12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing
Discussion
bcr5784 said:
I really can't see why those who want PDK shouldn't have the choice - and those that want manual should have that too. Let's face it most GT4s for sale have loads of trinkets - most have PCM, climate control, etc even CRUISE control. (Don't get me started on contrasting stitching, PTS etc) And the odd ones that don't are generally priced well below those that do. So clearly that is what at least the majority of the market wants.
Mine has loads of trinkets, all that you mentioned and more, but it's not for sale and it won't be for the foreseeable future. I didn't spec it for the market, I specced it for me and I like the trinkets, they make it a nicer car.
me too, I also drive a Ford ST3 and it has every thing, when one spends £80k on a car you want the same level of kit.
I use cruise, Cup holders etc most days and while you sit there on the M1 in 25 miles of 50mph ave camera's then you might as well have it looking nice also.
most people only do 2 or 3 track days a year, these are road cars and missing off spec just makes them harder to enjoy and then yes harder to sell.
I am shocked 90% of the cars don't have the extra power lights, that was my 1st tick box.
I did not spec LED inside lights, carbon sills etc, but you have to spend about £10k to just get what normal cars have.
there are even PTS cars with PCCBS which is £8k of kit, but no cruise, PDSL or carbon inside and people want £100k for them, no wonder they sit there unsold.
the only item I spec for resale was PCM which is a annoying high cost item which is useless s
t, but resale without PCM is a killer on cars under 3 years old.
I use cruise, Cup holders etc most days and while you sit there on the M1 in 25 miles of 50mph ave camera's then you might as well have it looking nice also.
most people only do 2 or 3 track days a year, these are road cars and missing off spec just makes them harder to enjoy and then yes harder to sell.
I am shocked 90% of the cars don't have the extra power lights, that was my 1st tick box.
I did not spec LED inside lights, carbon sills etc, but you have to spend about £10k to just get what normal cars have.
there are even PTS cars with PCCBS which is £8k of kit, but no cruise, PDSL or carbon inside and people want £100k for them, no wonder they sit there unsold.
the only item I spec for resale was PCM which is a annoying high cost item which is useless s
t, but resale without PCM is a killer on cars under 3 years old.Agreed on a 70-80k car a few trinkets are needed.
On a quick drive past my OPC yesterday evening I couldn't help but notice the abundance of 718 's sitting around.
I like the look of them- more familiar as a Porsche than the 981.
But my goodness given the elephant in the room,looking at the price stickers, they're an expensive little trinket!
If it's possible to make a GT4 at circa 75k listlook like a bargain, the 718 has been entirely successful.
On a quick drive past my OPC yesterday evening I couldn't help but notice the abundance of 718 's sitting around.
I like the look of them- more familiar as a Porsche than the 981.
But my goodness given the elephant in the room,looking at the price stickers, they're an expensive little trinket!
If it's possible to make a GT4 at circa 75k listlook like a bargain, the 718 has been entirely successful.
bcr5784 said:
If it was as simple as that then the base cars wouldn't be priced so far below those with the trinkets. The "real drivers" buying them secondhand wouldn't pay so much more for the ones with trinkets.
'Real drivers' being those using the GT4 as a daily. Thats the beauty of 'progress' with GT cars, okay so you lose a degree of 'hardcore' driver involvement but with the greater benefit of increased usability, unlike previous models.Hence the 'requirement' for sat nav, leather, carbon to match the fantastic 918 buckets and a lovely area of coloured stitching to compliment the daily driving experience. And why not....choosing the right extras boost the residuals too.
paralla said:
Mine has loads of trinkets, all that you mentioned and more, but it's not for sale and it won't be for the foreseeable future.
I didn't spec it for the market, I specced it for me and I like the trinkets, they make it a nicer car.
That wasn't really aimed at you or anyone who has trinkets - it was to explain that in reality people bought GT4s much like any other Cayman - so why should they limited to manual? It seems to be a rather spurious macho image thing that "real driver's cars" have to be manual. If you prefer manual - fine you should have the choice, but why should others who for whatever reason want PDK be prevented having it. I have absolutely no doubt that if the GT4 was offered with both that the majority would choose PDK (non-drivers with small willies, I know).I didn't spec it for the market, I specced it for me and I like the trinkets, they make it a nicer car.
Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 22 October 10:47
I think porsche were going to offer pdk and I believe there was a test mule, but it would have been too quick for marketing!
I never specd PCM ( I am never going to be able to sell
)but I do have leather , pdls and mobile phone prep. the only "trinkets" dual aircon, design interior lighting and sound package plus with dab!
I never specd PCM ( I am never going to be able to sell
)but I do have leather , pdls and mobile phone prep. the only "trinkets" dual aircon, design interior lighting and sound package plus with dab!bcr5784 said:
That wasn't really aimed at you or anyone who has trinkets - it was to explain that in reality people bought GT4s much like any other Cayman - so why should they limited to manual? It seems to be a rather spurious macho image thing that "real driver's cars" have to be manual. If you prefer manual - fine you should have the choice, but why should others who for whatever reason want PDK be prevented having it. I have absolutely no doubt that if the GT4 was offered with both that the majority would choose PDK (non-drivers with small willies, I know).
I agree. I was in the market for a 981 Spyder until it was launched without PDK. Hopefully the same won't happen with 718 Spyder!Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 22 October 10:47
av185 said:
'Real drivers' being those using the GT4 as a daily. Thats the beauty of 'progress' with GT cars, okay so you lose a degree of 'hardcore' driver involvement but with the greater benefit of increased usability, unlike previous models.
Hence the 'requirement' for sat nav, leather, carbon to match the fantastic 918 buckets and a lovely area of coloured stitching to compliment the daily driving experience. And why not....choosing the right extras boost the residuals too.
IMO its a a real shame GT cars are going this way. I'm fortunate to own a Carerra GT and a 996 RS as well as my GT4. The driving experience in the other GT cars is a much more involving experience that asks much more of you as a driver - they are so absorbing and engrossing to drive. I think GT cars should be kept as a weekend car that takes time to get to know and get the best out of. That's the enjoyment of them, no DD's that you can just jump in cross europe in and find extremely comfortable, with no reward for having to work for your thrills. Hence the 'requirement' for sat nav, leather, carbon to match the fantastic 918 buckets and a lovely area of coloured stitching to compliment the daily driving experience. And why not....choosing the right extras boost the residuals too.
If you compare a 360 to the 488 you could use the same logic but refinement comes with time.
You are also comparing a CGT which is a one off bespoke car to a mass produced platform car with 99% road car parts vs a car which was basically designed to be a race car in the 1990s. The feel is always going to be worlds apart.
You are also comparing a CGT which is a one off bespoke car to a mass produced platform car with 99% road car parts vs a car which was basically designed to be a race car in the 1990s. The feel is always going to be worlds apart.
Ravi355 said:
IMO its a a real shame GT cars are going this way. I'm fortunate to own a Carerra GT and a 996 RS as well as my GT4. The driving experience in the other GT cars is a much more involving experience that asks much more of you as a driver - they are so absorbing and engrossing to drive. I think GT cars should be kept as a weekend car that takes time to get to know and get the best out of. That's the enjoyment of them, no DD's that you can just jump in cross europe in and find extremely comfortable, with no reward for having to work for your thrills.
