981 Cayman 2.7 PDK

[ORD]

The 2.7 has so little torque and such long gears that you spend most of your time in town in 1st and 2nd gears and with your foot on the mat just to make reasonable progress. I was quite surprised at how ill-suited it is to the task.

There are plenty of very good reasons to prefer the 3.4, including that it is a lot faster. I am hardly obsessed with speed, but it would be a factor to me that the 2.7 would not facilitate some overtakes that are easy with the bigger engine.

I have only driven a manual 2.7. But the PDK ratios aren't hugely different.

[bcr5784]

Ozzie Osmond said:

That's a new one on me - a 7-speed automatic gearbox which has the wrong gears for driving in town!

I wasn't referring to driving in town. It's the gap between 2nd and 3rd AND the hole in the torque between 2000 and 4000 that is the issue (for me) even on the S. At 50 - (less than 4k and a very typical speed to have to overtake from ) you either use 2nd and scream it or use 3rd and find the initial response is somewhat lacking until the revs get to 4500. And that's with PDK gearing.

[truck71]

ORD said:

The 2.7 has so little torque and such long gears that you spend most of your time in town in 1st and 2nd gears and with your foot on the mat just to make reasonable progress. I was quite surprised at how ill-suited it is to the task.

There are plenty of very good reasons to prefer the 3.4, including that it is a lot faster. I am hardly obsessed with speed, but it would be a factor to me that the 2.7 would not facilitate some overtakes that are easy with the bigger engine.

I have only driven a manual 2.7. But the PDK ratios aren't hugely different.

Don't think that makes much sense. In town you let the gearbox do the work, you don't have your foot on the floor because it's well, in town. As such you're driving appropriately for the environment. PDK works brilliantly in town, you use hardly any of the engines potential and it cruises around like a limo (albeit a firmly sprung one). To get a bigger engine for town driving is ridiculous; overtakes agreed.

[ORD]

truck71 said:

Don't think that makes much sense. In town you let the gearbox do the work, you don't have your foot on the floor because it's well, in town. As such you're driving appropriately for the environment. PDK works brilliantly in town, you use hardly any of the engines potential and it cruises around like a limo (albeit a firmly sprung one). To get a bigger engine for town driving is ridiculous; overtakes agreed.

We are obviously very different drivers. I have a PDK car and never let the 'box choose the gears (as it is terrible at it). It sounds to me like you are 'driving on the torque', which I would never do with a Porsche engine - see what Hartech say about the effect on our lovely chocolate engines

Pulling off from lights in a 2.7 does require a lot of throttle! I don't know how anyone can disagree with that. 'Foot to the floor' is an exaggeration, of course, but it's not a car that will pull without a lot of throttle. It's more like driving an NA hatchback from back in the day than any other car I have driven recently. I like it a lot, but it isn't what most people are used to these days. I expect the average porsche buyer would think it very slow.

[klootzak]

ORD said:

The 2.7 has so little torque and such long gears that you spend most of your time in town in 1st and 2nd gears and with your foot on the mat just to make reasonable progress.

Are you serious?

Admittedly, I haven't driven a 2.7 981 (mine is a 2.9 987), but "foot on the floor" to "make reasonable progress" seems a touch hyperbolic.

It may not be particularly fast, but you're still talking about a car that develops 220nm of torque at 1500 rpm. The gears would have to be titanically long to make it so slow you couldn't make reasonable progress in town.

Maybe you don't push down enough. You know, with your right foot.

k

[truck71]

ORD said:

We are obviously very different drivers. I have a PDK car and never let the 'box choose the gears (as it is terrible at it). It sounds to me like you are 'driving on the torque', which I would never do with a Porsche engine - see what Hartech say about the effect on our lovely chocolate engines

Pulling off from lights in a 2.7 does require a lot of throttle! I don't know how anyone can disagree with that. 'Foot to the floor' is an exaggeration, of course, but it's not a car that will pull without a lot of throttle. It's more like driving an NA hatchback from back in the day than any other car I have driven recently. I like it a lot, but it isn't what most people are used to these days. I expect the average porsche buyer would think it very slow.

I think you might need to get your PDK software looked at, mine changed gears exactly as I would want it to in town- a gentle prod of gas would see it pull away fine (need to get the stop/start function default changed though). It's why I went PDK to let it take the stress from commuting. When you're in the mood, shift the lever left and play tunes with the flat six.

[vernz]

I have a 2.7 manual which a bought new in March.

My wife has a Kia Proceed GT with just over 200bhp and with the turbo delivery, I must admit that it can feel quicker than the Porsche in normal use.

Looking at the 0-60 times (5.5 v 7.1) the Porsche is obviously quicker, but without getting bogged down on the gearing issue, it does feel like that part of the car could be improved. However once the cars are up to speed and the Porsche is in the sweet spot, then the whole experience changes.

Personally I love the car. It's not perfect and coming from a 997 Carrera S with a decent amount of torque, I've had to adjust my driving style a bit, which is exactly what EVO Magazine were saying in a recent review where initially they said it felt slower than most of the other cars in the test (RCZ R, TTS, Exige, 370Z Nismo) and then went on to set a faster lap time than all of them!!

[ORD]

truck71 said:

I think you might need to get your PDK software looked at, mine changed gears exactly as I would want it to in town- a gentle prod of gas would see it pull away fine (need to get the stop/start function default changed though). It's why I went PDK to let it take the stress from commuting. When you're in the mood, shift the lever left and play tunes with the flat six.

As I say, we are different drivers. I would never let the engine labour, and PDK allows plenty of labouring. Check what speed it drops into 1st from 2nd. It's about 6mph under light throttle pressure. That's ridiculous - it well below 1000 revs. Similarly, it will happily pootle along at 28mph in 6th gear. That's insane. It will take 7th at 48 mph. Bonkers.

Nobody would drive a manual car like that.

This is standard PDK software. I have asked and had it checked.

[truck71]

ORD said:

As I say, we are different drivers. I would never let the engine labour, and PDK allows plenty of labouring. Check what speed it drops into 1st from 2nd. It's about 6mph under light throttle pressure. That's ridiculous - it well below 1000 revs. Similarly, it will happily pootle along at 28mph in 6th gear. That's insane. It will take 7th at 48 mph. Bonkers.

Nobody would drive a manual car like that.

This is standard PDK software. I have asked and had it checked.

I never really checked the road speed vs ratio selected but your info would sound about right. Never worried me about the engine running low revs, it was smooth enough. It would happily kick down when needed so I never really found it an issue- not often required in urban environments as I cruised about (doesn't sound very good does it) rather than roared about.

[ORD]

truck71 said:

I never really checked the road speed vs ratio selected but your info would sound about right. Never worried me about the engine running low revs, it was smooth enough. It would happily kick down when needed so I never really found it an issue- not often required in urban environments as I cruised about (doesn't sound very good does it) rather than roared about.

Listen and feel for the engine labouring. It's really annoying once you notice it. Sure, it'll pull through because it's a strong engine, but it cannot be good for long term reliability.

[uktrailmonster]

ORD said:

As I say, we are different drivers. I would never let the engine labour, and PDK allows plenty of labouring. Check what speed it drops into 1st from 2nd. It's about 6mph under light throttle pressure. That's ridiculous - it well below 1000 revs. Similarly, it will happily pootle along at 28mph in 6th gear. That's insane. It will take 7th at 48 mph. Bonkers.

Nobody would drive a manual car like that.

This is standard PDK software. I have asked and had it checked.

My 997 4S with PDK is also pretty lethargic in standard auto mode, pretty much as you describe above, but not so in sport mode and certainly not in sport + mode! I drive it in manual most of the time, but when I use auto I normally use sport mode. Sport + is too far the other way for general road use, revs the nuts off it. But sport mode gives pretty sensible upshifts for day-to-day driving. I'm sure it would be the same with the Cayman software too. So basically you do have a choice. Plus if you drive more aggressively in standard mode it adapts to your driving style anyway after a while. Or you can just drive it in manual mode of course, which I think works best too.

[nsm3]

+1.

I never, ever, use standard auto mode - feels as if something's wrong with the car, very lethargic.

Edited by nsm3 on Monday 3rd August 16:15

[bcr5784]

uktrailmonster said:

My 997 4S with PDK is also pretty lethargic in standard auto mode, pretty much as you describe above, but not so in sport mode and certainly not in sport + mode! I drive it in manual most of the time, but when I use auto I normally use sport mode. Sport + is too far the other way for general road use, revs the nuts off it. But sport mode gives pretty sensible upshifts for day-to-day driving. I'm sure it would be the same with the Cayman software too. So basically you do have a choice. Plus if you drive more aggressively in standard mode it adapts to your driving style anyway after a while. Or you can just drive it in manual mode of course, which I think works best too.

Not keen on Sport mode - it gets overexcited - works ok on twisty B roads but often hangs on to the lower gears too long on mixed going. I'm not keen on the boy-racer overblips on down changes either. ORD is right though it is just a bit too keen to change up in standard. Manual is the only real solution.

[Mario149]

For me:

Heavy London traffic / queuing traffic = normal mode w/ stop start and auto and PSE off as I'm only ever tickling the throttle to move a few metres
Regular driving = sport mode, PSE on, auto, and stop-start off as the gearbox holds gears how I would in manual anyway....I occasionally flick a paddle to downshift a bit early when coming slowing as I like the sound
Motorway driving = normal mode with PSE off and auto, but with quite a lot of manual override as I find that the 'box doesn't kick down as quickly as I'd like
Hooning = Sport or Sport+, always manual mode, PSE on, suspension setting dependent on road quality

[ORD]

uktrailmonster said:

My 997 4S with PDK is also pretty lethargic in standard auto mode, pretty much as you describe above, but not so in sport mode and certainly not in sport + mode! I drive it in manual most of the time, but when I use auto I normally use sport mode. Sport + is too far the other way for general road use, revs the nuts off it. But sport mode gives pretty sensible upshifts for day-to-day driving. I'm sure it would be the same with the Cayman software too. So basically you do have a choice. Plus if you drive more aggressively in standard mode it adapts to your driving style anyway after a while. Or you can just drive it in manual mode of course, which I think works best too.

The 'learning' is extremely crude and practically pointless. I drove it for a while in normal mode and the 'box never stopped doing the things I have described - as soon as you are gentle with the throttle, it sticks you in an absurdly high gear and then needs a big prod before changing down (and even then it lets you labour the engine for half a second first). It really is an 'eco' setting with all that comes with that!

[uktrailmonster]

ORD said:

The 'learning' is extremely crude and practically pointless. I drove it for a while in normal mode and the 'box never stopped doing the things I have described - as soon as you are gentle with the throttle, it sticks you in an absurdly high gear and then needs a big prod before changing down (and even then it lets you labour the engine for half a second first). It really is an 'eco' setting with all that comes with that!

Sure, but you have other auto modes to choose from - that was my point. But I find mine does adapt fairly quickly if you put your foot down a few times (actually I think it just switches to sport mode rather than truly adapts). But anyway the buttons are there to choose whatever mode you like. Standard is very much an "eco" mode as you suggest, sport is fairly sporty and sport + is very aggressive. Manual is manual.

[uktrailmonster]

bcr5784 said:

Not keen on Sport mode - it gets overexcited - works ok on twisty B roads but often hangs on to the lower gears too long on mixed going. I'm not keen on the boy-racer overblips on down changes either. ORD is right though it is just a bit too keen to change up in standard. Manual is the only real solution.

Luckily the 997 software doesn't do all the boy-racer over blips in any mode. I borrowed a 991 GTS recently and it was just like you describe!

[ORD]

uktrailmonster said:

Sure, but you have other auto modes to choose from - that was my point. But I find mine does adapt fairly quickly if you put your foot down a few times (actually I think it just switches to sport mode rather than truly adapts). But anyway the buttons are there to choose whatever mode you like. Standard is very much an "eco" mode as you suggest, sport is fairly sporty and sport + is very aggressive. Manual is manual.

Yep. And manual is the only decent option for me. I don't see the point in 'Sport' and 'Sport Plus' except for track driving - if you're driving for pleasure, why would you let the box choose the gears? And they are both far to rev-happy for sedate driving.

[uktrailmonster]

ORD said:

Yep. And manual is the only decent option for me. I don't see the point in 'Sport' and 'Sport Plus' except for track driving - if you're driving for pleasure, why would you let the box choose the gears? And they are both far to rev-happy for sedate driving.

Manual is my preference too for driving pleasure, but I don't actually find Sport auto to be overly aggressive (not on my 997 anyway, maybe the Caymen settings are different). I never use Sport + auto mode for road driving though and to be fair the user manual describes it as a setting specifically for track use - although I'm not sure why you would do a track day in auto!

[Ozzie Osmond]

uktrailmonster said:

I never use Sport + auto mode for road driving though and to be fair the user manual describes it as a setting specifically for track use!

I pushed the Sport+ button in my 2.7 PDK loan car. It was hilarious - setting minimum rpm at about 5,000! Useful? No.