new Cayman - 981 or 718?
Discussion
JasonSteel said:
test drove a 981Cs and a 718Bs...
loved both of them really so it boils down to financials for me and they way i see it is:
used 981 from Porsche approved around £45k - 'only' around 12 - 15k lower than list @ around 3 years old and reasonable mileage.
however the monthly payment and final balloon payment are /more than/ buying new from a 3rd party leasing company.
i'm new to leasing so am i missing something? why is the deal i've been offered by Porsche for a 2 year old car more expensive than buying a brand new, same spec car through a leasing company?
an additional consideration is that the approved warranty is only 2 years, so i have 1 final year of additional risk, whereas if i buy new i know i have a warranty in place for the entire period of ownership.
Very interested to know which leading company?loved both of them really so it boils down to financials for me and they way i see it is:
used 981 from Porsche approved around £45k - 'only' around 12 - 15k lower than list @ around 3 years old and reasonable mileage.
however the monthly payment and final balloon payment are /more than/ buying new from a 3rd party leasing company.
i'm new to leasing so am i missing something? why is the deal i've been offered by Porsche for a 2 year old car more expensive than buying a brand new, same spec car through a leasing company?
an additional consideration is that the approved warranty is only 2 years, so i have 1 final year of additional risk, whereas if i buy new i know i have a warranty in place for the entire period of ownership.
bcr5784 said:
HighwayStar said:
I've had my 981 Cayman S for a week now (previously enjoyed) and it's absolutely stunning. The best car I've ever had. The engine, the noise... The bass note of the engine, just there, over my shoulder on even the most mundane journey. For me personally the new turbo just is the event the flat 6 is.
One thing I am relieved about is, personally, the 718 styling doesn't make me feel I'm missing anything. The front end treatment has softened the 718 to these eyes. I've seen a couple of the Boxsters on the road an though they look nice I have no regrets about going the F6 route. I don't need anymore power, it's the right size and fast enough for our roads.
It's a keeper.
Accepting that is a very common view, I have to say that after 18 months of ownership, my biggest beef with my 981s is the hole in the torque curve in the 2500 to 4000 region (the varicam Valley as it sometimes referred to). Having driven a 991.2One thing I am relieved about is, personally, the 718 styling doesn't make me feel I'm missing anything. The front end treatment has softened the 718 to these eyes. I've seen a couple of the Boxsters on the road an though they look nice I have no regrets about going the F6 route. I don't need anymore power, it's the right size and fast enough for our roads.
It's a keeper.
and read various 781s reviews, I'm inclined to think I will prefer the 781s torque curve to the 981s. Noise and refinement I'm not so sure about, though I only care what it sounds like in the car. Definitely worth trying a 781 for me. I
It's preference.... easy effective progress or working for it.
I came, from a TTS, leaving aside the dynamics or the lack of of that car...its a fairly rapid car. I certainly had no problem making progress. From around 3000 rpm, the region you speak of, that's where things got interesting in respect low down torque. The TTS is pretty fast... Noise in the car though. Nah! There was no drama to go with the action, especially approaching the red line.
I dropped a friend off ast night, part of the trip involves a short stint on a dual carriage way. Let's just say the Cayman was well into the the upper rpm range. It sounded like I expect a proper performance car to sound. Proper mechanical noise. I love it.
Earlier in the day I was down in West London, traffic jams etc.. I never felt I was lacking any talk when it was needed.
As I said earlier, it's all about preference. It's obvious where my allegiance is.
You say you're only car what the car sounds like in the car... Does that mean you hope the engine noise is acceptable or you don't care, um, how what you hear is presented/produced as long as the sound is ok?
Coming from a 2012 TTS I too found no lack of torque, but there were other "holes". My 981 PDK is faultless away from the lights, whereas the turbo'd TTS would give that little bit of hesitation. Enough for me to feel disappointed. And the disconnection between accelerator and engine revs was odd too. Foot down and it would take a moment. Lift off and it would keep going a moment. It was a feeling of not quite being in control of the engine.
If there's a hole in the 981's rev range, a change of gear sorts it whereas the TTS' engine would sometimes be "all over the place" when changing gear manually. It's difficult to explain.
I know Porsche have done some "clever" things with the 718's fuel delivery to counter some of these issues but even if they have sorted all of the turbo-ness of these cars I still count the noise of the F6 as one of its best features. It's strange, but in such a great handling car it's not bends I look for, it's long clear stretches of road so I can hear the howl once more. Addictive.
If there's a hole in the 981's rev range, a change of gear sorts it whereas the TTS' engine would sometimes be "all over the place" when changing gear manually. It's difficult to explain.
I know Porsche have done some "clever" things with the 718's fuel delivery to counter some of these issues but even if they have sorted all of the turbo-ness of these cars I still count the noise of the F6 as one of its best features. It's strange, but in such a great handling car it's not bends I look for, it's long clear stretches of road so I can hear the howl once more. Addictive.
