Any converts from Manual to pdk here?
Discussion
dreamcar said:
Slippydiff said:
You're new around here, yet you seem hellbent on making a reputation for yourself, just as others have in the past. Try winding your neck in a tad, it'll make the forum a more pleasant place to frequent for all 
Your assumptions are incorrect. What annoys me is when certain posters seem to imply that because certain individuals do not themelves want PDK - and there is nothing wrong in that - similarly there is nothing wrong with those that prefer it. Either choice does not make a car, or its driver inferior.Live and let live, and accept that not everyone likes the same things, and everyone will get on ust fine. I will not be trodden on or beaten into submission, that's for sure.
There are some long term members here with thousands of posts, many of them inane, and in some cases verging on insane.
It's not like the Wild West, with the new kid in town wanting to see who's fastest on the draw and the grizzled old gunslinger putting him in his place; an opinion can be valuable or valueless regardless of the poster's history.
PDK vs manuel, I don't think there's a particular winner when it comes to driver enjoyment there are positives and negatives for both. It's how it fits with the whole package. I think the "involvment" side is a bit of a red herring - if PDK makes a particular car more fun for you, spec it, if not, don't. For me it's purely whether the positives of the particular option outweigh the negatives in fun terms. For the record I can heel and toe and do enjoy it, and I get on track 5 or so times a year in my cars. My preferences for the cars I currently have (or have inbound)....
993 - love it in manual form, suits it's old school character, no negatives, esp when the only other option is a Tip slushbox
7.1 GT3 - also love in manual form, once warmed the gearbox feels fab, in my head at least it follows the whole pre-991 simpler/lighter is better GT3 philosophy, downside is the gearing is too long for the road, but forgivable as it was designed for use on track as well. That said, I think I could live with a PDK-S in a 7.x GT3 if they had made it for the racey feel it would give me on track.
Boxster/Cayman GTS - prefer PDK w/ paddles, suits its more modern, less hardcore character. Makes the car feel more powerful than it is with the shorter more road orientated ratios. That said, the manual would still be in the running for me if it was my sole weekend car and the ratios weren't daftly long. Either Porsche developed them for 'ring times (pointless) or for a few extra % fuel efficiency (wrong priorities), either way I think they dropped the ball. I spent a whole morning driving both a manual and PDK at PEC Silverstone, and the manual was just a bit frustrating, PDK was far more enjoyable overall even if technically I was doing less.
993 - love it in manual form, suits it's old school character, no negatives, esp when the only other option is a Tip slushbox
7.1 GT3 - also love in manual form, once warmed the gearbox feels fab, in my head at least it follows the whole pre-991 simpler/lighter is better GT3 philosophy, downside is the gearing is too long for the road, but forgivable as it was designed for use on track as well. That said, I think I could live with a PDK-S in a 7.x GT3 if they had made it for the racey feel it would give me on track.
Boxster/Cayman GTS - prefer PDK w/ paddles, suits its more modern, less hardcore character. Makes the car feel more powerful than it is with the shorter more road orientated ratios. That said, the manual would still be in the running for me if it was my sole weekend car and the ratios weren't daftly long. Either Porsche developed them for 'ring times (pointless) or for a few extra % fuel efficiency (wrong priorities), either way I think they dropped the ball. I spent a whole morning driving both a manual and PDK at PEC Silverstone, and the manual was just a bit frustrating, PDK was far more enjoyable overall even if technically I was doing less.
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 19th May 09:31
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 19th May 09:32
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 19th May 09:33
Mario149 said:
PDK vs manuel, I don't think there's a particular winner when it comes to driver enjoyment there are positives and negatives for both. It's how it fits with the whole package. I think the "involvment" side is a bit of a red herring - if PDK makes a particular car more fun for you, spec it, if not, don't. For me it's purely whether the positives of the particular option outweigh the negatives in fun terms. For the record I can heel and toe and do enjoy it, and I get on track 5 or so times a year in my cars. My preferences for the cars I currently have (or have inbound)....
993 - love it in manual form, suits it's old school character, no negatives, esp when the only other option is a Tip slushbox
7.1 GT3 - also love in manual form, once warmed the gearbox feels fab, in my head at least it follows the whole pre-991 simpler/lighter is better GT3 philosophy, downside is the gearing is too long for the road, but forgivable as it was designed for use on track as well. That said, I think I could live with a PDK-S in a 7.x GT3 if they had made it for the racey feel it would give me on track.
Boxster/Cayman GTS - prefer PDK w/ paddles, suits its more modern, less hardcore character. Makes the car feel more powerful than it is with the shorter more road orientated ratios. That said, the manual would still be in the running for me if it was my sole weekend car and the ratios weren't daftly long. Either Porsche developed them for 'ring times (pointless) or for a few extra % fuel efficiency (wrong priorities), either way I think they dropped the ball. I spent a whole morning driving both a manual and PDK at PEC Silverstone, and the manual was just a bit frustrating, PDK was far more enjoyable overall even if technically I was doing less.
+1 Nail on head.993 - love it in manual form, suits it's old school character, no negatives, esp when the only other option is a Tip slushbox
7.1 GT3 - also love in manual form, once warmed the gearbox feels fab, in my head at least it follows the whole pre-991 simpler/lighter is better GT3 philosophy, downside is the gearing is too long for the road, but forgivable as it was designed for use on track as well. That said, I think I could live with a PDK-S in a 7.x GT3 if they had made it for the racey feel it would give me on track.
Boxster/Cayman GTS - prefer PDK w/ paddles, suits its more modern, less hardcore character. Makes the car feel more powerful than it is with the shorter more road orientated ratios. That said, the manual would still be in the running for me if it was my sole weekend car and the ratios weren't daftly long. Either Porsche developed them for 'ring times (pointless) or for a few extra % fuel efficiency (wrong priorities), either way I think they dropped the ball. I spent a whole morning driving both a manual and PDK at PEC Silverstone, and the manual was just a bit frustrating, PDK was far more enjoyable overall even if technically I was doing less.
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 19th May 09:31
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 19th May 09:32
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 19th May 09:33
I find this debate quite funny, because as another contributor has already pointed out, if you want real involvement buy a more focused car. My previous car was an Ariel Atom, where the involvement meant no power steering, traction control or ABS. In the wet it sometimes gave you too much involvement.
In many ways it was similar to my first car, an Austin Healey Sprite, yes I'm quite old. That also had no driving "assistance", plus other involving items such as a choke, a hood that took 5 minutes to take down and longer to put up and a heater that you had to open the bonnet to turn off. How much involvement you want is a personal thing; if you want lots, buy an old car and have the fun of no synchromesh on first or reverse.
It has taken me a year to get used to my 981, for many months it just felt slow and heavy and certainly not as involving as the Atom, but remembering returning to Lincolnshire from the factory in Somerset one winter when it was -3 degrees reminds me, sometimes it's nice not to be too involved.
In many ways it was similar to my first car, an Austin Healey Sprite, yes I'm quite old. That also had no driving "assistance", plus other involving items such as a choke, a hood that took 5 minutes to take down and longer to put up and a heater that you had to open the bonnet to turn off. How much involvement you want is a personal thing; if you want lots, buy an old car and have the fun of no synchromesh on first or reverse.
It has taken me a year to get used to my 981, for many months it just felt slow and heavy and certainly not as involving as the Atom, but remembering returning to Lincolnshire from the factory in Somerset one winter when it was -3 degrees reminds me, sometimes it's nice not to be too involved.
OldChap said:
I find this debate quite funny, because as another contributor has already pointed out, if you want real involvement buy a more focused car. My previous car was an Ariel Atom, where the involvement meant no power steering, traction control or ABS. In the wet it sometimes gave you too much involvement.