It is the term GT that has been corrupted - it does stand for Grand Touring, so that's exactly what a GT should do. Unfortunately VW (with the GTI) corrupted it first, and the FIA didn't help by classifying cars as GT1,2,3,4 - when they are not, by any reasonable definition Grand Touring Cars - and then Porsche calls its slightly more uncivilised cars GT3 or GT4 (the term hard core would be totally inappropriate) when they are really nothing like true FIA GT3 and 4 cars (and would be so genuinely hard core that they would virtually unsaleable if they were).I personally doubt there is that much of a (volume) market for really hard core cars. Only those that can afford a number of cars would buy, and because the market was small, the price would have to go up, so the market would be even smaller.
bcr5784 said:
Sierra Mike said:
I agree the PDK-S was well suited to the 991 GT3 but it still contributed to the lack of driver engagement on the road. I'm really looking forward to seeing a manual only option for the 991.2 GT3 ... fingers crossed. Again I agree with regards to the GT4. It's well proportioned compared to the 991 and mid-engined to boot (no pun intended!). Driving the 991 back to back with the 997 made it clear just how much of a longer car the 991 is.
I really can't see why those who want PDK shouldn't have the choice - and those that want manual should have that too. Let's face it most GT4s for sale have loads of trinkets - most have PCM, climate control, etc even CRUISE control. (Don't get me started on contrasting stitching, PTS etc) And the odd ones that don't are generally priced well below those that do. So clearly that is what at least the majority of the market wants. Ravi355 said:
av185 said:
'Real drivers' being those using the GT4 as a daily. Thats the beauty of 'progress' with GT cars, okay so you lose a degree of 'hardcore' driver involvement but with the greater benefit of increased usability, unlike previous models.
Hence the 'requirement' for sat nav, leather, carbon to match the fantastic 918 buckets and a lovely area of coloured stitching to compliment the daily driving experience. And why not....choosing the right extras boost the residuals too.
IMO its a a real shame GT cars are going this way. I'm fortunate to own a Carerra GT and a 996 RS as well as my GT4. The driving experience in the other GT cars is a much more involving experience that asks much more of you as a driver - they are so absorbing and engrossing to drive. I think GT cars should be kept as a weekend car that takes time to get to know and get the best out of. That's the enjoyment of them, no DD's that you can just jump in cross europe in and find extremely comfortable, with no reward for having to work for your thrills. Hence the 'requirement' for sat nav, leather, carbon to match the fantastic 918 buckets and a lovely area of coloured stitching to compliment the daily driving experience. And why not....choosing the right extras boost the residuals too.
Sierra Mike said:
Those trinkets were available on the 911R as well but there's a reason the car was available as manual only and likewise for the GT4. The trinkets don't change the actual driving experience, they just make the car easier to live with.
Accepting that PDK changes the experience, I'm really at a loss to see why those who want a somewhat different experience shouldn't be able to have it. It is, in effect, Porsche saying that they don't want the sort of person who would prefer to buy PDK being sold one of their cars.Rolls Royce might have adopted that sort of snobbish attitude 60-100 years ago, but imo it has no place today.
I'm actually interested to know if any prospective buyers monitor this thread and what price point they are waiting for? Are they looking for a winter "bargain", or for prices to hit a certain level? My car is days away from winter storage due to reasons previously explained, but would be hard to resist that urge to sell a well specced car at ~£86 privately if buyers were willing to buy direct.
mdianuk said:
I'm actually interested to know if any prospective buyers monitor this thread and what price point they are waiting for? Are they looking for a winter "bargain", or for prices to hit a certain level? My car is days away from winter storage due to reasons previously explained, but would be hard to resist that urge to sell a well specced car at ~£86 privately if buyers were willing to buy direct.
I am potential GT4 buyer, Wanted one when they first came out but was moving house so could get one, don't know if i would have been given a build slot either. It would have been a keeper so i recently bought a GTS as something to have now as I am not paying over list, and I do not want to pay the 15K overs on a GT4, it just doesn't make sense in my head.I read this thread as its something to read, but price wise I just look on autotrader etc. Cheapest private car is 82K 7K miles and has Buckets, trade bid for this would be way way lower 75K, its not selling. OPC SOR 99K cars are actually going through at nowhere near that price (Clubsport / Ceramic Spec). I'm in no rush, Id prefer a GT3 over a GT4 anyway, but when the GT4 OPC cars start being listed at 85K-80K i'll start looking again with a view to buy around list. This is not a long way away, too many cars in the market. But if you want the car you pay your monies on what the market dictates, I just don't want it enough now to pay huge overs.
JayK12 said:
I am potential GT4 buyer, Wanted one when they first came out but was moving house so could get one, don't know if i would have been given a build slot either. It would have been a keeper so i recently bought a GTS as something to have now as I am not paying over list, and I do not want to pay the 15K overs on a GT4, it just doesn't make sense in my head.
I read this thread as its something to read, but price wise I just look on autotrader etc. Cheapest private car is 82K 7K miles and has Buckets, trade bid for this would be way way lower 75K, its not selling. OPC SOR 99K cars are actually going through at nowhere near that price (Clubsport / Ceramic Spec). I'm in no rush, Id prefer a GT3 over a GT4 anyway, but when the GT4 OPC cars start being listed at 85K-80K i'll start looking again with a view to buy around list. This is not a long way away, too many cars in the market. But if you want the car you pay your monies on what the market dictates, I just don't want it enough now to pay huge overs.
Worth noting that the drop on prices isn't just related to the GT4. All used porsches seem to have taken a hit in October. I have noticed that 991.1 GT3's have also dropped. Just that time of the year. Would think prices would stabalise come spring next year. I read this thread as its something to read, but price wise I just look on autotrader etc. Cheapest private car is 82K 7K miles and has Buckets, trade bid for this would be way way lower 75K, its not selling. OPC SOR 99K cars are actually going through at nowhere near that price (Clubsport / Ceramic Spec). I'm in no rush, Id prefer a GT3 over a GT4 anyway, but when the GT4 OPC cars start being listed at 85K-80K i'll start looking again with a view to buy around list. This is not a long way away, too many cars in the market. But if you want the car you pay your monies on what the market dictates, I just don't want it enough now to pay huge overs.
m88ony said:
JayK12 said:
I am potential GT4 buyer, Wanted one when they first came out but was moving house so could get one, don't know if i would have been given a build slot either. It would have been a keeper so i recently bought a GTS as something to have now as I am not paying over list, and I do not want to pay the 15K overs on a GT4, it just doesn't make sense in my head.
I read this thread as its something to read, but price wise I just look on autotrader etc. Cheapest private car is 82K 7K miles and has Buckets, trade bid for this would be way way lower 75K, its not selling. OPC SOR 99K cars are actually going through at nowhere near that price (Clubsport / Ceramic Spec). I'm in no rush, Id prefer a GT3 over a GT4 anyway, but when the GT4 OPC cars start being listed at 85K-80K i'll start looking again with a view to buy around list. This is not a long way away, too many cars in the market. But if you want the car you pay your monies on what the market dictates, I just don't want it enough now to pay huge overs.
Worth noting that the drop on prices isn't just related to the GT4. All used porsches seem to have taken a hit in October. I have noticed that 991.1 GT3's have also dropped. Just that time of the year. Would think prices would stabalise come spring next year. I read this thread as its something to read, but price wise I just look on autotrader etc. Cheapest private car is 82K 7K miles and has Buckets, trade bid for this would be way way lower 75K, its not selling. OPC SOR 99K cars are actually going through at nowhere near that price (Clubsport / Ceramic Spec). I'm in no rush, Id prefer a GT3 over a GT4 anyway, but when the GT4 OPC cars start being listed at 85K-80K i'll start looking again with a view to buy around list. This is not a long way away, too many cars in the market. But if you want the car you pay your monies on what the market dictates, I just don't want it enough now to pay huge overs.
Porsche911R said:
I am sure they will go up after Geneva, but lets wait and see.
people will offload now as it's winter and you can get overs still.
they will drop a bit every month going though winter then pick up in spring as normal esp after the motor show.
So what do you know?people will offload now as it's winter and you can get overs still.
they will drop a bit every month going though winter then pick up in spring as normal esp after the motor show.
Is the 991.2gt3 going to be the last Porsche GT car to be the last N/ A engine?
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