12 GT4's for sale on PistonHeads and growing

[mdianuk]

Geez, suddenly I'm a fool because I don't share the same view on overpriced insurance that goes off the same "market value" policy as the rest. Where does it end, gap insurance, trackers, covering over the current value, wheel insurance, tyre insurance, paint insurance. Covering these just because a car is worth a lot (to some) isn't always logical, and we are talking about extremities of insurance cover here. The funny thing is most of these smaller brokers promising the world (but not proven) are probably underwritten by the same corporations anyway. Like I said though, I'll be shopping around, but if they all say "market value", there is little to separate them aside from friendly customer service and feedback of those that have claimed for a total write-off.

[ferrisbueller]

mdianuk said:

Geez, suddenly I'm a fool because I don't share the same view on overpriced insurance that goes off the same "market value" policy as the rest.

I think you need to not take it personally.

It's not the same market value - It's an agreed value. Those are two very different things which can amount to five figure numbers very quickly.

mdianuk said:

Where does it end, gap insurance, trackers, covering over the current value, wheel insurance, tyre insurance, paint insurance. Covering these just because a car is worth a lot (to some) isn't always logical, and we are talking about extremities of insurance cover here.

I think you're going off the deep end here. There's risk associated with an asset worth £100k, even moreso if it happens to be a car. The law requires insurance and it's your choice as to how you decide to handle your share of the liability. We're not talking about extremities really. £100k cars aren't that rare nowadays. Fair play if you've reached a point in life where £100k isn't a lot. I cannot imagine a world like that.

mdianuk said:

The funny thing is most of these smaller brokers promising the world (but not proven) are probably underwritten by the same corporations anyway. Like I said though, I'll be shopping around, but if they all say "market value", there is little to separate them aside from friendly customer service and feedback of those that have claimed for a total write-off.

The brokers are the gateway to the companies who do the underwriting. As middle men, the service they offer and the commission they take varies. Of the companies they work with, most are in turn specialists. To the best of my knowledge they're underwritten by different parties to the majority of the "high street" brands, though it may well all come down to several big players at the end of the day. The paperwork of those I've used suggests they're different entities. Equally, I believe they are proven.

You can either be insured, or you can be fully covered and that boils down to a personal choice. You pays your money, you makes your choice. On the one hand £100k isn't a lot but you won't pay for full insurance cover. That's your decision but I don't think it's right to say that they're all the same as some kind of statement of fact, which it isn't.

It comes down to how confident you are that nothing will ever happen to the car. Or if it does, how often could it happen. If the difference in price of the insurance is £500, then if you don't have an incident in how ever many years then you've just got to look at the potential loss and see whether the pay back is worth it.

I genuinely hope that no-one ever finds themselves in a total loss situation. If you do, and there's a discrepancy between your perceived value and your insurer's market value, then do post as to how you get on suing them (as that's what it would be, not them "fighting" you in court, though ironically you probably have some legal expenses cover you've paid for somewhere).

[av185]

ferrisbueller said:

av185 said:

Fl0pp3r said:

I could be wrong but i doubt Admiral will be offering your choice of OPC repair/glass etc...

.

They do and will confirm it.

How about agreed value?

As has been discussed many times on Porsche GT threads it appears it is still very difficult if not impossible to obtain agreed value over list price insurance on any vehicle less than 12 months old. I attempted to obtain this on my 991 GT3 from new but could not......same with GT4 and others...including via specialist insurance such as Mannings. Yes, these insurers such as Marsh etc may appear to be more switched on terms of market value over list but they will still require extensive market evidence of comparable sales of similar spec vehicles before paying out in the event of a claim. Whilst clearly the likes of Admiral etc are more mainstream the terms of the insurance are broadly identical across the market and outside an 'agreed value' policy the definition of 'market value' of a GT4 GT3 or whatever car which is fetching over list premiums is the same irrespective of insurer and premium paid.

[Porsche911R]

you either go all in and buy every thing or you don't.

I must be easy £30k better off never buying any insurance bar the legal requirement over my driving life.

people buy Trackers, GAP, paint film, PCP etc etc it's £25k on top of every car !!
If you take off the PCP rip off interest rates people still seem to be buying PPF, trackers, a detail etc etc added £4k to most cars

I have 4 cars if I add £4k to each one and then an extra £500 on each one to insure over Admiral the costs mount up ten fold.

You either live in fear and buy EVERY insurance under the sun or don't buy any, I am in the latter camp and don't even have life insurance etc.

I talk to people and they have every cover going, and life, mortgage protection, gap, water, TV, GAS insurance etc etc etc it just goes on and on.

No right and wrong on what people want to cover, live in fear and you buy the cover, or take a add hock approach like me and never buy any cover on any thing.

I have talked to Admiral many times about my car being worth more than invoice and they say they cover at market Value, well that's a better price than part ex your car or paying a 3rd party dealer it's commission !!!

I cannot see them backing out a claim, I have taken Admiral up on cases before and won, they are regulated , no one wants to pay out In a claim, but they have to, it might just take a few letters but you will get a pay out at market value, which again I state will be better than a part ex value.

So again live in fear and be forced to fit a tracker and pay £500 over the odds or don't

Don't even get me started on the risks of having a tracker on your car !! screw that !

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 11th May 09:18

[av185]

Porsche911R said:

Don't even get me started on the risks of having a tracker on your car !! screw that !

Edited by Porsche911R on Wednesday 11th May 09:18

Tracker is probably one of the biggest heavily marketed cons and rip offs considering it is so easily bypassed.....effectively useless...as confirmed by traffic Plod or any half seasoned 'professional' high end car scrote...... if anyone wants extra protection and a VISIBLE deterrent you are way better off simply fitting a £100 Disclok or equally effective and easily stored £50 Stoplock Pro.

[Fokker]

Porsche911R said:

I have asked 3 or 4 times and they pay out market value ! and as you have asked they have paid out market value for cars.

People personal experiences should be taken into account thoough. On the FB page, you'll all remember the white GT4 that was written off and insured through Admiral.
I'm pretty sure they didn't pay over market value and he was very lucky to get another slot pretty immediately for a list price car or he'd have been well out of pocket.

I avery much one of those people who shy's away from over insuring myself. I hate additional insurance. I wear a Submariner but its not insured as its on my wrist most of the time etc etc.
I do however feel that insuring a 100k car with a mediocre, 'Vauxhall Vectra' if you will insurance company is asking for trouble!

I hit ice in my e92 M3 in 2013, hit a tree head on and wrote the car off. Admiral were an absolute st to deal with. It had a 'comp pack' on it with about 7k worth of extras but they would'nt pay out like for like. They just looked at the market and took the average. I paid £34500 for the car through a BMW dealer and 3 months later I got 30k for it through Admiral.

The big difference with the GT4 though is that its worth MORE than list price as we well know. Companies like Admiral don't recognise your car being worth more than list.
Yes they will say 'we will pay you market value' and that means market value up to list.

If you simply don't care about losing £25k then go with Admiral of course but if the st was to hit the fan you would almost certainly be out of pocket by many thousands of pounds.

So as to not take a chance, call them and go through to claims debt (not sales dept) and speak to the 'Claims Manager'. Ask her as i did, do you ever pay over list on claims for cars that have risen in value beyond their list price?
The answer will be very muddy! She said to me that she can count on one hand the amount of times they have done that.

You've been warned.

[ags11]

Guys, just be happy we have a great car that doesn't depreciate! In the miniscule chance that something happens, list isn't a terribly bad situation if you come away unscathed!
There must be a medical term for such paranoia?
Sell it & take the money or leave it in a triple locked garage if it's all too much!!

[av185]

Fokker said:

People personal experiences should be taken into account thoough. On the FB page, you'll all remember the white GT4 that was written off and insured through Admiral.
I'm pretty sure they didn't pay over market value and he was very lucky to get another slot pretty immediately for a list price car or he'd have been well out of pocket.



I hit ice in my e92 M3 in 2013, hit a tree head on and wrote the car off. Admiral were an absolute st to deal with. It had a 'comp pack' on it with about 7k worth of extras but they would'nt pay out like for like. They just looked at the market and took the average. I paid £34500 for the car through a BMW dealer and 3 months later I got 30k for it through Admiral.

Re the white GT4 it is likely he received otr list price BECAUSE he was offered a new build slot car at list.

Re the M3, did you specify to Admiral when taking out the policy that the car had comp pack and ALL the costed factory fit options on the car? Remember also that you will have paid top book retail price for the car at the BMW dealers some 3 months before and the car could well have lost £1k a month in depreciation.

[ferrisbueller]

Porsche911R said:

you either go all in and buy every thing or you don't.

I understand the point you're trying to make but it's no a binary thing. You pick and choose the level of risk you wish to mitigate in all aspects of life.

[Mustangs]

av185 said:

Re the white GT4 it is likely he received otr list price BECAUSE he was offered a new build slot car at list.

Re the M3, did you specify to Admiral when taking out the policy that the car had comp pack and ALL the costed factory fit options on the car? Remember also that you will have paid top book retail price for the car at the BMW dealers some 3 months before and the car could well have lost £1k a month in depreciation.

He received 107k for that white car but the build cost was 82. I know this from the actual owner who got a cancelled order as a sign of good will although its not totally the actual spec he wanted but pretty close. All in all with nobody hurt he had a result

[Fokker]

Mustangs said:

He received 107k for that white car but the build cost was 82. I know this from the actual owner who got a cancelled order as a sign of good will although its not totally the actual spec he wanted but pretty close. All in all with nobody hurt he had a result

Well that's just binned everything I said then!!

Go with Admiral in that case and enjoy the car!

[Porsche911R]

ferrisbueller said:

I understand the point you're trying to make but it's no a binary thing. You pick and choose the level of risk you wish to mitigate in all aspects of life.

Risk or Fear, as I said no right and wrong if you live in fear and want to pay to cover every thing that's a choice people make.

but you tend to find the same people who have more cover have cover on boilers, life, Gap etc etc it £100's a month. more so women I find !

PPI was the biggest balls up, 95% people wanted PPI but then wanted their money back one the miss-selling happened , BUT MOST people wanted PPI !!!
I feel sorry for the banks paying out refunds to people who wanted it !!! and all the scam companies still making money of the back of it.

I'll give Admiral another call today and get some thing in writing about market value above list, but I have an email from them about this already.

[Cheburator mk2]

av185 said:

Re the white GT4 it is likely he received otr list price BECAUSE he was offered a new build slot car at list.

Re the M3, did you specify to Admiral when taking out the policy that the car had comp pack and ALL the costed factory fit options on the car? Remember also that you will have paid top book retail price for the car at the BMW dealers some 3 months before and the car could well have lost £1k a month in depreciation.

I am with the M3 owner here... Had an E61 M5 which was stolen. Paid £33k for an AUC with 31k miles on the clock, then 2yrs later Admiral offered £20k. Mine was loaded, and believe you me, when that E61 M5 was loaded, it had everything - full leather - £5k alone, TV etc. I think the only missing thing was the tow bar and double glazing. £86k original invoice. Car was on 50k miles when stollen, which instantly made it more attractive due to the doubling in cost for the BMW Insured Warranty once the car is over 60k mile.

I understand that 2yrs of depreciation had to be factored in. However, as an insurer, Admiral is supposed to offer a settlement which puts you in the same/comparable car. The £20k initial offer was nowhere near enough to get me into an AUC with 50k and all the extras ticked. It took me 2 months of to-and-fro, getting the FO involved for the pricks at Admiral towers to pay up to £23k, which was still not enough. By then I had lost the will and just cashed in the cheque.

Funnily enough, I could have insured my GT3 K400 with them for £600, which was 30% cheaper than Locton, but why would I want to go through the rigmarole, especially on a car, which has doubled in value? All the mods are declared, Locton are happy and I have an agreed value of £75k. £300 was a small price for piece of mind that I don't have to deal with dheads ever again...

[mdianuk]

Mustangs said:

He received 107k for that white car but the build cost was 82. I know this from the actual owner who got a cancelled order as a sign of good will although its not totally the actual spec he wanted but pretty close. All in all with nobody hurt he had a result

Yep, was just going to say that I'm pretty sure he got more than list back, but interestingly he wouldn't comment on the experience and has swiftly moved to another provider; not sure why, obviously entirely up to him not to say and no doubt just wants to put it all behind him.

Worth noting that some have mentioned Admiral won't pay over list, but when you enter a value, it doesn't actually say list, but "market value", so if in doubt, I guess you could hike that to £100k!

[Porsche911R]

on a car which goes down in price and over 3 years old is that what gap insurance is for ?

Admiral are buggers on older cars over 3 years old, but what's market value on a GT4 ? they can pick the cheapest car (93k atm) for sale and that would be ok with me.

Not sure how they could pay less than the cheapest car for sale atm !

Rules on most cars over 3 years change big time hence there are some issues if you own a 1972 S or some thing.

[mdianuk]

Porsche911R said:

on a car which goes down in price and over 3 years old is that what gap insurance is for ?

Admiral are buggers on older cars over 3 years old, but what's market value on a GT4 ? they can pick the cheapest car (93k atm) for sale and that would be ok with me.

Not sure how they could pay less than the cheapest car for sale atm !

Rules on most cars over 3 years change big time hence there are some issues if you own a 1972 S or some thing.

I agree with you entirely, but I guess some like the reassurance (maybe justified, no idea) of a fixed value return should the worse happen, but I'm yet to hear of an example of this happening and the insurer not trying to wriggle still.

GAP in general is designed to bridge the gap between market value paid by the insurer (within the first 3 years usually), and the original invoice value, which I feel is worth having in instances where the car is likely to lose value over 3 years (most cars). It means if you buy a car for £40k (new, as an example), but after 2 1/2 years it is worth £20k, the insurer will only pay that, but GAP will cover you (subject to max balance) up to £40k. I see that product as a nice way of getting back into a newer version of your own car, which is what 'Invoice+' is. However, for cars such as this, I suppose 'Replacement Car+' would do the trick and cover any shortfall, but that is just another company to argue with surely.

[ferrisbueller]

av185 said:

ferrisbueller said:

av185 said:

Fl0pp3r said:

I could be wrong but i doubt Admiral will be offering your choice of OPC repair/glass etc...

.

They do and will confirm it.

How about agreed value?

As has been discussed many times on Porsche GT threads it appears it is still very difficult if not impossible to obtain agreed value over list price insurance on any vehicle less than 12 months old. I attempted to obtain this on my 991 GT3 from new but could not......same with GT4 and others...including via specialist insurance such as Mannings. Yes, these insurers such as Marsh etc may appear to be more switched on terms of market value over list but they will still require extensive market evidence of comparable sales of similar spec vehicles before paying out in the event of a claim. Whilst clearly the likes of Admiral etc are more mainstream the terms of the insurance are broadly identical across the market and outside an 'agreed value' policy the definition of 'market value' of a GT4 GT3 or whatever car which is fetching over list premiums is the same irrespective of insurer and premium paid.

I never tried to do it as I've never had a car less than 12 months old. However, my broker tells me he has access to policies which would cover that set of circumstances for cars of that ilk.

[mdianuk]

ferrisbueller said:

I never tried to do it as I've never had a car less than 12 months old. However, my broker tells me he has access to policies which would cover that set of circumstances for cars of that ilk.

I'm sending out a few initial emails to the key insurers recommended. So far two have come back that they don't offer fixed value, only market, despite what I've been told, so it seems so far they are all reading from the same hymn sheet.

[ferrisbueller]

mdianuk said:

ferrisbueller said:

I never tried to do it as I've never had a car less than 12 months old. However, my broker tells me he has access to policies which would cover that set of circumstances for cars of that ilk.

I'm sending out a few initial emails to the key insurers recommended. So far two have come back that they don't offer fixed value, only market, despite what I've been told, so it seems so far they are all reading from the same hymn sheet.

I'm not arguing, I'm just repeating what I've been told.

[av185]

Cheburator mk2 said:

I am with the M3 owner here... Had an E61 M5 which was stolen. Paid £33k for an AUC with 31k miles on the clock, then 2yrs later Admiral offered £20k. Mine was loaded, and believe you me, when that E61 M5 was loaded, it had everything - full leather - £5k alone, TV etc. I think the only missing thing was the tow bar and double glazing. £86k original invoice. Car was on 50k miles when stollen, which instantly made it more attractive due to the doubling in cost for the BMW Insured Warranty once the car is over 60k mile.

I understand that 2yrs of depreciation had to be factored in. However, as an insurer, Admiral is supposed to offer a settlement which puts you in the same/comparable car. The £20k initial offer was nowhere near enough to get me into an AUC with 50k and all the extras ticked. It took me 2 months of to-and-fro, getting the FO involved for the pricks at Admiral towers to pay up to £23k, which was still not enough. By then I had lost the will and just cashed in the cheque.

I can sympathise to a degree but you will know M5s are and always have been heavy depreciators due to over pricing when new and over supply.....trade on a 3 year old top spec lowish mileage car currently being c £30k showing a possible and decidedly horrific averaged c £17k annual depreciation so tbh for your car to shed effectively £10k over 2 yrs and 17k miles was about right.

Also, unless you specifically itemised the factory fitted options and costings on your car when you took out the insurance, the insurers are under no obligation to pay out an increased value over a more basic spec car in the event of a claim.....and worst case scenario non declaration can and has invalidated claims.