I could potentially buy something more reliable? I mean, 60k isn't a huge amount of miles. Perhaps I'd be better off getting an Audi TT or BMW Z4, but I really fancied a Porsche!
gtwilliams said:
Thank you for the advice, all. Should I spend my money elsewhere then? I'm not sure I should risk my hard earned cash when I could potentially buy something more reliable? I mean, 60k isn't a huge amount of miles. Perhaps I'd be better off getting an Audi TT or BMW Z4, but I really fancied a Porsche!
no!, we are saying buy one, but look for a loved one, just like u would any sporty car, a cayman will feel so good in the corners, it just really hard to explain, once u have driven one on the twisty stuff, then u will know what iam saying, also once u put a decent exhaust system on it, sounds to die fordave
corvettedave said:
gtwilliams said:
Thank you for the advice, all. Should I spend my money elsewhere then? I'm not sure I should risk my hard earned cash when I could potentially buy something more reliable? I mean, 60k isn't a huge amount of miles. Perhaps I'd be better off getting an Audi TT or BMW Z4, but I really fancied a Porsche!
no!, we are saying buy one, but look for a loved one, just like u would any sporty car, a cayman will feel so good in the corners, it just really hard to explain, once u have driven one on the twisty stuff, then u will know what iam saying, also once u put a decent exhaust system on it, sounds to die fordave
gtwilliams said:
I guess the title says it all, really? I'm looking to buy either a Boxster or Cayman, but my budget won't stretch beyond £20k. What can I realistically pick up for that sort of cash? From what I've seen, you're looking at 60,000+ miles on the clock. Does this mean I'm staring endless bills in the face? How much would I need to put aside for general repairs/servicing? Apologies if this is an age old question that's been answered a thousand times, but I thought I'd ask you knowledgeable bunch all the same!
Yes its a risk plain and simple. You will find that many people on this forum consider a 'high mileage' sub 20k gen 1 cayman pretty much a 'snotter' with an unreliable engine thats best avoided unless you can't afford anything better. Myself i don't want to drive round in a 40k Cayman R that might get keyed by my local scrotes, reversed into at sainsbury and something that would have me in cold sweats sweeping between the guard rails at the nordschleife because of its value. So i choose to drive an 07 Cayman S with 72k miles on it, I've had it 2 years and ignoring the mods I've done it costs about 2k ish to maintain each year. To my mind there isn't anything else you can buy for the money that gives the same performance and quality, caterham, lotus, e46 m3 etc etc no thanks, i love my Cayman to pieces and if it blows itself to bits tomorrow i will have it rebuilt and continue to enjoy it. Bottom line is like any car if you can't afford to repair it you can't afford it. PR36 said:
gtwilliams said:
I guess the title says it all, really? I'm looking to buy either a Boxster or Cayman, but my budget won't stretch beyond £20k. What can I realistically pick up for that sort of cash? From what I've seen, you're looking at 60,000+ miles on the clock. Does this mean I'm staring endless bills in the face? How much would I need to put aside for general repairs/servicing? Apologies if this is an age old question that's been answered a thousand times, but I thought I'd ask you knowledgeable bunch all the same!
Yes its a risk plain and simple. You will find that many people on this forum consider a 'high mileage' sub 20k gen 1 cayman pretty much a 'snotter' with an unreliable engine thats best avoided unless you can't afford anything better. Myself i don't want to drive round in a 40k Cayman R that might get keyed by my local scrotes, reversed into at sainsbury and something that would have me in cold sweats sweeping between the guard rails at the nordschleife because of its value. So i choose to drive an 07 Cayman S with 72k miles on it, I've had it 2 years and ignoring the mods I've done it costs about 2k ish to maintain each year. To my mind there isn't anything else you can buy for the money that gives the same performance and quality, caterham, lotus, e46 m3 etc etc no thanks, i love my Cayman to pieces and if it blows itself to bits tomorrow i will have it rebuilt and continue to enjoy it. Bottom line is like any car if you can't afford to repair it you can't afford it. racinghep said:
PR36 said:
gtwilliams said:
I guess the title says it all, really? I'm looking to buy either a Boxster or Cayman, but my budget won't stretch beyond £20k. What can I realistically pick up for that sort of cash? From what I've seen, you're looking at 60,000+ miles on the clock. Does this mean I'm staring endless bills in the face? How much would I need to put aside for general repairs/servicing? Apologies if this is an age old question that's been answered a thousand times, but I thought I'd ask you knowledgeable bunch all the same!
Yes its a risk plain and simple. You will find that many people on this forum consider a 'high mileage' sub 20k gen 1 cayman pretty much a 'snotter' with an unreliable engine thats best avoided unless you can't afford anything better. Myself i don't want to drive round in a 40k Cayman R that might get keyed by my local scrotes, reversed into at sainsbury and something that would have me in cold sweats sweeping between the guard rails at the nordschleife because of its value. So i choose to drive an 07 Cayman S with 72k miles on it, I've had it 2 years and ignoring the mods I've done it costs about 2k ish to maintain each year. To my mind there isn't anything else you can buy for the money that gives the same performance and quality, caterham, lotus, e46 m3 etc etc no thanks, i love my Cayman to pieces and if it blows itself to bits tomorrow i will have it rebuilt and continue to enjoy it. Bottom line is like any car if you can't afford to repair it you can't afford it. gtwilliams said:
Thank you for the advice, all. Should I spend my money elsewhere then? I'm not sure I should risk my hard earned cash when I could potentially buy something more reliable? I mean, 60k isn't a huge amount of miles. Perhaps I'd be better off getting an Audi TT or BMW Z4, but I really fancied a Porsche!
Absolutely not - go for a test drive in a Cayman and you'll find a TT inert and a Z4 crude.There are sub £20k cars with a lot fewer miles than 60k if that's what concerns you, but there's no guarantee they'd be a better buy than a well maintained higher mileage car.
Not really a problem if the car has been maintained and serviced as it should. My rear springs went at 45k, my front springs have just been replaced at 59k, and I've had a few other little issues, water pump and exhaust gaskets, but saying that, any car could have the same problems at similar or lesser mileage , whether it be a Porsche, BMW, Mercedes etc. I use mine everyday in all weathers.
I say buy one and enjoy it, just have a few pounds left over in case something goes wrong. You won't regret it.
I say buy one and enjoy it, just have a few pounds left over in case something goes wrong. You won't regret it.
Absolutely get one. Any car will cost you money.....but I think Porsche owners just seem better at tracking the spend better than most!
I have a semblance of a warranty from the specialist I bought from, so the springs on mine were covered, as are the suspension arms. There are a few things I need to fix myself (passenger window whistles and needs adjusting and I want to get a new sill cover as it's scratched to buggery like pretty much every used Cayman out there!), but on the whole (touch wood) it's been ok.
You can totally scare yourself about any car, especially when you add it up. My Mk5 Golf GTI probably cost about £1k a year to run. Within 6 months the water pump bearing was on its way out (covered by VW warranty which also then resulted in the cam belt being changed for free which is usually a £500 bill), it needed 4 new tyres at 1 year (£500), minor service was £200 (once you've added on the things they find) and major was £300. It had a new set of front discs and pads last year for £250 fitted and used a litre of oil between services and then another set of tyres about 6 months before I sold it.
Spend too long looking in to any car and you'll talk yourself out of it. E46 M3s are a great bargain. Until you realise that the rear springs break after 6 months (genuinely....they last about 6 months before breaking!), the rear subframe mounts have a habit of cracking, the boot floor cracks, the Vanos needs a fairly expensive service once it gets to the limits of adjustment, and oil starvation to the crank isn't unheard of. One owner I know of was quoted £10k to fix the engine issues in his car....
So do it! Find a nice tidy 987 and enjoy it, drive it, and fix as needed!
I have a semblance of a warranty from the specialist I bought from, so the springs on mine were covered, as are the suspension arms. There are a few things I need to fix myself (passenger window whistles and needs adjusting and I want to get a new sill cover as it's scratched to buggery like pretty much every used Cayman out there!), but on the whole (touch wood) it's been ok.
You can totally scare yourself about any car, especially when you add it up. My Mk5 Golf GTI probably cost about £1k a year to run. Within 6 months the water pump bearing was on its way out (covered by VW warranty which also then resulted in the cam belt being changed for free which is usually a £500 bill), it needed 4 new tyres at 1 year (£500), minor service was £200 (once you've added on the things they find) and major was £300. It had a new set of front discs and pads last year for £250 fitted and used a litre of oil between services and then another set of tyres about 6 months before I sold it.
Spend too long looking in to any car and you'll talk yourself out of it. E46 M3s are a great bargain. Until you realise that the rear springs break after 6 months (genuinely....they last about 6 months before breaking!), the rear subframe mounts have a habit of cracking, the boot floor cracks, the Vanos needs a fairly expensive service once it gets to the limits of adjustment, and oil starvation to the crank isn't unheard of. One owner I know of was quoted £10k to fix the engine issues in his car....
So do it! Find a nice tidy 987 and enjoy it, drive it, and fix as needed!
Go for it 60K is nothing. Admittedly moderns don't seem so resilient but barely warmed up at that point.
Worse case would you rather spend couple of grand putting things right or kiss good bye to £20K+ in depreciation. Last 5 years I bought a 180K miles 944 and its fine and GTi at 80K, still going strong at 120K and used daily.
Some are too scared of mileage, I would be more scared by the lack of it.
Worse case would you rather spend couple of grand putting things right or kiss good bye to £20K+ in depreciation. Last 5 years I bought a 180K miles 944 and its fine and GTi at 80K, still going strong at 120K and used daily.
Some are too scared of mileage, I would be more scared by the lack of it.
You are buying a used car, one with some age and miles on it. Had you bought it new back then, and maintained it fanatically, it would still be needing an occasional update at this point in its life. Even if it were a Toyota, it would. My third owner Boxster at this same mileage point cost me less per mile and less per year to maintain than a similarly aged/miles Honda I had bought new. But if it had a major problem ... then it would cost more.
You will see that we know lots about them because we care about them because they are such wonderful cars. When I was looking for my first Boxster I drove a BMW roadster all of 2 blocks only to quickly return it. I knew in that short of time it didn't fit my sense of what a sporty car should feel like. I drove every roadster around looking for the right fit. Bought the first Boxster I drove. Then bought another one after the crash of the first one.
Regular maintenance (not just an oil change but addressing little things as they come up) will make a car a better buy for you. I know of ones with 300k on them. So do see if you can find one with a big stack of maintenance records that shows the owner cared for the car enough to keep up with the little things. One indication is changing the oil more frequently that the maximum intervals.
Not a bad idea to take a car to a Porsche mechanic and get his opinion if your seller will allow that. (In the states we call it a PPI (Pre Purchase Inspection) and we expect to pay about 2-3 labor hours for it. Enables you to envision what it will need in the next year or so.
Tire brand and condition. Top condition.
You will see that we know lots about them because we care about them because they are such wonderful cars. When I was looking for my first Boxster I drove a BMW roadster all of 2 blocks only to quickly return it. I knew in that short of time it didn't fit my sense of what a sporty car should feel like. I drove every roadster around looking for the right fit. Bought the first Boxster I drove. Then bought another one after the crash of the first one.
Regular maintenance (not just an oil change but addressing little things as they come up) will make a car a better buy for you. I know of ones with 300k on them. So do see if you can find one with a big stack of maintenance records that shows the owner cared for the car enough to keep up with the little things. One indication is changing the oil more frequently that the maximum intervals.
Not a bad idea to take a car to a Porsche mechanic and get his opinion if your seller will allow that. (In the states we call it a PPI (Pre Purchase Inspection) and we expect to pay about 2-3 labor hours for it. Enables you to envision what it will need in the next year or so.
Tire brand and condition. Top condition.
I took the plunge last year and bought a Boxster 987 S with 70K on the clock. It is so much better to drive than the low miles BMW Z4 I had before that I could not go back. I bought a 2005 year car with my eyes open, expecting to have to renew some bits as they wear out and with a few minor niggles (some stone chips, driver's mirror not working, new tyres etc) to fix as I went along. I have really enjoyed owning it and driving it.
I would say that you need to be prepared to spend some money on maintaining these cars. As I was buying an older car with a reasonably high mileage I had budgeted around £600-800 per year in maintenance plus a new clutch at some point. I have recently had to spend £500 on replacing roof rods and thermostat and unfortunately one of the variocam units needs to be replaced which is (about to) cost me significantly more as that is an engine out job. On a positive note the main dealers have a lower labour rate for older cars (Hatfield Porsche are £85 per hour).
The IMS issue is a worry and like most people I spent ages worrying about this and then decided that life was too short. If I was looking to spend closer to 20K I would certainly consider an inspection as someone else has suggested and I would also look harder at buying an aftermarket warranty which will give you some peace of mind re IMS issues (and variocam.......).
Good luck!
I would say that you need to be prepared to spend some money on maintaining these cars. As I was buying an older car with a reasonably high mileage I had budgeted around £600-800 per year in maintenance plus a new clutch at some point. I have recently had to spend £500 on replacing roof rods and thermostat and unfortunately one of the variocam units needs to be replaced which is (about to) cost me significantly more as that is an engine out job. On a positive note the main dealers have a lower labour rate for older cars (Hatfield Porsche are £85 per hour).
The IMS issue is a worry and like most people I spent ages worrying about this and then decided that life was too short. If I was looking to spend closer to 20K I would certainly consider an inspection as someone else has suggested and I would also look harder at buying an aftermarket warranty which will give you some peace of mind re IMS issues (and variocam.......).
Good luck!
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