GT4 video of 7:42 Nordschleife - Supertest sport auto
Discussion
isaldiri said:
That can't be possible. 15s on just the upshifts is way too much. 5 seems more likely to me.
Porsche figures ,I think it is very feasible on such a long track,If the difference between shifting in a manual and pdk is between lets say 0.2 and 0.4 seconds that would mean anywhere between 37 and 75 gearchanges would result in the difference.swimd said:
Excellent lap and very exciting to watch. Gearing does seem to be a bit on the long side but I'd hope the 3.8 makes up for it off the track.
Is it the camera perspective or does this driver sit extremely close to the wheel? I've noticed this in all of the videos on the channel, it seems like the wheel is just 15 cm from his chest.
Race drivers do generally sit closer than you would normally do on the road, but I have to agree, even my granny (if I had one) wouldn't sit that close. Is it the camera perspective or does this driver sit extremely close to the wheel? I've noticed this in all of the videos on the channel, it seems like the wheel is just 15 cm from his chest.
franki68 said:
Porsche figures ,I think it is very feasible on such a long track,If the difference between shifting in a manual and pdk is between lets say 0.2 and 0.4 seconds that would mean anywhere between 37 and 75 gearchanges would result in the difference.
If I am bored, let me count timo kluck's gearchanges on the factory 4.0 RS lap later... 
15 seconds still sounds a lot though. That would mean outside of gearbox and tyres, the 991gt3 would actually be no quicker than the 997.2 gt3 despite all the various other electronic bits widely held up as big performance improvements.
isaldiri said:
If I am bored, let me count timo kluck's gearchanges on the factory 4.0 RS lap later...
15 seconds still sounds a lot though. That would mean outside of gearbox and tyres, the 991gt3 would actually be no quicker than the 997.2 gt3 despite all the various other electronic bits widely held up as big performance improvements.
My son often looks at how much time is lost in gearchanges and it can be 1 or 2 seconds a lap (on a typical 1 to 2 minute lap) compared with a really brutal manual racing change - and obviously PDK is faster still. So there might possibly be 15 seconds compared with a sympathetic manual gearchange and PDK on a near 8 minute lap - but like you I think it seems a lot. The GT4 driver certainly isn't being as brutal as someone really going for it might.15 seconds still sounds a lot though. That would mean outside of gearbox and tyres, the 991gt3 would actually be no quicker than the 997.2 gt3 despite all the various other electronic bits widely held up as big performance improvements.
So... How a car, not built to be optimal around a pointless ribbon of tarmac in Germany, goes around said pointless ribbon of tarmac really does define what people want these days. Thank you for contributing to the problem.
Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
Also, let's get back to the Nurburgring. Those who find 15 seconds, so a little over 1 second a mile, reasons to go on about PDK or the super long gearing (that no-one noticed on the first two generations of the car) seem to be missing the point that it's a circuit that probably 1% of track drivers can actually set consistent fast times on. Mainly because it's so f
king dangerous, it requires you to either be massively talented with big balls, or just a psycho with no fear of death.
Alternatively we can all just get our knobs out and slap them on the table and see who's got the biggest cock once and for all, because that's ALL that this is. It's utterly fking irrelevant unless you're planning on racing it, and if you were, one of the first things to go would be the gearbox anyhow, along with all the options people fret over, and the resale value. Basically this is a car that's designed for lucky, wealthy peeps to driver over to Spa, do a few laps with some chums and drive back again. How fast it goes round is irrelevant isn't it as long as it's a blast? Because there's always going to be some bd in a Radical or slicked up Caterham that's gonna be way quicker anyhow. So what's the actual point in arguing over a little over 1 sec a lap when they'll be 10sec up a lap around Spa, never mind the Ring.
I really do wonder what people want from cars these days and what pleasure they derive from increasingly lardy, grippy, powerful machines that we, as consumers, keep demanding. When will it end? We're already at 200mph & 600+ hp on estate cars for fks sake.
Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
Also, let's get back to the Nurburgring. Those who find 15 seconds, so a little over 1 second a mile, reasons to go on about PDK or the super long gearing (that no-one noticed on the first two generations of the car) seem to be missing the point that it's a circuit that probably 1% of track drivers can actually set consistent fast times on. Mainly because it's so f
king dangerous, it requires you to either be massively talented with big balls, or just a psycho with no fear of death.Alternatively we can all just get our knobs out and slap them on the table and see who's got the biggest cock once and for all, because that's ALL that this is. It's utterly f
king irrelevant unless you're planning on racing it, and if you were, one of the first things to go would be the gearbox anyhow, along with all the options people fret over, and the resale value. Basically this is a car that's designed for lucky, wealthy peeps to driver over to Spa, do a few laps with some chums and drive back again. How fast it goes round is irrelevant isn't it as long as it's a blast? Because there's always going to be some bd in a Radical or slicked up Caterham that's gonna be way quicker anyhow. So what's the actual point in arguing over a little over 1 sec a lap when they'll be 10sec up a lap around Spa, never mind the Ring.I really do wonder what people want from cars these days and what pleasure they derive from increasingly lardy, grippy, powerful machines that we, as consumers, keep demanding. When will it end? We're already at 200mph & 600+ hp on estate cars for f
ks sake.Mermaid said:
PorscheGT4 said:
franki68 said:
Porsche claimed the pdk on the 991gt3 improved the ring time by 15 seconds. Motwyw.
that would make it not that great a car in manual then ! M3 CSL 7:50 & the M3 is 8:22 = 32 seconds.
However there are differences - less weight, cup tyres on the CSL, faster rack, better brakes and about 5% more power.
juansolo said:
So... How a car, not built to be optimal around a pointless ribbon of tarmac in Germany, goes around said pointless ribbon of tarmac really does define what people want these days. Thank you for contributing to the problem.
Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
Also, let's get back to the Nurburgring. Those who find 15 seconds, so a little over 1 second a mile, reasons to go on about PDK or the super long gearing (that no-one noticed on the first two generations of the car) seem to be missing the point that it's a circuit that probably 1% of track drivers can actually set consistent fast times on. Mainly because it's so fking dangerous, it requires you to either be massively talented with big balls, or just a psycho with no fear of death.
Alternatively we can all just get our knobs out and slap them on the table and see who's got the biggest cock once and for all, because that's ALL that this is. It's utterly fking irrelevant unless you're planning on racing it, and if you were, one of the first things to go would be the gearbox anyhow, along with all the options people fret over, and the resale value. Basically this is a car that's designed for lucky, wealthy peeps to driver over to Spa, do a few laps with some chums and drive back again. How fast it goes round is irrelevant isn't it as long as it's a blast? Because there's always going to be some bd in a Radical or slicked up Caterham that's gonna be way quicker anyhow. So what's the actual point in arguing over a little over 1 sec a lap when they'll be 10sec up a lap around Spa, never mind the Ring.
I really do wonder what people want from cars these days and what pleasure they derive from increasingly lardy, grippy, powerful machines that we, as consumers, keep demanding. When will it end? We're already at 200mph & 600+ hp on estate cars for fks sake.
Totally agree. These cars should be about fun, 'ring time is interesting but hardly the point. If you want the fastest thing since sliced bread on track, then get that new Ultima Evolution. Costs the same as a GT3 but will absolutely destroy anything on track with 1020hp and 950kg Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
Also, let's get back to the Nurburgring. Those who find 15 seconds, so a little over 1 second a mile, reasons to go on about PDK or the super long gearing (that no-one noticed on the first two generations of the car) seem to be missing the point that it's a circuit that probably 1% of track drivers can actually set consistent fast times on. Mainly because it's so f
king dangerous, it requires you to either be massively talented with big balls, or just a psycho with no fear of death.Alternatively we can all just get our knobs out and slap them on the table and see who's got the biggest cock once and for all, because that's ALL that this is. It's utterly f
king irrelevant unless you're planning on racing it, and if you were, one of the first things to go would be the gearbox anyhow, along with all the options people fret over, and the resale value. Basically this is a car that's designed for lucky, wealthy peeps to driver over to Spa, do a few laps with some chums and drive back again. How fast it goes round is irrelevant isn't it as long as it's a blast? Because there's always going to be some bd in a Radical or slicked up Caterham that's gonna be way quicker anyhow. So what's the actual point in arguing over a little over 1 sec a lap when they'll be 10sec up a lap around Spa, never mind the Ring.I really do wonder what people want from cars these days and what pleasure they derive from increasingly lardy, grippy, powerful machines that we, as consumers, keep demanding. When will it end? We're already at 200mph & 600+ hp on estate cars for f
ks sake.
franki68 said:
Mermaid said:
That's a good comparison - same horses for different courses kind of. I suppose £15k difference between the two, and two child seats. & the 911 name.
juansolo said:
So... How a car, not built to be optimal around a pointless ribbon of tarmac in Germany, goes around said pointless ribbon of tarmac really does define what people want these days. Thank you for contributing to the problem.
Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
Also, let's get back to the Nurburgring. Those who find 15 seconds, so a little over 1 second a mile, reasons to go on about PDK or the super long gearing (that no-one noticed on the first two generations of the car) seem to be missing the point that it's a circuit that probably 1% of track drivers can actually set consistent fast times on. Mainly because it's so fking dangerous, it requires you to either be massively talented with big balls, or just a psycho with no fear of death.
Alternatively we can all just get our knobs out and slap them on the table and see who's got the biggest cock once and for all, because that's ALL that this is. It's utterly fking irrelevant unless you're planning on racing it, and if you were, one of the first things to go would be the gearbox anyhow, along with all the options people fret over, and the resale value. Basically this is a car that's designed for lucky, wealthy peeps to driver over to Spa, do a few laps with some chums and drive back again. How fast it goes round is irrelevant isn't it as long as it's a blast? Because there's always going to be some bd in a Radical or slicked up Caterham that's gonna be way quicker anyhow. So what's the actual point in arguing over a little over 1 sec a lap when they'll be 10sec up a lap around Spa, never mind the Ring.
I really do wonder what people want from cars these days and what pleasure they derive from increasingly lardy, grippy, powerful machines that we, as consumers, keep demanding. When will it end? We're already at 200mph & 600+ hp on estate cars for fks sake.
Accepting entirely that the ring time is totally irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and no reason to buy or not buy PDK, manual or a GT4 at all - it doesn't stop it being a topic some of us are interested in talking about - even if the discussion is purely academic and will have no impact on our personal buying decisions. Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
Also, let's get back to the Nurburgring. Those who find 15 seconds, so a little over 1 second a mile, reasons to go on about PDK or the super long gearing (that no-one noticed on the first two generations of the car) seem to be missing the point that it's a circuit that probably 1% of track drivers can actually set consistent fast times on. Mainly because it's so f
king dangerous, it requires you to either be massively talented with big balls, or just a psycho with no fear of death.Alternatively we can all just get our knobs out and slap them on the table and see who's got the biggest cock once and for all, because that's ALL that this is. It's utterly f
king irrelevant unless you're planning on racing it, and if you were, one of the first things to go would be the gearbox anyhow, along with all the options people fret over, and the resale value. Basically this is a car that's designed for lucky, wealthy peeps to driver over to Spa, do a few laps with some chums and drive back again. How fast it goes round is irrelevant isn't it as long as it's a blast? Because there's always going to be some bd in a Radical or slicked up Caterham that's gonna be way quicker anyhow. So what's the actual point in arguing over a little over 1 sec a lap when they'll be 10sec up a lap around Spa, never mind the Ring.I really do wonder what people want from cars these days and what pleasure they derive from increasingly lardy, grippy, powerful machines that we, as consumers, keep demanding. When will it end? We're already at 200mph & 600+ hp on estate cars for f
ks sake.juansolo said:
So... How a car, not built to be optimal around a pointless ribbon of tarmac in Germany, goes around said pointless ribbon of tarmac really does define what people want these days. Thank you for contributing to the problem.
Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
.
Bad excuse to go on an anti ring time rant surely. So far, the main issue noted seemed to be that the gearing looks overly long and then it got into a discussion into how much pdk would change the ringtime rather than lamenting lack of pdk makes it slow (7:42 hardly is slow either....) Most people don't seem to be clamouring for pdk to make the car quicker, merely shorter ratios to make the car a better one to drive....you can't possibly not be surprised by the amount of the lap done in 2nd gear and think the car might be better with shorter ratios, not just faster but better full stop.Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
.
isaldiri said:
juansolo said:
So... How a car, not built to be optimal around a pointless ribbon of tarmac in Germany, goes around said pointless ribbon of tarmac really does define what people want these days. Thank you for contributing to the problem.
Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
.
Bad excuse to go on an anti ring time rant surely. So far, the main issue noted seemed to be that the gearing looks overly long and then it got into a discussion into how much pdk would change the ringtime rather than lamenting lack of pdk makes it slow (7:42 hardly is slow either....) Most people don't seem to be clamouring for pdk to make the car quicker, merely shorter ratios to make the car a better one to drive....you can't possibly not be surprised by the amount of the lap done in 2nd gear and think the car might be better with shorter ratios, not just faster but better full stop.Porsche can't win. PDK gives 15 secs WE WANT PDK. But PDK is less involving WE WANT MANUAL. I know the solution is to offer both. But still, I find it amusing.
.
There's just no pleasing people. Which I expect is exactly what Porsche's motorsport division would feel reading this thread.
juansolo said:
I find people complaining about the ratios comical when they're the same ratios we've always had, just with a more powerful and slightly higher revving engine. Be happy it's got a manual.
There's just no pleasing people. Which I expect is exactly what Porsche's motorsport division would feel reading this thread.
Simple question - do you think the gt4 could be a better car with shorter ratios? I am glad the car is manual only, however i don't see any contradiction hoping it could be the best it could be. There's just no pleasing people. Which I expect is exactly what Porsche's motorsport division would feel reading this thread.
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