new Cayman - 981 or 718?

[JasonSteel]

i've been reading some of the loooooong threads on the new 718 with interest. i'm looking to get a Cayman but can't decide whether to buy now and go for the F6, or wait a while longer and get the updated 718.

i should say from the outset i'm no racer. i just an average guy, finally in a position to treat myself to a decent car and i've settled on the Cayman for a number of reasons.

one of the things (actually, the only thing) that makes me want the 981 is the engine. partly for the different response but mainly for the noise. i'm still lamenting the lack of noise in F1 and for me noise is part of the drama of driving a sports car. otherwise it's a bit like watching an action movie on a huge screen and listening through a phone speaker.

however i also have an eye on resale value, so i'd like ask some advice:

1. resale value - if i buy new, in 3 years time is a 981 likely to be worth less/more/roughly the same as a 718?

2. sports exhaust - PSE has only just appeared on the list of options for the Boxster, so does that mean the reviews that are out were on cars without this option? will PSE improve noise?

3. any school boy errors i should be avoiding?

[Porsche911R]

new car will feel nicer to drive have better steering feel, be faster and have more torque, all you are giving up is the flat 6 sound.
New car will also have the much much better PCM unit over the stter the old cars have.

Not being that much of a 981 fan, I would go 987.2 or 718, I did not gel with the 981 base cars at all esp the 1st gen eps.

both will drop 40% of base value plus options after 3 years.

[pete.g]

To get a 981 now you'll have to either find one that a dealer has ordered for stock or buy used/demo.

My responses to your questions would be:

1. The 981 GTS might hold its value, I think the 981 S will drop more than a 718 S, while the 981 2.7 may hold its own against the 718 (2.0). However, note the tentative conditional language and see my response to 3.

2. Sports exhaust will be louder - whether the noise is more pleasing is another question.

3. Errors would include taking advice from eejits online . . .

[JasonSteel]

Porsche911R said:

Not being that much of a 981 fan, I would go 987.2 or 718, I did not gel with the 981 base cars at all esp the 1st gen eps.

i'm not much of a 987 fan (looks wise), so definitely a 981 or 718 choice.

Porsche911R said:

both will drop 40% of base value plus options after 3 years.

that would put the price of a 3yr old Cayman that cost around £55k @ £33k.

but if i look at the price of actual 3 year old caymans with PASM, PSE and PDK with decent mileage, prices consistently seem to be starting at well over £40k.

pete.g said:

To get a 981 now you'll have to either find one that a dealer has ordered for stock or buy used/demo.

hmmm, really? but the 718 Cayman isn't out yet so shouldn't that mean i'm still in time for the 981? i had a couple of deals i was looking at and just assumed they were for the 981... will have to check.

pete.g said:

I think the 981 S will drop more than a 718 S

that's what i'm worried about. however i did wonder if the 981, being a F6 would hold its own against the 718 come sale time. i guess only time will tell.

pete.g said:

2. Sports exhaust will be louder - whether the noise is more pleasing is another question.

hopefully some showrooms will have one in any time now to try.

pete.g said:

3. Errors would include taking advice from eejits online . . .

can't be much worse than my own toing and froing...

[bcr5784]

You said 718 and 981 and no mention of S. Is that what you meant.
I'd hang fire on a non S 718. There are plenty of reviews out there on the 718S but almost non on the base car. The only review on the base car I've seen said DONT BUY. That's just one guy's view, of course, but I'd wait until a consensus emerges - there are good technical reasons why the S will be have a nicer engine than the base car.

Better still wait until the 718 Boxster comes out and try one. Hopefully you can then judge whether you like the engine and (if you can find one with PSE) PSE is to your taste.

[JasonSteel]

bcr5784 said:

You said 718 and 981 and no mention of S. Is that what you meant.
I'd hang fire on a non S 718. There are plenty of reviews out there on the 718S but almost non on the base car. The only review on the base car I've seen said DONT BUY. That's just one guy's view, of course, but I'd wait until a consensus emerges - there are good technical reasons why the S will be have a nicer engine than the base car.

Better still wait until the 718 Boxster comes out and try one. Hopefully you can then judge whether you like the engine and (if you can find one with PSE) PSE is to your taste.

sorry. yes, i did mean S - forgot to specify.

i wonder how long it will be before the 718 Cayman S is available though?

also i'll be leasing the car through a non Porsche dealer, so if i wait Cayman S (718) and then prefer the 981 S, will i still be able to order the old version? i think no because as soon as the 718 Boxster came out it was no longer possible to order the 981.

[DJMC]

Having owned a 981 Cayman for 5 months, the best thing about it for me IS the noise when I get the opportunity to open it up.

But... from a daily driver perspective (mine is a DD) it's the lack of a turbo which makes it a pleasure to drive compared to my 2012 TTS (straight 4 turbo).

The 718 may be better in this regard, the S perhaps more so with variable vane tech, but for now I'm glad I have a NA 6 cylinder car with the iconic engine layout.

By the way... PSE in the courtesy 2016 981 2.7 Boxster I had last week was a droning pain in the ass at constant speed (hood up). The Cayman's interior has more engine noise (allegedly) so if you like the ability to cruise without an intrusive drone, don't get PSE.
My 2.7 is loud enough when it gets going for me to be perfectly happy with it. But try both and see which you prefer.

[Dr S]

I am pretty sure the journo cars were fully specced and included PSE. That was the case with the 991.2 and I don't think Porsche will let pass any opportunity to convince journos and potential customers that the engine sounds "pretty good for what it is".

If it is sound you are after then I would not settle for a F4. The 981 is already a car with fantastic handling. Yes, the 718 is even better and faster - but how much will this matter in the real world for you?

You can always get a new 718 but the 981 will be gone.

As a caveat: With the change to forced induction I do realise that I start growing a beard...

[wellzee]

JasonSteel said:

sorry. yes, i did mean S - forgot to specify.

i wonder how long it will be before the 718 Cayman S is available though?

also i'll be leasing the car through a non Porsche dealer, so if i wait Cayman S (718) and then prefer the 981 S, will i still be able to order the old version? i think no because as soon as the 718 Boxster came out it was no longer possible to order the 981.

You are correct, as far as I'm aware the final 981 Cayman's are coming off the line at the moment - my GTS (which was the last build available at my OPC) rolled off the line on the 8th April and should be here in 2 weeks. As mentioned above your only bet for a new 981 is to find a dealer who has ordered one for stock - but the spec will now be locked so you'll have to take whatever they've ordered.

[bcr5784]

Dr S said:

I am pretty sure the journo cars were fully specced and included PSE. That was the case with the 991.2 and I don't think Porsche will let pass any opportunity to convince journos and potential customers that the engine sounds "pretty good for what it is".

Certainly the Road and Track and Car and Driver cars had PSE as you can see from the photos. That said turbos always tend to muffle exhaust noise, and to get round it in "Sport" on lift off the wastegate is opened to get pops and crackles (though that detracts from performance - the turbo slows down - so in Sport + the wastegate is left closed). So perhaps "Sport" should be christened "un-Sport" or fahrt (in German of course)

Personally found PSE ON on the 991.2 made little difference, but I only tried it briefly.

[DJMC]

bcr5784 said:

Certainly the Road and Track and Car and Driver cars had PSE as you can see from the photos. That said turbos always tend to muffle exhaust noise, and to get round it in "Sport" on lift off the wastegate is opened to get pops and crackles (though that detracts from performance - the turbo slows down - so in Sport + the wastegate is left closed). So perhaps "Sport" should be christened "un-Sport" or fahrt (in German of course)

Personally found PSE ON on the 991.2 made little difference, but I only tried it briefly.

PSE in the 981 Boxster last week made no difference whether on or off when cruising. It droned between 1600 - 3000 RPM at a steady speed. Away from the lights with PSE on and foot down it sounded raucous and fun (if you're feeling like a kid) but that's maybe 1% of driving time whereas, for me, the droning would be for 70-80% of my driving time. Intrusive.

[JasonSteel]

interesting comments guys - keep em coming...

honestly though, i'm just getting more and more confused about which way to go. i've just spoken to Porsche and you're right, i can't order a new 981 any more, and the first 718s (Cayman) won't be available until the end of the year(ish).

i've booked in a test drive of the Boxster S, which should give me a good idea of what the new Cayman will be like but in my head i could already see myself driving around in the Cayman this summer, and i really didn't expect the wait for the new version would be so long.

i think i've decided not to go for a new 981 at this stage, as i'll be selling in 3 years time and it's likely that it would be worth less than a 3 year old 718 and i can't justify the difference purely on the basis of an exhaust note (which is what it boils down to for me). also, the reports of the droning are putting me off PSE altogether and i'm beginning to understand that it may well get old pretty quickly.

so now i either wait til the end of the year for the new version, or i get a used 981 for a year or so and then 'upgrade' to the 718 or just keep the 981.

[Gorsh]

DJMC said:

PSE in the 981 Boxster last week made no difference whether on or off when cruising. It droned between 1600 - 3000 RPM at a steady speed. Away from the lights with PSE on and foot down it sounded raucous and fun (if you're feeling like a kid) but that's maybe 1% of driving time whereas, for me, the droning would be for 70-80% of my driving time. Intrusive.

