Cayman R Chat

Author
Discussion

n17ves

591 posts

177 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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olly22n said:
n17ves said:
olly22n said:
What are the suspension differences between an S and an R?

Is it just dampers or does it go deeper than that?
Dampers/springs, ARB's, LSD and a revised geo. The different wheels are also a contributing factor.
From what i have read;
Diff doesn't seem to work
Wheels are an option

So basically springs/dampers, ARBs and a Geo?

The arms/track are all the same?
Diff does work, no idea where you have got that from! I wouldn't touch a Cayman without one personally.
The Spyder wheels (lightest wheels) were standard on the R.

So probably about £8k worth of kit there (wheels are expensive) if you wanted to retro fit to an S.

lemmingjames

7,434 posts

203 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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Sunnypatel said:
But you love the Cayman S, and the R is better to drive, you also love PASM and PDK where most drivers hate both in a driving machine and prefer more basic tech.

The R you had must have been a cat D stter with worn shocks, cracked p zero and a poor geo. :-) it is after all just a Cayman which you love.

Porsche geo on the R is better reducing under steer, the wheels have a wider track aiding turn in and were at the time the lightest they made, it has a real diff, the passive are set betweem the PASM settings, the ARB are stiffer helping body roll and giving the car more rear bias. Then of course it shed a bit of weight with GT3 alloy doors and a few other items, and last a bespoke exhaust which was a larger dia and sounds better than an S item and flows more air.

Every thing you love about your Cayman S and more. So you need to revisit the R .

How you can say an R is rubbish while loving an S proves your R was a snotter.

What tyres has your S got on ? Because thats the only thing I can think of really which would make he R feel so bad over your S.

I pointed out the reviews not for drifting , but to point out things like it has the sweetest steering, and total handling perfection. Etc etc.

The 200 selling point was in the rescission in 2011 where car sales were at their lowest in 10 years ! .

Edited by Sunnypatel on Thursday 12th January 09:19
2 posts only based on Cayman R love - hi David wavey did your other account get banned or something?

boxsey

3,574 posts

209 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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olly22n said:
I'm not poo-pooing the R. I like the concept and cannot afford one, and I am keen to sharpen up my .1 S.
Olly, I and others have a set of Oz Ultraleggera HLTs for track use. I would say weight wise they are similar to the R's spyder wheels but should cost you less than £2K (a set of on new spyders I believe are around £5K). The Oz wheel offsets also widen the track (about 10 mm per axle IIRC). We get the 19s because you can get super sports or cup 2s to fit. I had considered an 18 inch wheel for track use but couldn't find super sports in the correct sizes to fit the 18s. HTH.

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
quotequote all
olly22n said:
boxsey said:
olly22n said:
I'm not poo-pooing the R. I like the concept and cannot afford one, and I am keen to sharpen up my .1 S.
Olly, I and others have a set of Oz Ultraleggera HLTs for track use. I would say weight wise they are similar to the R's spyder wheels but should cost you less than £2K (a set of on new spyders I believe are around £5K). The Oz wheel offsets also widen the track (about 10 mm per axle IIRC). We get the 19s because you can get super sports or cup 2s to fit. I had considered an 18 inch wheel for track use but couldn't find super sports in the correct sizes to fit the 18s. HTH.
I really fancy a set of enkeis, and would prefer 17/18 inch, the roads where I am demand *some* sidewall.

What is the weight on the spyder wheels?
I think you mean of smile

They can be found here :

http://www.944racing.de/wheelweights.php

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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lemmingjames said:
2 posts only based on Cayman R love - hi David wavey did your other account get banned or something?
biggrin



The Noise

40 posts

140 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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Guys, handbags down, deep breath and let's hug it out!

Each to their own.

I am a 'work and lurk' PHer but I thought I would throw my hat into the ring.

I have both a 987.2 S and a R. I bought the R with the intention of moving on the S as I didn't think I would need both. But I have decided to keep both. The S is now a project car after running it standard along side the R for a while.

This is just my opinion, but the R is very special. The R is not hugely different from the S, but it is more than the sum of the parts. Both are very capable cars and handle and go very well but I do find that the R is more focused as a road car and that bit more involving. Both cars are very similar in spec: manual, short shift, PSE, Spyders, etc. The main technical differences are that the R has PCCB, buckets, LSD, Sport design wheel. These things all make a difference as I can't say the cars are like for like. The weight saved by the PCCB must make a big difference and also the seats and wheel are the most important non-mechanical things when it comes to driving experience as these (and the gear change) are the points of contact for the driver. The Wheel has a smaller dia. so changing the the steering experience, the seats in the R are buckets as opposed to the S which had sports seats. They both run the same Super Sport tyres and pressures. As road cars both will keep up with each other, real world fast road driving they cannot be separated, but the R does go about things with more focus and urgency than the S. I find the suspension on the R firmer but perfect for the road. Better than the standard S suspension for my type of driving. I don't use either as a daily or A to B driving. Like I said, when both cars are standard, there really isn't that much between them, but I do find the R sweeter in every department. So, for me, as a road car the R is outstanding. Not sure that there is much out there better for an accessible pure road drive. The S too, but different. The problem is that for the track they are both not quite good enough as obviously they are intended for road use. I have tracked both in standard form and the gap between the R and S widen. The LSD on the R doesn't do much on road as I rarely find myself able to get to speeds where it can make a substantial difference, however on track it does work. Maybe not the best LSD ever, but certainly for fast track work it is effective. It's a shame that you cannot dial much in the way of geo changes and setup as there is very little room for adjustment. So, for me, both very balanced and good enough for track. Not the fastest cars, but great fun and the 987 has so much more potential as a performance car. The R gets the closest, but there is room for improvement. The chassis can easily handle more power...

Now, with all this in mind I decided to use the S to make it into an even more focused drive. I don't feel compelled to touch the R as it is perfect for its intended use. On the S I have changed the manifolds, decat secondary cats, 200 cells primary, full sports exhaust, ipd competition plenum, 82mm throttle body, de snork, BMC filters, GT3 MC, Porsche Recaro fixed back buckets, Brembo BBK, KW V3, Momo wheel, harnesses, etc. A very light custom remap to about 340-350hp, a little more than the R. There are probably other things on top of this I can't recall. The S is now set up for a slight bias to track work, but also fast road. The R now can't keep up. However, it is still the better and more enjoyable road car. The S is now excellent on track. Much better than the R for this application.

My feelings are that the R can offer some fun on track, but it's intended use is on the road and it is there that the R really excels. Just enough power that you can easily exploit 100% of the engine, experience 10/10ths of the balance and chassis without putting yourself and others at risk. This is what I find enjoyable about the R. I will probably do some of the mods I have done on the S to the R, but nothing major as with all mods there is usually a compromise, especially on setup and engine map. I will not change the suspension, factory map and geo or brakes. But it's only really to hone the car as opposed to change it outright.

Horses for courses and all that...

Happy New Year to All.

squirdan

1,082 posts

146 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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some good recent replies

I have found 2 white manual cars with the right bits, one 12k, the other 25k miles

viewings imminent - cant wait

boxsey

3,574 posts

209 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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Slippydiff said:
I think you mean of smile

They can be found here :

http://www.944racing.de/wheelweights.php
Thanks Slippy. smile

For reference, the Oz Racing site suggests weights of about 9.70 Kg and 10.76 Kg for the equivalent Ultraleggera wheels. I can only say 'about' because they don't include the 8.5 x 19 or 10 x 19 in their table so have had to estimate based on the weights they provide for 8, 9 and 11 inch wheels.

lemmingjames

7,434 posts

203 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
lemmingjames said:
2 posts only based on Cayman R love - hi David wavey did your other account get banned or something?
biggrin
What did happen to David/Porsche911r or whatever he has called himself?

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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lemmingjames said:
What did happen to David/Porsche911r or whatever he has called himself?
Mr Semen and GTFlaw ?



bcr5784

7,102 posts

144 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
Think you might have a bit of difficulty pursuading R owners to do that. Any R owner gone 17?

Slippydiff

14,742 posts

222 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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anonymous said:
[redacted]
nono

Evereewun nose bruvv, bigga is betta innit :



and lowa and wida is beta stil thumbup

Wee al no U is dreemin of yoor Crocman lukin like this Gez ! ! (Wud dubble up a sno plow on those artick trips u doo al the tiim 2 innit)





Edited by Slippydiff on Thursday 12th January 19:14

lukeyboyuk

45 posts

93 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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Bought my Cayman R end of last year and have loved every day of it...until today. I use it a daily drive to the station as well as a weekend car and the snow has been an eye opening as to how bad it can be! If you're going to use it as a daily, consider a backup for the bad weather smile

fridaypassion

8,505 posts

227 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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Sunnypatel said:
Owned and driven both 50x the miles you have I would guess.
You are very new to Porkers and don't even know the specs of said cars it seems.
Buying a well know car means nothing If it had P zero's on it ! And your S has Goodyears as an example ! They would not feel the same.

All the options don't mean anything or have anything to do with how it drives so a moot comment.

An S and an R are so close to drive (as they are the same car) you cannot call one rubbish and love the other ! I would even say, blindfold a non car person and get them to drive both they would not know which they were in.

You state an R is a bad steer but the S is great , ! It does not add up bar a poor tyre choice.

The points you bring up about poor steering and it rides too hard just don't add up.
There must be 20 odd owners of R's here who cannot work out what you are talking about !

I find PASM on the gen 2 either 2 soft and floaty off and harder and more bouncy than the R when turned on, to a point on is unusable, The S also understeeed far more, and Porsche added more camber to the R and gave it a stiffer rear ARB, that's all they did. Bar that the cars are the same unit with free buckets, Spyder wheels and a diff so good value.

I would really revisit one of Porsche best driving cars with a like for like tyre to your S, because the R is a better drive all be it just as the S is so good anyway.
Am am right though and secretly you know it. I'm also not exactly that new to porkers check profile. I have more experience with a broader range of cars than most. I can assure you I have in depth knowledge of the cars specs its me fecking day job! If you think PCCBs dont make any difference I think you should just leave. biggrin

Boxsey I didnt buy the R to make money it was bought as my own car in good faith from a member on here mainly due to all the fawning on this ruddy thread! I was very lucky in being able to get my old car back but I was almost robbed of a very unique and brilliant car due to the hype at the time about the R which I think has cooled a bit now looking at how long one or two of them have been sat around.

Financially I've made a totally stupid decision my S will depreciate at some point although not at the moment where as the R never would have done but I use my car daily and I wasnt willing to put up with something that was not as good to drive as my last car. If I'd swapped it for an R8 or Aston the same thing might have happened. Lifes too short for putting up with car A if Car B is within your reach.

I do confess I do like to wind you R boys up it is good fun and it is meant as tongue in cheek of course. Made even sweeter as ultimately when you are thumping down a lane getting your fillings rattled out you'll be thinking that FP he might be a t*$t but he is right biggrin But you can sit back and feel smug in 5 year time when your car is worth 50k and mine is a straight swap for a new fiesta. As long as you dont drive it, its got all the options and its white of course biggrin

lemmingjames

7,434 posts

203 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
quotequote all
Slippydiff said:
Mr Semen and GTFlaw ?
Its like wheres wally now or what old.logins has he got that he is now.trying to remember

boxsey

3,574 posts

209 months

Thursday 12th January 2017
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fridaypassion said:
Boxsey I didnt buy the R to make money it was bought as my own car in good faith from a member on here mainly due to all the fawning on this ruddy thread! I was very lucky in being able to get my old car back but I was almost robbed of a very unique and brilliant car due to the hype at the time about the R which I think has cooled a bit now looking at how long one or two of them have been sat around.

I've been in that one too (when Darren owned it)... sorry but it's not as good as an R in my opinion, it just felt too soft and floaty for me. Brakes were good though!

Not stalking you, honest! Well, maybe just your caymans. biggrin

s3 akr

262 posts

152 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
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Checking OPC network today shows only 2 PCR's, both with chairs, both PDK, both advertised at strong pricing - always good to see although it doesn't mean they'll sell at these prices!

andy.yeow

146 posts

100 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
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s3 akr said:
Checking OPC network today shows only 2 PCR's, both with chairs, both PDK, both advertised at strong pricing - always good to see although it doesn't mean they'll sell at these prices!
Had an interesting chat with OPC about selling mine, they will actually pay more when it's track season for these as they up the price, sounds like they expect them to gain again this season 😀

s3 akr

262 posts

152 months

Sunday 15th January 2017
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If I can own mine for a couple more years without too much loss in value, then I'll be happy in terms of the financials. I want to make much more use of it next year hopefully with a visit to Le Mans, but definitely with a couple of decent road trips up into and around Wales (working from South to North).

squirdan

1,082 posts

146 months

Wednesday 18th January 2017
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so

physically looked at 4 cars yesterday; passenger in 1 and drove 1

what I liked:

- the size. Its UK roads perfect. JZM have a 991 GT3 RS in their showroom parked next to (as in 2 inches) from a new DB11. both are bloated monsters, basically the same size as each other

- the engine noise. OK not GT3 quality but still a lovely howl above 5k revs.

- the seats. those carbon buckets are the business and 2 people told me more comfortable than the Cayman GT4 ones. Fitted me perfectly

- the manual change. MX5 a like. with my arm on the armrest I could pretty much change gear just with wrist action ooh err. rifle bolt. (short shift fitted). A dying breed

- the overall package just feels right to me. In no particular order I've had 996.2 GT3, 72 and 73 2.7 classics, 968CS, M3, RS4, Maser 4200, CLK55, 996 C4S, Golf R.
The Cayman R is just so much more than the sum of its on paper spec.

- only went round a few roundabouts with the sport button on allowing 10pc slip which was easy enough this time of year but evident the handling balance is so sweet

negatives?

- Is it mega fast..no. but come on 330bhp and 1250 kg is enough on the road isnt it? felt fast enough to me on dual carriageways when one of those pesky Seat Leon orange trimmed things loomed large. I remember Chris Harris once saying 10 secs 0-100 is the mark of a properly fast car..think the CR is thereabouts

- the looks ...TBH the 981 in my view looks better but the black details on the R do lift it visually and make it look a bit special. In JZMs showroom surrounded by a lot of more expensive cars it still looks good imho

Value?

i stick to my original observations that theres a whiff of the 3.2 CS or the 968 CS here. High end Pork is dragging up cheaper stuff. Cayman R I think looks decent value RELATIVE. But struck by the fact JZM have sold the Golf Clubsport they had advertised for £45k... So maybe when a limited edition (albeit pretty special) Golf sells for the same money, a CR is absolute value as well

finally as we all know the self deception and obsession of the car nut can be dangerous. So before I dealt I hopped back on the train and had a good think about what else could be bought for the same money that would be a fun, useable car, that could handle some track action, that is built and engineered to high standards, that will drive to Spa in the summer in reasonable comfort, as well as hoon, probably not depreciate, and also not make me look like a nobber driving it. I couldnt think of anything. BMW 1M maybe but already quite £££ and brakes made of cheese.