Admission of negligence

[Oso]

Careful matey any question of negligence would have to look at why you did not inspect the condition of the tyres before you started the journey. There is an obligation on the driver to verify his vehicle is in a road worthy condition. Given the problem as you describe it, the accelerated tyre wear would have occurred over the month and you should have spotted it before the blow-out - ideally by inspecting the tyre or by noticing an issue with the handling. Clearly there was a problem with the work that was done and whoever did the work has their blame to take. You have my sympathy and that of most folks on here by the looks of things - please don't shoot the messenger - just wouldn't want you getting yourself in trouble by forcing the issue.

[sebulban]

sidicks said:

I'm just amazed that if the tyres have genuinely worn as much as shown, and so inconsistently, you wouldn't have noticed a problem when driving!

What sort of problems?

I don't really push it hard.

And no nothing major. Maybe when its all sorted and its back to normal i will be like.... WTF. But its not like anythings stood out.

A friend has suggested delaminated?

[Oso]

Regarding the cause, if the geo wasn't touched when the tyres were changed, you'd either have noticed similar wear on the old tyres, or you've had a suspension failure in the meantime. It is possible (maybe even likely) that the dealer did do the geo but made an a**e of it - that tyre wear is consistent with having way too much negative camber.

[sebulban]

Oso said:

Careful matey any question of negligence would have to look at why you did not inspect the condition of the tyres before you started the journey. There is an obligation on the driver to verify his vehicle is in a road worthy condition. Given the problem as you describe it, the accelerated tyre wear would have occurred over the month and you should have spotted it before the blow-out - ideally by inspecting the tyre or by noticing an issue with the handling. Clearly there was a problem with the work that was done and whoever did the work has their blame to take. You have my sympathy and that of most folks on here by the looks of things - please don't shoot the messenger - just wouldn't want you getting yourself in trouble by forcing the issue.

Thanks mate appreciate your comments.

I am taking legal advice and am yet to hear Porsche head office thoughts.

I take your point, but to me thats a huge cop out if they followed that line because how often do people fully inspect their vehicles before journies? Last thing i would expect on a month old set of tyres is them to be capable of killing me!!! But if Im given that from porsche or solicitors Ill be sure to let you say i told you so haha!

[sebulban]

Oso said:

Regarding the cause, if the geo wasn't touched when the tyres were changed, you'd either have noticed similar wear on the old tyres, or you've had a suspension failure in the meantime. It is possible (maybe even likely) that the dealer did do the geo but made an a**e of it - that tyre wear is consistent with having way too much negative camber.

I purchased the car last July. And the car has run fine. Tyres needed changing in May this year so did all 4. I can't say I noticed anything handling wise.

Service was done in May too and passed fine.

Also car had warranty put back on after 111 point check in Feb I think.

[RyanTank]

got to be honest here OP. Not sure what your looking for from Porsche?

They are already covering costs of the repairs, also not entirely sure what is in it for solicitors to chase this up, so many different factors could have affected the car since the wheels were fitted. As someone else said, they could pull you up on not checking the road worthiness of your car before each journey, but honestly who does?

Given the state on the inner tyre edge I'd have thought they would have been rubbing on something to have worn out so fast, maybe you'd have heard it and thought it as nothing, or even smelt the burning of the rubber if it was actually rubbing against something.

Bear in mind also the fact that Porsche UK will have an amazing legal team should you decide to push on with whatever it is your seeking legally. and unless you have that level of legal representation prepare to lose.

Finally taking the word of a recovery guy also means diddily. My mates a recovery man and he knows nothing about cars mechanically, aside from the best way to load one on the back of his truck, and even then its a bit ropey at times! (not saying they are all like that however)

[bcr5784]

Oso said:

Regarding the cause, if the geo wasn't touched when the tyres were changed, you'd either have noticed similar wear on the old tyres, or you've had a suspension failure in the meantime. It is possible (maybe even likely) that the dealer did do the geo but made an a**e of it - that tyre wear is consistent with having way too much negative camber.

I'm surprized if it's possible to get enough negative camber to cause that degree of wear unless something had broken on BOTH sides. The pictures don't appear to show massive negative camber. I'd be more inclined to think excessive rear toe out.

[sebulban]

RyanTank said:

got to be honest here OP. Not sure what your looking for from Porsche?

They are already covering costs of the repairs, also not entirely sure what is in it for solicitors to chase this up, so many different factors could have affected the car since the wheels were fitted. As someone else said, they could pull you up on not checking the road worthiness of your car before each journey, but honestly who does?

Given the state on the inner tyre edge I'd have thought they would have been rubbing on something to have worn out so fast, maybe you'd have heard it and thought it as nothing, or even smelt the burning of the rubber if it was actually rubbing against something.

Bear in mind also the fact that Porsche UK will have an amazing legal team should you decide to push on with whatever it is your seeking legally. and unless you have that level of legal representation prepare to lose.

Finally taking the word of a recovery guy also means diddily. My mates a recovery man and he knows nothing about cars mechanically, aside from the best way to load one on the back of his truck, and even then its a bit ropey at times! (not saying they are all like that however)

Part of my reason for posting is I don't know is the honest answer what Im expected.

Im a professional MMA fighter but am big enough, and ugly enough, to admit I was slightly shaken up at the thought of the potential carnage that could have occurred.

Im also bright enough to know that the AA guy isn't an "expert" nor that Porsche wouldn't have a st hot legal team.

But them admitting a level of liability. Ill add in that I have had a fair few issues with the particular dealer. Just seems negligent.

If all I get is costs covered a full check to make sure there is nothing underlying I will take that. But if there is a wider legal case / compensation to be had, clearly ill pursue.

I work for a large finance company who have hooked me up with a firm who specialise in this sort of thing. If they say exactly what you guys are - then ill post here so people can see that should this issue happen to them this is the likely outcome!!!!!!

[Oso]

Honestly champ, you need to stand under a cold shower. You've got your replacement new tyres. Take the car to a suspension specialist and get the geo done properly. Maybe have a quiet word with the the OPC dealer principal, make sure it doesn't happen again, see if he makes you some sort of additional gesture. Setting the lawyers on them is not the answer. It will end your relationship with the OPC, possibly Porsche as a whole, cost you a load of money and angst and you'll probably not get very far, as I said above. Just chalk it up to experience and be thankful no one was hurt.

[bcr5784]

Given that the problem is almost certainly caused by faulty rear suspension geometry (however caused) I'd be inclined to have a geometry check. If you can determine what the exact cause of the problem is then you will be in a better position to have a discussion with your dealer.

[sebulban]

Ozzie Osmond said:

So to repeat a question that was asked earlier in the thread, what was the condition of the previous set of tyres which were taken off?
And how long had they been on the car?

I don't think the garage have "admitted" anything, let alone negligence.

They had normal wear and were replaced as they had reached their normal end of life. They were on, I believe, for circa 15,000 miles.

And them apologising and putting in writing the tracking/geometry was not done properly when the tyres were replaced isn't an admission of anything?

I take the point from other lads post about ending my relationship with Porsche by setting lawyers on them. Im only taking advice (as I'm taking here) and await porsche head office calling me and letting me know what they think of it all.

But I wont be using that centre again as this is the third instance of poor work.

[Trev450]

bcr5784 said:

I'm surprized if it's possible to get enough negative camber to cause that degree of wear unless something had broken on BOTH sides. The pictures don't appear to show massive negative camber. I'd be more inclined to think excessive rear toe out.

Under normal circumstances I would agree, however the op says he couldn't feel anything untoward in the handing yet if if it was to have had excessive toeout, the liklihood of oversteer would have been highly probable.

[DarkMatter]

sebulban said:

Apparently they now need to also put in new rear suspension adjustment bolts too.

Could there be a clue here? Perhaps these suspension adjustment bolts have failed causing the excessive tyre wear?

[sebulban]

DarkMatter said:

Could there be a clue here? Perhaps these suspension adjustment bolts have failed causing the excessive tyre wear?

Potentially.

Or where the tyre blew out and I landed on the wheel till i pulled off the motorway it was damaged?

[mollytherocker]

You said that the tyres had only been on a month and then later said they were fitted in May?

Which is it?

[sebulban]

mollytherocker said:

You said that the tyres had only been on a month and then later said they were fitted in May?

Which is it?

Ok to be 100% precise...... sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They were fitted May 27th.....

I then went on holiday for a month to Mexico (to not miss any crucial details haha).

By my calculations thats probably about 6 weeks of use...... my apologies.

Does that change anything?

[sidicks]

sebulban said:

Ok to be 100% precise...... sorry!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

They were fitted May 27th.....

I then went on holiday for a month to Mexico (to not miss any crucial details haha).

By my calculations thats probably about 6 weeks of use...... my apologies.

Does that change anything?

Does your car have TPMS and if so, did you not notice the pressures increasing significantly on a long drive (which I would assume they must have, given the wear on the insides)?

[sleep envy]

U

sebulban said:

Not to repeat myself.

The tyres are all a month old.

.

Can you post a pic of the date stamps on the sidewalls please.

[bcr5784]

Trev450 said:

Under normal circumstances I would agree, however the op says he couldn't feel anything untoward in the handing yet if if it was to have had excessive toeout, the liklihood of oversteer would have been highly probable.

Agree about oversteer, but difficult to imagine what else would have that effect (toe in would cause wear on the outer shoulders)

[sebulban]

sidicks said:

Does your car have TPMS and if so, did you not notice the pressures increasing significantly on a long drive (which I would assume they must have, given the wear on the insides)?

The only thing that happened of note was on the journey where it blew a few minutes before the PSM warning light went on on the dash.... I was thinking to myself is that important because you can manually switch it off. But before I could even get into any other thoughts the steering wheel was vibrating haha and so I was off on hard shoulder!!

Ill add in.... the journey i was doing was a long one that I only do to west wales to see my parents a few times a year. So had.... a few days before..... checked all the tyre pressures and no huge issues.