That's interesting, I test drove a 981 Boxster S with PSE over a year before I bought my BGTS and had the same experience. Almost to a man (or woman!) all forum responses were in favour of PSE which confused me a little. When I ordered my car I hadn't test drove one as they were all pretty much sold to order, I was reassured the PSE on the GTS cars was different and drone wasn't an issue so I took a chance on the basis that even if it did drone cruising at a constant speed was rare with leisure only use. But I needn't have worried as the PSE is absolutely brilliant, great sound even when off and when revved with it on it's definitely WOW! No drone with it off either so motorway cruising is OK - the car isn't a quiet cruiser anyway with big tyres and the engine right behind the seat but the exhaust is fine.

[Heathrow]

I wouldn't be concerned about the PSE droning on mild throttle openings. it's really not an issue with the 981 Cayman. You need to be sure that you really want the extra volume though.. Beyond 5k rpm it is really quite loud, and I wouldn't say the exhaust with PSE off is quiet or lacking in either volume or aural appeal. In hindsight I wouldn't feel I was missing out if I hadn't spec'd it, but friends who have driven the car think PSE is amazing. So, in summary, it really is down to personal preference.

BTW I've busted the noise limits at Bedford Autodrome with PSE on, and it is borderline at some other circuits too, if trackdays are a factor.

[n4aat]

PSE on and off is like night and day for me. And no droning. Off sounds really quite dull. Great for motorway driving and around town. It's like going from 3/10ths to 9/10ths when you turn it on. However, many have said there is no real discernible difference. What a shame.

[Jonny08]

n4aat said:

PSE on and off is like night and day for me. And no droning. Off sounds really quite dull. Great for motorway driving and around town. It's like going from 3/10ths to 9/10ths when you turn it on. However, many have said there is no real discernible difference. What a shame.

I've never actually driven a 981 Boxster or Cayman without PSE, and to be honest I assumed that droning behind me on the motorway was more the engine than the PSE. So thought it would have been there regardless of the PSE option. But meh, I turn the music up

For me PSE is a must, I change gears like I'm playing a musical instrument just to hear the theatrics of the car, the warmer it gets the better! They've just installed new traffic lights on a roundabout by me, which forces me to now stop under an underpass. Pulling off makes me smile like a child every time!

Back to your point regarding considering 981 Vs 718 Cayman. Lets face it, if you want a Cayman right now for the summer, then it'll be a used 981 or you maybe lucky and find a car that an OPC has ordered for stock. Your point regarding if you get a 981 now it will be worth less that a 718 in 3 years time - you are right, but it's all relative. A 981 may only be worth £30K in 3 years time, where a 718 may be worth £40K. But you'd probably pay £10K less for the 981 compared to if you wait for a 718 in the first place. So your net loss, would probably actually be about the same. But it's all crystal ball stuff

Honestly, if you want a Cayman for the summer, a 981 is your only option and you will not regret it, in my opinion. Ask your OPC for a test drive in a 981 Cayman, I'm sure you'll be sold

[Gorsh]

Jonny08 said:

Honestly, if you want a Cayman for the summer, a 981 is your only option and you will not regret it, in my opinion. Ask your OPC for a test drive in a 981 Cayman, I'm sure you'll be sold

Nah! A Boxster for me every time (the 981 mind not the four pot) - the roof is so well fitted and insulated it's just like a coupe with it up, and the pleasure of open top motoring when the weather allows is fantastic, gives you almost two cars in one!

[DJMC]

Gorsh said:

Nah! A Boxster for me every time (the 981 mind not the four pot) - the roof is so well fitted and insulated it's just like a coupe with it up, and the pleasure of open top motoring when the weather allows is fantastic, gives you almost two cars in one!

I did feel a little "uncomfortable" driving the Guards Red Boxster courtesy car last week. Don't know what it was, maybe just the colour, but whereas I feel cool in my Rhodium Cayman (I'm not by the way), I felt out of place in the Boxster. But then I'm over 27 so shouldn't have a convertible, ever.

The main reason I chose the Cayman was the overall look of it, not being compromised by the hood. I'd had convertibles for 15 years and was getting tired of feeling I must have the roof down when it's warm... getting a lobster head in the process, and getting sweaty when the air con should be keeping me cool in a closed roof car.

But... on the right day, on the right road, you can't beat roof down motoring...

[Jonny08]

OP's debate is 981 Cayman Vs 718 Cayman - Boxster isn't on the table, unless he wants to bring it on

[DJMC]

Jonny08 said:

OP's debate is 981 Cayman Vs 718 Cayman - Boxster isn't on the table, unless he wants to bring it on

I think it's fair enough for Boxster owners to offer reasons to consider one. The OP may not have considered that it's almost the same car. Each has their advantages.