In many ways it was similar to my first car, an Austin Healey Sprite, yes I'm quite old. That also had no driving "assistance", plus other involving items such as a choke, a hood that took 5 minutes to take down and longer to put up and a heater that you had to open the bonnet to turn off. How much involvement you want is a personal thing; if you want lots, buy an old car and have the fun of no synchromesh on first or reverse.
It has taken me a year to get used to my 981, for many months it just felt slow and heavy and certainly not as involving as the Atom, but remembering returning to Lincolnshire from the factory in Somerset one winter when it was -3 degrees reminds me, sometimes it's nice not to be too involved.
It's not binary! A biker could say the same thing to you - all cars are luxo barges compared to bikes, even an Atom.In many ways it was similar to my first car, an Austin Healey Sprite, yes I'm quite old. That also had no driving "assistance", plus other involving items such as a choke, a hood that took 5 minutes to take down and longer to put up and a heater that you had to open the bonnet to turn off. How much involvement you want is a personal thing; if you want lots, buy an old car and have the fun of no synchromesh on first or reverse.
It has taken me a year to get used to my 981, for many months it just felt slow and heavy and certainly not as involving as the Atom, but remembering returning to Lincolnshire from the factory in Somerset one winter when it was -3 degrees reminds me, sometimes it's nice not to be too involved.
Wow, you make a light hearted comment about old cars being more involving than most modern ones and someone snaps back bikes are more involving. I must admit I hadn't noticed we were comparing bikes with cars. Is it just me that missed that?
It's nearly fifty years since I bought my first motorbike, and that too was more involving than modern bikes with their electric starters, ABS brakes, indicators etc; but then again I didn't think we were discussing bikes, simply the amount of involvement drivers want from their cars.
Some people on here appear to be quite belligerent.
It's nearly fifty years since I bought my first motorbike, and that too was more involving than modern bikes with their electric starters, ABS brakes, indicators etc; but then again I didn't think we were discussing bikes, simply the amount of involvement drivers want from their cars.
Some people on here appear to be quite belligerent.
OldChap said:
Wow, you make a light hearted comment about old cars being more involving than most modern ones and someone snaps back bikes are more involving. I must admit I hadn't noticed we were comparing bikes with cars. Is it just me that missed that?
It's nearly fifty years since I bought my first motorbike, and that too was more involving than modern bikes with their electric starters, ABS brakes, indicators etc; but then again I didn't think we were discussing bikes, simply the amount of involvement drivers want from their cars.
Some people on here appear to be quite belligerent.
Motorbikes? Pah!It's nearly fifty years since I bought my first motorbike, and that too was more involving than modern bikes with their electric starters, ABS brakes, indicators etc; but then again I didn't think we were discussing bikes, simply the amount of involvement drivers want from their cars.
Some people on here appear to be quite belligerent.
Walking, that's where the most 'involvement' lies. Barefoot, obviously - these modern shoes reduce the 'feel' on the road...
Edited by sidicks on Tuesday 19th May 16:28
Why do I like PDK ?
More economical.
More performance.
More mind space to concentrate on the dynamics of the car when driving as fast as I can ... or is safe.
I have got past the stage where I need to prove that I can still heel and toe --- or is that toe and heel ? I guess it depends upon which car I am driving
And, better gear ratios than the current six speeder --- though I'm buying a GT4
More economical.
More performance.
More mind space to concentrate on the dynamics of the car when driving as fast as I can ... or is safe.
I have got past the stage where I need to prove that I can still heel and toe --- or is that toe and heel ? I guess it depends upon which car I am driving
And, better gear ratios than the current six speeder --- though I'm buying a GT4
MJ911 said:
FWIW, I asked an ex F1 racer who owns a fleet of supercars what he thought of PDK. His reply was he would go for PDK over manual everytime, as being a racer it enables him to go faster. Food for thought
Not really food for thought is it? Its just one mans opinion 
On the other hand, there is Lewis Hamilton, two time F1 world champion and he has a Zonda with a manual gearbox and an AC Cobra with a manual gearbox..... he has also just bought a La Ferrari (with the flappy paddles like wot Michael Shuuuumakka has)
Horses for courses, there is no right or wrong
Just thought his thoughts carried more weight being a well respected car jockey with a lot of experience of all manner of fast cars, but yes the flip side is LH's car choices as you pointed out
I see the Red cayman R that I initially intended to buy based on whether I liked PDK or not, that got sold within a few days, was merely 'flipped' by a dealer and has had an extra 7k added to the price...grrr.
I see the Red cayman R that I initially intended to buy based on whether I liked PDK or not, that got sold within a few days, was merely 'flipped' by a dealer and has had an extra 7k added to the price...grrr.
V8KSN said:
Not really food for thought is it? Its just one mans opinion
On the other hand, there is Lewis Hamilton, two time F1 world champion and he has a Zonda with a manual gearbox and an AC Cobra with a manual gearbox..... he has also just bought a La Ferrari (with the flappy paddles like wot Michael Shuuuumakka has)
Horses for courses, there is no right or wrong
I completely agree ...On the other hand, there is Lewis Hamilton, two time F1 world champion and he has a Zonda with a manual gearbox and an AC Cobra with a manual gearbox..... he has also just bought a La Ferrari (with the flappy paddles like wot Michael Shuuuumakka has)
Horses for courses, there is no right or wrong
I will thoroughly enjoy the GT4 for it's 21st century 964RS'ness !
Just to add my 2p.
Last week my 7.1 GT3 RS was in for a service and I had a brand new Boxster S PDK loaner for the day.
For the first 30mins I left it in auto mode to get out of the city and found the PDK faultless, so easy to switch off and relax in stop start / busy traffic. On the hour drive home I initially played about with the PDK in "manual" mode with both the paddles and gear stick and was amazed at how quick / seamless the upshifts were. I was also amazed at how rapid the car was, it didn't feel that much slower than my RS.
After about 30mins though I got fed up and put it back into auto mode for the rest of the way home. I don't know how the PDK on the Boxster S compares to the PDK-S? on the 991 GT3's but I ended up switching to auto as I didn't actually feel as though I was doing anything. It changed so quick and with so little feedback I thought what's the point! I ran a Nissan GTR for 2 years and enjoyed that gearbox much more. OK it was maybe less refined but the kick from the gearbox and the click of the paddles as you changed gears made you feel like you were at least doing something.
At the end of the day when handing the car back I still hadn't warmed to it and when I sat back in my own car and pulled away I just grinned like an idiot thinking how different it was I can't speak for any other 997 or 991 manual models but for any PDK fans I'd say if you can try a 997 GT3 RS manual box do so, it really is a joy to use
Last week my 7.1 GT3 RS was in for a service and I had a brand new Boxster S PDK loaner for the day.
For the first 30mins I left it in auto mode to get out of the city and found the PDK faultless, so easy to switch off and relax in stop start / busy traffic. On the hour drive home I initially played about with the PDK in "manual" mode with both the paddles and gear stick and was amazed at how quick / seamless the upshifts were. I was also amazed at how rapid the car was, it didn't feel that much slower than my RS.
After about 30mins though I got fed up and put it back into auto mode for the rest of the way home. I don't know how the PDK on the Boxster S compares to the PDK-S? on the 991 GT3's but I ended up switching to auto as I didn't actually feel as though I was doing anything. It changed so quick and with so little feedback I thought what's the point! I ran a Nissan GTR for 2 years and enjoyed that gearbox much more. OK it was maybe less refined but the kick from the gearbox and the click of the paddles as you changed gears made you feel like you were at least doing something.
At the end of the day when handing the car back I still hadn't warmed to it and when I sat back in my own car and pulled away I just grinned like an idiot thinking how different it was
I can't speak for any other 997 or 991 manual models but for any PDK fans I'd say if you can try a 997 GT3 RS manual box do so, it really is a joy to use Borrowed a 997GT3RS for 45 minutes last year. the box was an absolute b
h cold, but pure class when warmed up.