JasonSteel said:
Krobar said:
Check mileage allowance and are you comparing lease with lease? Secondhand is usually best financed privately as new pop deals are often good. You can borrow 25k unsecured at about 3.5% Apr so might be worth looking into that depending on your situation
yes, mileage and other details are all the same. awaiting final confirmation now and will be placing my order... will be a long summer though waiting for early autumn deliveries, but maybe a long summer isn't too bad 
in my case, all things considered it works out significantly cheaper for me to buy from a 3rd party company on personal contract. that way after 3 years assuming i treat the car well i should have a decent amount of equity that i can put into a new one.
before i commit though, and for comparison, where are you getting £25k @ 3.5%?
Prospective said:
Interesting reading the posts re 981c & 718c.
I have a 2.7 cayman 981 which I am now looking to replace with a 718 Cayman.
I managed a £4k discount on my current cayman from new and was wondering has anyone else managed similar when ordering a 718????
I will be selling my 981C privately etc. Rhodium Silver, Boxster II alloys, Cruise control, Sports steering wheel, Folding Mirrors 7,800 miles from new.
so around 10% off list and before options. from what i've read around here that sounds about right.I have a 2.7 cayman 981 which I am now looking to replace with a 718 Cayman.
I managed a £4k discount on my current cayman from new and was wondering has anyone else managed similar when ordering a 718????
I will be selling my 981C privately etc. Rhodium Silver, Boxster II alloys, Cruise control, Sports steering wheel, Folding Mirrors 7,800 miles from new.
what's your reasoning behind wanting to change? more aggressive styling? power? peace of mind? something else?
DJMC said:
Coming from a 2012 TTS I too found no lack of torque, but there were other "holes". My 981 PDK is faultless away from the lights, whereas the turbo'd TTS would give that little bit of hesitation. Enough for me to feel disappointed. And the disconnection between accelerator and engine revs was odd too. Foot down and it would take a moment. Lift off and it would keep going a moment. It was a feeling of not quite being in control of the engine.
If there's a hole in the 981's rev range, a change of gear sorts it whereas the TTS' engine would sometimes be "all over the place" when changing gear manually. It's difficult to explain.
I know Porsche have done some "clever" things with the 718's fuel delivery to counter some of these issues but even if they have sorted all of the turbo-ness of these cars I still count the noise of the F6 as one of its best features. It's strange, but in such a great handling car it's not bends I look for, it's long clear stretches of road so I can hear the howl once more. Addictive.
Totally agree with the 'holes' in the TTS repertoire, the throttle disconnection etc.. That moments hesitation pulling out of junctions or just when you want to get going from low speed and the turbo spooled up. That low speed no mans land where simply changing wouldn't be an option. You simply had to wait.If there's a hole in the 981's rev range, a change of gear sorts it whereas the TTS' engine would sometimes be "all over the place" when changing gear manually. It's difficult to explain.
I know Porsche have done some "clever" things with the 718's fuel delivery to counter some of these issues but even if they have sorted all of the turbo-ness of these cars I still count the noise of the F6 as one of its best features. It's strange, but in such a great handling car it's not bends I look for, it's long clear stretches of road so I can hear the howl once more. Addictive.
I too have the PDK and its everything the reviews said of it. I actually wanted a manual but the best car I could find, optioned to the rafters was a PDK. No regrets. It's so intuitive when in auto and appears instantaneous on the paddles.
The noise makes any journey satisfying. I love the car in the corners and the straights. I would image the PDK would go some way to make the turbo 718 engine feel more fluid but it just wouldn't as much fun for me with a turbo in there. I'll take that howl of a chunk of turbo torque. All. Day. Long.
Like food, I guess it's all about our idea of motoring fun and how we like it served up.
As I said previously I change my cars every 18 months, love my cayman 2.7 pdk but looking to update. Nothing else interests me to replace it with so will 95% be the new Cayman 718 2.0 agate grey, leather, pdk, cayman II alloys, multi function SW, folding mirrors, sports exhaust tips.
Anyone any contacts at Porsche leicester? reliably informed best for discounts at the moment?
thanks
Anyone any contacts at Porsche leicester? reliably informed best for discounts at the moment?
thanks
DJMC said:
Coming from a 2012 TTS I too found no lack of torque, but there were other "holes". My 981 PDK is faultless away from the lights, whereas the turbo'd TTS would give that little bit of hesitation. Enough for me to feel disappointed. And the disconnection between accelerator and engine revs was odd too. Foot down and it would take a moment. Lift off and it would keep going a moment. It was a feeling of not quite being in control of the engine.
If there's a hole in the 981's rev range, a change of gear sorts it whereas the TTS' engine would sometimes be "all over the place" when changing gear manually. It's difficult to explain.
I know Porsche have done some "clever" things with the 718's fuel delivery to counter some of these issues but even if they have sorted all of the turbo-ness of these cars I still count the noise of the F6 as one of its best features. It's strange, but in such a great handling car it's not bends I look for, it's long clear stretches of road so I can hear the howl once more. Addictive.
I know what mean about hesitation with some turbos - both my suburbs had it. But the 991.2 had no such issues with pdk though might with manual. The 991.2 doesn't have a variable vane turbo unlike the 781s, so I would expect it to be better in that regard. If there's a hole in the 981's rev range, a change of gear sorts it whereas the TTS' engine would sometimes be "all over the place" when changing gear manually. It's difficult to explain.
I know Porsche have done some "clever" things with the 718's fuel delivery to counter some of these issues but even if they have sorted all of the turbo-ness of these cars I still count the noise of the F6 as one of its best features. It's strange, but in such a great handling car it's not bends I look for, it's long clear stretches of road so I can hear the howl once more. Addictive.
As you say you can drive around the 981 by changing down - effectively avoiding the midrange, but that is my Problem, it becomes a bit of an all or nothing car. Not as extreme as an s2000 Honda or na civic r, but not ideal. If the 981 had a flat or gradually rising torque curve, I would much prefer it.
However, I'm sure our differing view, doubtless arises because handling is my top priority and torque helps in making it throttle adjustable, something I'm very keen on.
Re your query about noise, I always drive my Cayman with the windows closed- what it sounds like outside is of no concern to me. Boxster owners may take a different view.
Cpb1702 said:
Very interested to know which leading company?
well things have a changed a bit unfortunately...the original quote was on a new 981C. this was only 2 or 3 weeks before the announcement of the 718.
the quote hasn't yet expired, but the car is no longer in production so I received a fresh quote but the lease co. is now telling me that there is no discount available on the 718 as it's a brand new car.
i have no experience buying new cars, let alone one that isn't even in production yet so can anyone confirm if they've been offered a discount on a 718C, or if it's likely that Porsche will offer one?
JasonSteel said:
Cpb1702 said:
Very interested to know which leading company?
well things have a changed a bit unfortunately...the original quote was on a new 981C. this was only 2 or 3 weeks before the announcement of the 718.
the quote hasn't yet expired, but the car is no longer in production so I received a fresh quote but the lease co. is now telling me that there is no discount available on the 718 as it's a brand new car.
i have no experience buying new cars, let alone one that isn't even in production yet so can anyone confirm if they've been offered a discount on a 718C, or if it's likely that Porsche will offer one?
well i'm getting nowhere trying to get a discount on anything.
i told the guy about the reports of 10% discount but he said it's impossible in general on new orders of any Porsche, let alone a brand new car.
he said maybe on something that's in the showroom or if the current model is on its way out.
there are quite a few posts saying they got 10% off, and i'm wondering if any of these deals were on new orders with a personal spec?
i told the guy about the reports of 10% discount but he said it's impossible in general on new orders of any Porsche, let alone a brand new car.
he said maybe on something that's in the showroom or if the current model is on its way out.
there are quite a few posts saying they got 10% off, and i'm wondering if any of these deals were on new orders with a personal spec?
JasonSteel said:
well i'm getting nowhere trying to get a discount on anything.
i told the guy about the reports of 10% discount but he said it's impossible in general on new orders of any Porsche, let alone a brand new car.
he said maybe on something that's in the showroom or if the current model is on its way out.
there are quite a few posts saying they got 10% off, and i'm wondering if any of these deals were on new orders with a personal spec?
Face it Jason. It's not going to happen. As pointed out above. Maybe, MAYBE, a year from now IF the 718 is doing slow business you might get something off. i told the guy about the reports of 10% discount but he said it's impossible in general on new orders of any Porsche, let alone a brand new car.
he said maybe on something that's in the showroom or if the current model is on its way out.
there are quite a few posts saying they got 10% off, and i'm wondering if any of these deals were on new orders with a personal spec?
Why would Porsche offer discounts on a brand new model.
I was in Tonbridge Porsche yesterday, my friend looked at and bought a Cayman R. The new Box was in the showroom. From the pics I wasn't liking the restyled front end but in the metal... Damn it looked good. I like the look of convertibles, just never wanted one. The Cayman should look lovely. No F4 turbo for me though.
HighwayStar said:
Face it Jason. It's not going to happen.
honestly, that's what i figured even before i asked the question. it's just that i started seeing some of the threads on discounts and some customers were managing to find 10% off deals so i just wanted to make sure i wasn't paying over the odds.thanks to all of you for your input by the way as it's been very useful and reassuring.
I ordered a Boxster 2.7 981 from new a few months after its launch got £2k off plus if I had taken out Porsche finance a further £2k off!!! Talk Contribution! they don't like discount!!!!!
There is always a deal to be had its having the patience. Are they really going to let you walk out of the showroom and lose a sale to another dealer????
There is always a deal to be had its having the patience. Are they really going to let you walk out of the showroom and lose a sale to another dealer????
JasonSteel said:
was that a new order to spec or a showroom model?
It was a lightly specced stock vehicle retailing at 47k ish. I went in the weekend before Christmas and spent a few hours looking through the network database, found two identical cars, one red one white. Used Porsche finance to help the deal and settled it immediately. Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff