981 Boxster vs 987 Cayman S
Discussion
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Maybe for you, but like I said before, I think a lot of people on here would struggle. It's not a criticism of them, just that yourself and other people who post vocally about it are probably in the minority and have more experience/more attention to detail in this area in the same way that someone who is really into detailing could critique increasing/decreasing paint quality where the rest of us would just think it's looks great. TB303 said:
Does anyone know how much the steering feel has improved through software since launch? I just can't see Porsche getting the steering wrong on the spyder or GT4 (perhaps GT4 owners can comment?). It's been 3 years or so since the 981 was launched so I would hope that things have improved a little with each model year.
Does anyone know if it's the sort of thing where the dealer can just upload the latest software version at service time? you would hope so as early cars were dire, here is a vid I took :-) you could move the wheel 2 inch's each way and the car did not move one bit lol.
my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it.
I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it.
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it.
I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it.
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 2nd June 10:45
PorscheGT4 said:
you would hope so as early cars were dire, here is a vid I took :-) you could move the wheel 2 inch's each way and the car did not move one bit lol.
my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it.
I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it.
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
I think the 981 which was like that must have had a fault. I have driven half a dozen 981s (all Caymans but I would expect the Boxster to be almost identical) and none of them have had any play at all. Although I am very critical of the (lack of) feel, I would not criticise the accuracy. The steering is a bit rubbery (wheel/tyre dependent) - but there isn't any slack. It is very easy to put the car where you want it - but the state of the road surface is largely hidden. My car is 12 months old and most of the cars I have driven have been similarly old with a variety of wheel sizes and tyre fitments.my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it.
I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it.
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 2nd June 10:45
I'm not sure how much newer cars have changed. It was said by Porsche that steering feel had been improved on the GT4, and although most reports I've seen mentioned the CLAIM, I don't recall any saying that they actually noticed any improvement.
The only solution is to such it and see how big a deal it is to you personally.
bcr5784 said:
I think the 981 which was like that must have had a fault. I have driven half a dozen 981s (all Caymans but I would expect the Boxster to be almost identical) and none of them have had any play at all. Although I am very critical of the (lack of) feel, I would not criticise the accuracy. The steering is a bit rubbery (wheel/tyre dependent) - but there isn't any slack. It is very easy to put the car where you want it - but the state of the road surface is largely hidden. My car is 12 months old and most of the cars I have driven have been similarly old with a variety of wheel sizes and tyre fitments.
I'm not sure how much newer cars have changed. It was said by Porsche that steering feel had been improved on the GT4, and although most reports I've seen mentioned the CLAIM, I don't recall any saying that they actually noticed any improvement.
The only solution is to such it and see how big a deal it is to you personally.
The Boxster loan car that I have (on 20s, which is insane)has a couple of cms play either side of dead ahead. I noticed it for the first time this morning. I cannot remember whether the 981 Cayman I tried had it too, but it is definitely there.I'm not sure how much newer cars have changed. It was said by Porsche that steering feel had been improved on the GT4, and although most reports I've seen mentioned the CLAIM, I don't recall any saying that they actually noticed any improvement.
The only solution is to such it and see how big a deal it is to you personally.
It is the norm in EPAS cars, from what I can tell, to have a small amount of play from straight ahead. No idea why.
I did the GTS vip day and while much better than the vid, it was still not good enough for this type of car for me.
the RS and GT4 have new software over the GT3, so one can hope it's better, as GTS vs GT3 is a big change.
I am ok with Audi feel, As you can still feel it and there is no play, It's the play I hate and dead spot in the straight ahead and the way it weights up mid bend, you loose feel in the wet.
My ford ST has EPAS and it's fine, no play, no dead sport and nice weight, while not like my 987.2 steering it's still better than even the Porsche GTS feel !
I would expect the motorsport dept to make sure these new GT cars feel ok.
the RS and GT4 have new software over the GT3, so one can hope it's better, as GTS vs GT3 is a big change.
I am ok with Audi feel, As you can still feel it and there is no play, It's the play I hate and dead spot in the straight ahead and the way it weights up mid bend, you loose feel in the wet.
My ford ST has EPAS and it's fine, no play, no dead sport and nice weight, while not like my 987.2 steering it's still better than even the Porsche GTS feel !
I would expect the motorsport dept to make sure these new GT cars feel ok.
ORD said:
The Boxster loan car that I have (on 20s, which is insane)has a couple of cms play either side of dead ahead. I noticed it for the first time this morning. I cannot remember whether the 981 Cayman I tried had it too, but it is definitely there.
It is the norm in EPAS cars, from what I can tell, to have a small amount of play from straight ahead. No idea why.
so the wheel does not move if you hit a bump, makes for a nice drive on UK roads ;-)It is the norm in EPAS cars, from what I can tell, to have a small amount of play from straight ahead. No idea why.
PorscheGT4 said:
ORD said:
The Boxster loan car that I have (on 20s, which is insane)has a couple of cms play either side of dead ahead. I noticed it for the first time this morning. I cannot remember whether the 981 Cayman I tried had it too, but it is definitely there.
It is the norm in EPAS cars, from what I can tell, to have a small amount of play from straight ahead. No idea why.
so the wheel does not move if you hit a bump, makes for a nice drive on UK roads ;-)It is the norm in EPAS cars, from what I can tell, to have a small amount of play from straight ahead. No idea why.
I can't see why EPAS cars should have any more play than HPAS ones. The connection between steering wheel itself and the front wheels is actually functionally no different - the wheel connects to the column, which drives the pinion which drives the rack, which turns the wheels. The rack is "assisted" either by a hydraulic pump acting directly on the rack or, in the case of electric steering acting on the rack or the steering column. Neither assistance system itself should introduce play in the system since it acts in parallel with the existing system, not in series.
PorscheGT4 said:
you would hope so as early cars were dire, here is a vid I took :-) you could move the wheel 2 inch's each way and the car did not move one bit lol.
my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it.
I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it.
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
That video is exactly how my old (2010) Audi S3 was, I must admit it wasn't nearly that bad in the GTS I drove at Silverstone but it still felt lifeless nonetheless. my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it.
I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it.
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 2nd June 10:45
PorscheGT4 said:
you would hope so as early cars were dire, here is a vid I took :-) you could move the wheel 2 inch's each way and the car did not move one bit lol.
my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it.
I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it.
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
The video doesn't really show that. Had you moved the steering wheel 2" and held it there and nothing had happened then it would have. All that video showed that it was (definitely) slow to respond, and it's actually pretty clear that it is starting to respond before you apply opposite lock. Not good, I'd agree, but let's be analytical.my 987.2 cars move if you move the wheel 1mm and the steering has way more feel and weight about it.
I lent the OH my R Sun night to take her mate to afternoon tea, she said the steering is heavy but it just goes and does what you tell it.
https://youtu.be/JXlgfbgdoQ4
Edited by PorscheGT4 on Tuesday 2nd June 10:45
bcr5784 said:
The video doesn't really show that. Had you moved the steering wheel 2" and held it there and nothing had happened then it would have. All that video showed that it was (definitely) slow to respond, and it's actually pretty clear that it is starting to respond before you apply opposite lock. Not good, I'd agree, but let's be analytical.
Maybe but still unforgiveable. That kind of thing simply kills a car for some people. The steering in my wife's BMW ruins the car for the same reason - no bloody feel and a dead spot just off straight ahead. The 981 steering is better than that, but my point is that feel is really important to some people.
I don't agree with cmoose re the brakes - to my foot, the level of assistance isn't masively different.
ORD said:
Maybe but still unforgiveable. That kind of thing simply kills a car for some people.
The 981 steering is better than that, but my point is that feel is really important to some people.
I don't agree with cmoose re the brakes - to my foot, the level of assistance isn't masively different.
Feel is REALLY important to me - I'm just trying to better understand what people are saying - and if possible, understand why it may be happening. My own car with PASM set to normal CAN be slow to respond to the steering. It's after a period of calm driving. I suspect it's because the electronics have set the dampers to the soft end of their range - it doesn't happen in Sport mode (when even in the softest setting the damping is much stiffer). The good thing about PASM is that it adapts to road conditions and driving style - but it does mean it can get caught out on occasion. The 981 steering is better than that, but my point is that feel is really important to some people.
I don't agree with cmoose re the brakes - to my foot, the level of assistance isn't masively different.
Is anyone sure about the suspension type (Normal/PASM/Sport) and in the case of PASM what mode when the serious lack of initial steering response occurred?
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