I'm just about to buy a 987 spyder with PDK, based on the fact that ;
I fancy a change
It felt quicker and will be cheaper to run
I thought it would be useful for the track
I'm intrigued by launch control (childish lol!)
The steering wheel looked miles better than the manual (tart!)
I can't justify a (circa) extra £4k for a 'purist' manual version.
I drove a few spyders and 981's with PDK and it was quickly apparent you really needed chrono if you're going that route..let's see how I get on . Missus never really drove my 997 but said she'd be much happier driving the spyder with PDK - that's gotta be worth some brownies points too !.
h cold, but pure class when warmed up.I'm just about to buy a 987 spyder with PDK, based on the fact that ;
I fancy a change
It felt quicker and will be cheaper to run
I thought it would be useful for the track
I'm intrigued by launch control (childish lol!)
The steering wheel looked miles better than the manual (tart!)
I can't justify a (circa) extra £4k for a 'purist' manual version.
I drove a few spyders and 981's with PDK and it was quickly apparent you really needed chrono if you're going that route..let's see how I get on . Missus never really drove my 997 but said she'd be much happier driving the spyder with PDK - that's gotta be worth some brownies points too !.
Edited by Nattyboy888 on Friday 22 May 11:26
Well, that was interesting, just back from a test drive of a Cayman GTS with PDK. I drove it on the same roads in the same direction as I drove my Evora to the dealership so that I could compare.
I have to say, that the PDK box is intoxicating, the speed of gear change is amazing and means that the car really flatters the driver, and there is no doubt that its quicker that the manual Evora.
The Evora still has the edge on cornering, mainly due to steering feel, the Cayman felt a bit dead and isolated, Plus turn in wasn't quite as good. Evora had more grip so I could get the power down earlier out of the corners but the faster gear change in the PDK Cayman meant that overall it was faster.
In sport mode the Cayman ride is less compliant than the Evora.
Its a tricky decision as I was comparing two different cars as well as two different transmissions. I really liked the pdk, it made me faster from a-b but definitely takes away the reward of a good gear change with heel and toe into a corner, but the intoxicating speed of the change makes its a very close run thing.
In all, I would be very happy with either.
And overall, I don't think one car is better than the other, they are both excellent. So when the Porsche man calls, I don't know whether to order or whether to stick with the Evora and wait for the new Evora 400 to be available used.
I have to say, that the PDK box is intoxicating, the speed of gear change is amazing and means that the car really flatters the driver, and there is no doubt that its quicker that the manual Evora.
The Evora still has the edge on cornering, mainly due to steering feel, the Cayman felt a bit dead and isolated, Plus turn in wasn't quite as good. Evora had more grip so I could get the power down earlier out of the corners but the faster gear change in the PDK Cayman meant that overall it was faster.
In sport mode the Cayman ride is less compliant than the Evora.
Its a tricky decision as I was comparing two different cars as well as two different transmissions. I really liked the pdk, it made me faster from a-b but definitely takes away the reward of a good gear change with heel and toe into a corner, but the intoxicating speed of the change makes its a very close run thing.
In all, I would be very happy with either.
And overall, I don't think one car is better than the other, they are both excellent. So when the Porsche man calls, I don't know whether to order or whether to stick with the Evora and wait for the new Evora 400 to be available used.
hondansx said:
Personally, i think people should share their car usage before stating their opinion. Sure, a manual makes perfect sense if it is a weekend car, doing 6,000 miles a year on Welsh b-roads. However, using a clutch everyday isn't so much fun doing 30,000 miles a year in start/stop traffic in London. Doesn't mean you hate manuals or aren't an enthusiast because you choose PDK for 90% of your journeys!
This is a fair comment. I drive a 70 mile round trip to work everyday, and use an E250 CDI 7 G Tronic (lovely thing for the job, but bloody boring otherwise!), and have a 997 Carrera S Manual for "driving". Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff