Rev Matching Blips on Downshift.
Discussion
bcr5784 said:
Trotmant said:
This is nonsense. I drive my gts in pdk manual with sport plus on EVERY time I drive the car. I like the additional punch of the gears and enjoy not having to use a clutch and get lighting shifts perfectly timed every time. There is no relationship between only using sport plus on the track.. Granted if you only drive the car in auto it will do as you have described, but unless I'm in London traffic I never use auto mode. Much more fun pulling the paddles and controlling the Rev damage yourself.
He was talking about auto. Personally I'm not keen on Sport let alone Sport + in manual - the over-exaggerated blips on down changes are a bit too boy-racer for me.cardigankid said:
Yes. In my view most people who buy the PDK intend to use it in auto most of the time. Even when they don't does it not default to auto after so many seconds?
Have you any evidence for this? It doesn't default to auto EVER (except a very low revs to prevent labouring) if you select manual. If you are in auto and overide with paddles it does revert to auto after 10 seconds or so. But the fact that you don't seem to understand this difference, suggests to me you don't understand what auto owners might or might not do. Personally I use auto when cruising and override with the paddles if necessary and drive fully manually when hurrying. bcr5784 said:
Have you any evidence for this? It doesn't default to auto EVER (except a very low revs to prevent labouring) if you select manual. If you are in auto and overide with paddles it does revert to auto after 10 seconds or so. But the fact that you don't seem to understand this difference, suggests to me you don't understand what auto owners might or might not do. Personally I use auto when cruising and override with the paddles if necessary and drive fully manually when hurrying.
Fully manual? What the box does is allow you to make some changes between a set of parameters. Oh, and you doing this is inferior to the box doing it.
Manual? You are FAR from being in control. The box is in charge and you are its b
h.mollytherocker said:
Fully manual?
What the box does is allow you to make some changes between a set of parameters. Oh, and you doing this is inferior to the box doing it.
Manual? You are FAR from being in control. The box is in charge and you are its bh.
You know what he meant, Molly. Behave.What the box does is allow you to make some changes between a set of parameters. Oh, and you doing this is inferior to the box doing it.
Manual? You are FAR from being in control. The box is in charge and you are its b
h.For what it's worth, I stopped ever using the car in auto some time ago now. I don't see any advantage to it at all, really, or at least nothing that could come close to making up for the fact that PDK is terrible (truly awful - like a drunken teenager) at knowing when to change gear. It's very slow indeed to change down and has a similarly irritating habit of sometimes holding a gear under highish revs and very light throttle for 2 seconds or more, which is really irritating. It makes me shout 'I've stopped accelerating!' (in my head). In auto mode, I end up correcting its decisions manually so often that I think 'sod this'.
As much as missing the interaction of properly changing gear in a true manual car, I think I just don't like anything but me deciding what gear is appropriate, given that I am the one driving! If anything, the loss of control is worse than the loss of interaction.
The blips in sports and sports plus aren't very theatrical. About right, to my ears.
I'd be happy with auto blip on a road car as I find it difficult to rev match precisely if I'm not fully on the brakes so often don't bother. Most of the time on the road I only apply partial braking so auto Rev matching would be quite welcome.
On the track, I sometimes under Rev on heal toe on certain stops as it helps me trim the car but on say double stints I could see it being a welcome addition. On balance, if it were switchable in both road and race situations I think that I'd find it useful. Certainly, it saved some drivers a lot of gearbox rebuild budget in the Carrera Cup once it was added to the build spec - but the drivers it didn't would probably be quicker without it. Unless I had a full running budget, I'd definitely welcome it on a cup car.
On the track, I sometimes under Rev on heal toe on certain stops as it helps me trim the car but on say double stints I could see it being a welcome addition. On balance, if it were switchable in both road and race situations I think that I'd find it useful. Certainly, it saved some drivers a lot of gearbox rebuild budget in the Carrera Cup once it was added to the build spec - but the drivers it didn't would probably be quicker without it. Unless I had a full running budget, I'd definitely welcome it on a cup car.
mollytherocker said:
Fully manual?
What the box does is allow you to make some changes between a set of parameters. Oh, and you doing this is inferior to the box doing it.
Manual? You are FAR from being in control. The box is in charge and you are its bh.
What a load of rubbish. In manual I choose when and where to change gear - nothing to do with changing a set of parameters. And me choosing the gear is not inferior to the box doing this - I do a much better job than it does. As ORD says the box makes lots of odd choices about what gear to be in regardless of what mode you are in. What the box does is allow you to make some changes between a set of parameters. Oh, and you doing this is inferior to the box doing it.
Manual? You are FAR from being in control. The box is in charge and you are its b
h.But the box does make a better (faster, smoother) fist of actually changing gear than I (or you) can do because of the difference in technology.
Steve Rance said:
I'd be happy with auto blip on a road car as I find it difficult to rev match precisely if I'm not fully on the brakes so often don't bother. Most of the time on the road I only apply partial braking so auto Rev matching would be quite welcome.
On the track, I sometimes under Rev on heal toe on certain stops as it helps me trim the car but on say double stints I could see it being a welcome addition. On balance, if it were switchable in both road and race situations I think that I'd find it useful. Certainly, it saved some drivers a lot of gearbox rebuild budget in the Carrera Cup once it was added to the build spec - but the drivers it didn't would probably be quicker without it. Unless I had a full running budget, I'd definitely welcome it on a cup car.
As you say on the road you are rarely braking hard enough to make heel and toe easy - particularly with the over-servoed brakes most cars have these days.On the track, I sometimes under Rev on heal toe on certain stops as it helps me trim the car but on say double stints I could see it being a welcome addition. On balance, if it were switchable in both road and race situations I think that I'd find it useful. Certainly, it saved some drivers a lot of gearbox rebuild budget in the Carrera Cup once it was added to the build spec - but the drivers it didn't would probably be quicker without it. Unless I had a full running budget, I'd definitely welcome it on a cup car.
bcr5784 said:
What a load of rubbish. In manual I choose when and where to change gear - nothing to do with changing a set of parameters. And me choosing the gear is not inferior to the box doing this - I do a much better job than it does. As ORD says the box makes lots of odd choices about what gear to be in regardless of what mode you are in.
But the box does make a better (faster, smoother) fist of actually changing gear than I (or you) can do because of the difference in technology.
Yep.But the box does make a better (faster, smoother) fist of actually changing gear than I (or you) can do because of the difference in technology.
PDK is miles better at high-rev downshifts than I am. There is one strange exception to this - it isn't really that brilliant at dropping into first at moderate revs and small throttle inputs. It's pretty good at dropping into first at higher revs (given how hard that is to get right), but it's no better than me at doing it at say 10mph.
ORD said:
Yep.
PDK is miles better at high-rev downshifts than I am. There is one strange exception to this - it isn't really that brilliant at dropping into first at moderate revs and small throttle inputs. It's pretty good at dropping into first at higher revs (given how hard that is to get right), but it's no better than me at doing it at say 10mph.
Not noticed the issue you have in changing into first at low revs (though as you say at high revs its very good - which you get to check when you forget that the gearlever works the wrong way!). However mine does sometimes slur the change from 2nd to 3rd at modest revs. That said I've only done 3000 odd miles and I'd expect a manual box to take much longer than that to get to its best. No reason to suppose a PDK one should bed in that much quicker.PDK is miles better at high-rev downshifts than I am. There is one strange exception to this - it isn't really that brilliant at dropping into first at moderate revs and small throttle inputs. It's pretty good at dropping into first at higher revs (given how hard that is to get right), but it's no better than me at doing it at say 10mph.
bcr5784 said:
Not noticed the issue you have in changing into first at low revs (though as you say at high revs its very good - which you get to check when you forget that the gearlever works the wrong way!). However mine does sometimes slur the change from 2nd to 3rd at modest revs. That said I've only done 3000 odd miles and I'd expect a manual box to take much longer than that to get to its best. No reason to suppose a PDK one should bed in that much quicker.
It might be partly my fault - I usually get the amount of thriottle wrong so the box either slams in the change or gives me unwanted engine braking.ORD said:
You know what he meant, Molly. Behave.
For what it's worth, I stopped ever using the car in auto some time ago now. I don't see any advantage to it at all, really, or at least nothing that could come close to making up for the fact that PDK is terrible (truly awful - like a drunken teenager) at knowing when to change gear. It's very slow indeed to change down and has a similarly irritating habit of sometimes holding a gear under highish revs and very light throttle for 2 seconds or more, which is really irritating. It makes me shout 'I've stopped accelerating!' (in my head). In auto mode, I end up correcting its decisions manually so often that I think 'sod this'.
As much as missing the interaction of properly changing gear in a true manual car, I think I just don't like anything but me deciding what gear is appropriate, given that I am the one driving! If anything, the loss of control is worse than the loss of interaction.
The blips in sports and sports plus aren't very theatrical. About right, to my ears.
Me behave? Not likely....For what it's worth, I stopped ever using the car in auto some time ago now. I don't see any advantage to it at all, really, or at least nothing that could come close to making up for the fact that PDK is terrible (truly awful - like a drunken teenager) at knowing when to change gear. It's very slow indeed to change down and has a similarly irritating habit of sometimes holding a gear under highish revs and very light throttle for 2 seconds or more, which is really irritating. It makes me shout 'I've stopped accelerating!' (in my head). In auto mode, I end up correcting its decisions manually so often that I think 'sod this'.
As much as missing the interaction of properly changing gear in a true manual car, I think I just don't like anything but me deciding what gear is appropriate, given that I am the one driving! If anything, the loss of control is worse than the loss of interaction.
The blips in sports and sports plus aren't very theatrical. About right, to my ears.
Manual vs auto has been done to death on here and I am not sure there is much to add. Certainly, the auto champions are winning and are getting what they want.
mollytherocker said:
Manual vs auto has been done to death on here and I am not sure there is much to add. Certainly, the auto champions are winning and are getting what they want.
It appears you are (again) confusing 'auto champions' with those who, with PDK (or more likely PDK-S) enjoy a gearbox which provides them with many of the advantages of both manual and automatic gearboxes...sidicks said:
mollytherocker said:
Manual vs auto has been done to death on here and I am not sure there is much to add. Certainly, the auto champions are winning and are getting what they want.
It appears you are (again) confusing 'auto champions' with those who, with PDK (or more likely PDK-S) enjoy a gearbox which provides them with many of the advantages of both manual and automatic gearboxes...mollytherocker said:
Whats wrong with the term auto champion? Do you not champion the PDK and PDK S?
The thing is that most (all?) of us who have chosen PDK also have driven or do drive manuals, many can heel and toe, and the majority can appreciate and acknowledge the appeal of a manual gearbox, and have no issue with those who prefer manual. We could (quite reasonably I suppose) regard those who prefer manual as luddites wedded to a former era (probably wearing flat caps and going down t'pit). But we don't - because we genuinely can see the appeal of a manual gearbox despite the technical advantages of the alternative.
If those favoring manuals would be equally balanced in their view, then this debate wouldn't continually surface.
sidicks said:
mollytherocker said:
Whats wrong with the term auto champion?
It's inaccurate.mollytherocker said:
Do you not champion the PDK and PDK S?
No, just correct those who (apparently) don't fully understand PDK / PDK-S...bcr5784 said:
The thing is that most (all?) of us who have chosen PDK also have driven or do drive manuals, many can heel and toe, and the majority can appreciate and acknowledge the appeal of a manual gearbox, and have no issue with those who prefer manual.
We could (quite reasonably I suppose) regard those who prefer manual as luddites wedded to a former era (probably wearing flat caps and going down t'pit). But we don't - because we genuinely can see the appeal of a manual gearbox despite the technical advantages of the alternative.
If those favoring manuals would be equally balanced in their view, then this debate wouldn't continually surface.
What 'balance' do you want me to give? I can only give my genuine view of a gearbox.We could (quite reasonably I suppose) regard those who prefer manual as luddites wedded to a former era (probably wearing flat caps and going down t'pit). But we don't - because we genuinely can see the appeal of a manual gearbox despite the technical advantages of the alternative.
If those favoring manuals would be equally balanced in their view, then this debate wouldn't continually surface.
mollytherocker said:
A fair bit of pedantry there Sidicks. And I dont need you to 'correct' me thank you. I understand them fully.
In that case it's somewhat strange how you keep making misleading claims about said gearboxes (and about those who enjoy using then on some of their cars)...sidicks said:
mollytherocker said:
A fair bit of pedantry there Sidicks. And I dont need you to 'correct' me thank you. I understand them fully.
In that case it's somewhat strange how you keep making misleading claims about said gearboxes (and about those who enjoy using then on some of their cars)...Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff