718 review - test drove today
Discussion
DJMC said:
You'd get a break in the traffic, accelerate, brake again, and the turbo overrun would keep you going when you were intending to be stopping. Maybe that's why it had such aggressive brakes!?
That really shouldn't happen - you just cut the fuel on lift off. From what I read that is exactly what happens in Sport+ on the 718 (and they keep the throttle open to keep the turbo spinning). Unfortunately in Sport (maybe only with PSE) to get the farty effects they don't cut the fuel and close the throttle (which gives lag) That sort of engineering (if it's as writ) really offends me. Not sure what happens in "normal". I'll have to try it when I get the chance. Ignoring the sound for a minute are peoples concerns about the power delivery due to the turbo?
If yes is the power delivery on a 911 turbo any different. I've never driven one but I aspired for one in my youth. And if the Macan has a turbo and the 'other' review liked the Macan how come it's ok in that car but not the 718?
Obviously I have to make my own decision but the negative vibes create self doubt. Maybe I should get a 911 Targa instead.
If yes is the power delivery on a 911 turbo any different. I've never driven one but I aspired for one in my youth. And if the Macan has a turbo and the 'other' review liked the Macan how come it's ok in that car but not the 718?
Obviously I have to make my own decision but the negative vibes create self doubt. Maybe I should get a 911 Targa instead.
Sparkyhd said:
Ignoring the sound for a minute are peoples concerns about the power delivery due to the turbo?
If yes is the power delivery on a 911 turbo any different. I've never driven one but I aspired for one in my youth. And if the Macan has a turbo and the 'other' review liked the Macan how come it's ok in that car but not the 718?
Obviously I have to make my own decision but the negative vibes create self doubt. Maybe I should get a 911 Targa instead.
Can't believe the 911 turbo is as bad - at least it still has six cylinders!If yes is the power delivery on a 911 turbo any different. I've never driven one but I aspired for one in my youth. And if the Macan has a turbo and the 'other' review liked the Macan how come it's ok in that car but not the 718?
Obviously I have to make my own decision but the negative vibes create self doubt. Maybe I should get a 911 Targa instead.
Sparkyhd said:
Ignoring the sound for a minute are peoples concerns about the power delivery due to the turbo?
If yes is the power delivery on a 911 turbo any different. I've never driven one but I aspired for one in my youth. And if the Macan has a turbo and the 'other' review liked the Macan how come it's ok in that car but not the 718?
Obviously I have to make my own decision but the negative vibes create self doubt. Maybe I should get a 911 Targa instead.
On paper the shape of the torque curve of both 718s, the 991 Turbo and the 991.2 is fundamentally similar with a flat torque from 2000-5000 or so and peak power at about 6500. If yes is the power delivery on a 911 turbo any different. I've never driven one but I aspired for one in my youth. And if the Macan has a turbo and the 'other' review liked the Macan how come it's ok in that car but not the 718?
Obviously I have to make my own decision but the negative vibes create self doubt. Maybe I should get a 911 Targa instead.
I have had a 991.2 for a day and liked the shape of the power curve, others clearly don't. They only way you will see if you like that kind of power delivery is to suck it and see. Likewise noise - the only way you will find out what it is really like in the car is to drive it.
Sparkyhd said:
Ignoring the sound for a minute are peoples concerns about the power delivery due to the turbo?
If yes is the power delivery on a 911 turbo any different. I've never driven one but I aspired for one in my youth. And if the Macan has a turbo and the 'other' review liked the Macan how come it's ok in that car but not the 718?
Obviously I have to make my own decision but the negative vibes create self doubt. Maybe I should get a 911 Targa instead.
Well, in a nutshell you gain low end squeeze and go in trade for top end excitement. Then you also get some turbo lag/elastic throttle thrown in for good measure as well as some turbo whistle and a muted sound. And that was the 991.2 Carrera S I drove which still has 6 cylinders.If yes is the power delivery on a 911 turbo any different. I've never driven one but I aspired for one in my youth. And if the Macan has a turbo and the 'other' review liked the Macan how come it's ok in that car but not the 718?
Obviously I have to make my own decision but the negative vibes create self doubt. Maybe I should get a 911 Targa instead.
I think the problem is Porsche are selling these cars as a turbo car that is not a turbo. People are being told there is no lag, it sounds fine, still has top end etc etc. Which means that when you go out and drive them and find that in the last few tenths it's simply not the case, the disappointment is massive.
If they flogged them as 911/Cayster Turbo-lite, they'd probably get less of a hazing
CarreraLightweightRacing said:
Independent review here of the 718 today, from a potential buyer.
Just one little question about the 981 handbrake. He says..."The electronic handbrake has been improved since the 981. Now you don't have to turn it off when you are about to move away. It disengages automatically when it feels the car about to move. This is a massive plus as the old car had me cursing every time I had to do a hill start."
In my 981 the handbrake disengages automatically and auto engages on hills where the gradient overcomes the PDK box's ability to keep the car moving forward. In this "hill hold" mode I can then simply drive off and the handbrake auto disengages.
I guess he's referring to the 981 manual?
Sparkyhd said:
Ignoring the sound for a minute are peoples concerns about the power delivery due to the turbo?
to summarise some of the key points discussed so far:basically, if you're a pro racer like many on here, then you need the 987 (preferably), or the 981. either of these buys the finest engine money can buy and you can race it and keep that engine wailing in the top tenths on our traffic free roads and motorways.
if you're an idiot, or just a to__er after the Porsche badge, then go ahead and get the 718. the worst value for money comes with the 'S'. that has the chavier looks and the cheaper materials. the engine, in case you didn't realise, is a 4 cylinder turbo. it might offer similar performance levels to the GT4, but it's lifted from the Beetle* so the way the power is delivered is just a joke and completely irrelevant to anyone but newcomers to motoring, or those that have no knowledge about cars and driving and just like to pose instead. you can read all about this in the unbiased review linked a few posts above, which was posted by a potential buyer**.
nevermind that the new Boxster S is 16 seconds quicker around the Nurburgring than the outgoing model, and is only 2 seconds slower than the current GT4. nevermind that the Cayman will be quicker still and will probably therefore match the GT4 time despite having less power.
forget all that and either bag yourself a 981 (if you can find one of course because apparently they've all been hoovered up and there are none left to buy***) or go for a lovely Audi S3. it is an all round much better car than the 718, performs better, looks like a real sports car should, and as an added bonus you can use it to go shopping and get stuck in traffic. if you're after the ultimate in low end grunt then consider a tractor.
* or the Scirocco or possibly the Subaru - opinion is divided on this.
** ignore all reviews by established motoring journalists which praise the new car.
*** apart from the few hundred or so on the open market.
Edited by JasonSteel on Sunday 22 May 00:03
'Badge Leasers'
I like that
Your point is important though, I know of a few prolific posters on PH, with a wealth of experience that simply don't want to be part of this relentless PH b1tch fest anymore. Tis a real shame; a bit of banter never hurt anyone. If the likes of cmoose lose interest here, it is a loss for everyone. Opinionated he may be but it is based on sound logic and professional experience in the subject matter!
I like that
Your point is important though, I know of a few prolific posters on PH, with a wealth of experience that simply don't want to be part of this relentless PH b1tch fest anymore. Tis a real shame; a bit of banter never hurt anyone. If the likes of cmoose lose interest here, it is a loss for everyone. Opinionated he may be but it is based on sound logic and professional experience in the subject matter!
DJMC said:
Just one little question about the 981 handbrake. He says...
"The electronic handbrake has been improved since the 981. Now you don't have to turn it off when you are about to move away. It disengages automatically when it feels the car about to move. This is a massive plus as the old car had me cursing every time I had to do a hill start."
In my 981 the handbrake disengages automatically and auto engages on hills where the gradient overcomes the PDK box's ability to keep the car moving forward. In this "hill hold" mode I can then simply drive off and the handbrake auto disengages.
I guess he's referring to the 981 manual?
The hand brake disengages automatically on my manual GTS, and the hill hold function is triggered manually using the foot brake and clutch. Maybe it's different in a 987?"The electronic handbrake has been improved since the 981. Now you don't have to turn it off when you are about to move away. It disengages automatically when it feels the car about to move. This is a massive plus as the old car had me cursing every time I had to do a hill start."
In my 981 the handbrake disengages automatically and auto engages on hills where the gradient overcomes the PDK box's ability to keep the car moving forward. In this "hill hold" mode I can then simply drive off and the handbrake auto disengages.
I guess he's referring to the 981 manual?
woodysnr said:
My 987 Spyder has the conventional pull up hand brake think it is only the newer 981 that have the electronic device
It's the 981 he's comparing to. Maybe he never tried just pressing the gas pedal when pulling away, and always assumed he had to manually disengage it. Anyhow, appears he's mistaken. No matter.JasonSteel said:
to summarise some of the key points discussed so far:
basically, if you're a pro racer like many on here, then you need the 987 (preferably), or the 981. either of these buys the finest engine money can buy and you can race it and keep that engine wailing in the top tenths on our traffic free roads and motorways.
if you're an idiot, or just a to__er after the Porsche badge, then go ahead and get the 718. the worst value for money comes with the 'S'. that has the chavier looks and the cheaper materials. the engine, in case you didn't realise, is a 4 cylinder turbo. it might offer similar performance levels to the GT4, but it's lifted from the Beetle* so the way the power is delivered is just a joke and completely irrelevant to anyone but newcomers to motoring, or those that have no knowledge about cars and driving and just like to pose instead. you can read all about this in the unbiased review linked a few posts above, which was posted by a potential buyer**.
nevermind that the new Boxster S is 16 seconds quicker around the Nurburgring than the outgoing model, and is only 2 seconds slower than the current GT4. nevermind that the Cayman will be quicker still and will probably therefore match the GT4 time despite having less power.
forget all that and either bag yourself a 981 (if you can find one of course because apparently they've all been hoovered up and there are none left to buy***) or go for a lovely Audi S3. it is an all round much better car than the 718, performs better, looks like a real sports car should, and as an added bonus you can use it to go shopping and get stuck in traffic. if you're after the ultimate in low end grunt then consider a tractor.
* or the Scirocco or possibly the Subaru - opinion is divided on this.
** ignore all reviews by established motoring journalists which praise the new car.
*** apart from the few hundred or so on the open market.
Hmmm... Does sound a little like sour grapes now you have ordered a 718 and are perhaps thinking it's a mistake?basically, if you're a pro racer like many on here, then you need the 987 (preferably), or the 981. either of these buys the finest engine money can buy and you can race it and keep that engine wailing in the top tenths on our traffic free roads and motorways.
if you're an idiot, or just a to__er after the Porsche badge, then go ahead and get the 718. the worst value for money comes with the 'S'. that has the chavier looks and the cheaper materials. the engine, in case you didn't realise, is a 4 cylinder turbo. it might offer similar performance levels to the GT4, but it's lifted from the Beetle* so the way the power is delivered is just a joke and completely irrelevant to anyone but newcomers to motoring, or those that have no knowledge about cars and driving and just like to pose instead. you can read all about this in the unbiased review linked a few posts above, which was posted by a potential buyer**.
nevermind that the new Boxster S is 16 seconds quicker around the Nurburgring than the outgoing model, and is only 2 seconds slower than the current GT4. nevermind that the Cayman will be quicker still and will probably therefore match the GT4 time despite having less power.
forget all that and either bag yourself a 981 (if you can find one of course because apparently they've all been hoovered up and there are none left to buy***) or go for a lovely Audi S3. it is an all round much better car than the 718, performs better, looks like a real sports car should, and as an added bonus you can use it to go shopping and get stuck in traffic. if you're after the ultimate in low end grunt then consider a tractor.
* or the Scirocco or possibly the Subaru - opinion is divided on this.
** ignore all reviews by established motoring journalists which praise the new car.
*** apart from the few hundred or so on the open market.
Edited by JasonSteel on Sunday 22 May 00:03
Surely the 718 is the "racer's" car, being faster? Plus, you like the idea of going around the 'ring faster too.
As a first Boxster or Cayman I'm sure the new 718 owners will be absolutely delighted with the car. As I was (in the beginning) with my TTS. Whether it goes on to be a "classic" or a stylish but humdrum hatchback only time will tell.
There will be buyers aplenty for both used 981 and 718 models. Each to their own.
DJMC said:
It's the 981 he's comparing to. Maybe he never tried just pressing the gas pedal when pulling away, and always assumed he had to manually disengage it. Anyhow, appears he's mistaken. No matter.
I have a manual 981 and yes, it does disengage automatically and has hill hold too. It can be a little slow to do so if you want a fast getaway, but I've never had any issues with itAfter having owned a E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 1M, a 981 Cayman GTS, and now drive a F87 M2 for 3 weeks I was give the opportunity yesterday to testdrive a GT4 and the 718 Boxster S;
GT4
Man oh man what a driving machine! The sound, the grip and traction, the most and direct steering ever, FANTASTIC ! Clutch heavy, throws are short and precise, but I had yo adjust myself for the heavy clutch coming out of the 6MT M2 witch is too light and effortless, the M2 is almost a women`s car compared to the GT4.
For dd it is a little too much IMHO, very firm, a little long gearing, if you want the best out of this car you`ll have to track it.
The steering was the best par for me, if my previous GTS had steered this way I would have never ever turned in that car, the GTS steering had IMO yo much self centering force, my idea was always I had to fight the steering while hard cornering. Sound GT4/GTS isn`t that different, it is just the fabulous flat 6 NA sound that gives you goosebumps.
Boxster S
PDK, 18 way electrical seats, beautiful GT multi function leather steering wheel ( I do prefer leather, I found the alcantara GTS steering wheel feel somewhat artificial, it also was too thin for my liking) the Boxster steering wheel is smaller in diameter and also a tad thicker witch I liked very much !
The car is slightly less direct for its steering characteristics than the GT4, but it is miles ahead compared to the GTS steering, softer off course but it has an amazing road compliance, the seats are perfectly adjustable and you could drive ll day long if needed.
The PDK is brilliant, for both in auto as in manual mode, so intuitive, I love it although I have mostly driven MT`s (the Cayman GTS was also PDK and my God it was good) I`ve made a comparison with a BMW M4 M-DCT on a testdrive late February, now the PDK outsmarts the M-DCT by far!
It is just amazing how easy and how fast the car moves!!, I handles perfectly, the balance can`t be beaten. It is just a perfect dd, it is quiet in the car, this version had no sports exhaust. That is exact the only minor point IMHO. It is a genuine sports car, but it lacks sound for that matter, it can in no way match the maniac 6 flat GT4/GTS sound. I can imagine the true Porsche adepts overhere are disappointed because of this. but for me personally al in al it is just a fantastic car and raises once again the bar to the 981.
The M2 has stopped already where Porsche is starting IMO.
I`m very anxious for the next Cayman GTS indeed !
GT4
Man oh man what a driving machine! The sound, the grip and traction, the most and direct steering ever, FANTASTIC ! Clutch heavy, throws are short and precise, but I had yo adjust myself for the heavy clutch coming out of the 6MT M2 witch is too light and effortless, the M2 is almost a women`s car compared to the GT4.
For dd it is a little too much IMHO, very firm, a little long gearing, if you want the best out of this car you`ll have to track it.
The steering was the best par for me, if my previous GTS had steered this way I would have never ever turned in that car, the GTS steering had IMO yo much self centering force, my idea was always I had to fight the steering while hard cornering. Sound GT4/GTS isn`t that different, it is just the fabulous flat 6 NA sound that gives you goosebumps.
Boxster S
PDK, 18 way electrical seats, beautiful GT multi function leather steering wheel ( I do prefer leather, I found the alcantara GTS steering wheel feel somewhat artificial, it also was too thin for my liking) the Boxster steering wheel is smaller in diameter and also a tad thicker witch I liked very much !
The car is slightly less direct for its steering characteristics than the GT4, but it is miles ahead compared to the GTS steering, softer off course but it has an amazing road compliance, the seats are perfectly adjustable and you could drive ll day long if needed.
The PDK is brilliant, for both in auto as in manual mode, so intuitive, I love it although I have mostly driven MT`s (the Cayman GTS was also PDK and my God it was good) I`ve made a comparison with a BMW M4 M-DCT on a testdrive late February, now the PDK outsmarts the M-DCT by far!
It is just amazing how easy and how fast the car moves!!, I handles perfectly, the balance can`t be beaten. It is just a perfect dd, it is quiet in the car, this version had no sports exhaust. That is exact the only minor point IMHO. It is a genuine sports car, but it lacks sound for that matter, it can in no way match the maniac 6 flat GT4/GTS sound. I can imagine the true Porsche adepts overhere are disappointed because of this. but for me personally al in al it is just a fantastic car and raises once again the bar to the 981.
The M2 has stopped already where Porsche is starting IMO.
I`m very anxious for the next Cayman GTS indeed !
Edited by Romo on Sunday 22 May 10:58
Edited by Romo on Sunday 22 May 10:59
DJMC said:
Hmmm... Does sound a little like sour grapes now you have ordered a 718 and are perhaps thinking it's a mistake?
not at all. my grapes taste just fine and if i really felt it was a mistake i could simply cancel my order and get my deposit back, but i'm not about to do that as i'm really looking forward to taking delivery of my badge.i was just adding to "the banter" and adding a bit of perspective to comments like:
ORD said:
It's basically the same car but with a shopping car engine in the place of a truly special sports car engine. It should be vastly cheaper, because it is a much less upmarket offering.
a counter point to this argument is that even with the shopping car engine and the underpowered motor (compared to the GT4), it gets around the 'ring in about the same time as the GT4, and way quicker than the out going 981. there must be other things contributing to that performance but unfortunately it's impossible to have a reasoned discussion about that.on top of that there are a number of upgrades, some of which are new and some of which would have been options on the 981.
DJMC said:
As a first Boxster or Cayman I'm sure the new 718 owners will be absolutely delighted with the car. As I was (in the beginning) with my TTS. Whether it goes on to be a "classic" or a stylish but humdrum hatchback only time will tell.
if you lost delight in your TTS then that implies that you made the wrong choice getting one.from my perspective, i won't have the car anywhere near long enough to worry about whether it will go on to be a classic or not.
DJMC said:
Each to their own.
precisely - so why is it so difficult to have a discussion on here?JasonSteel said:
precisely - so why is it so difficult to have a discussion on here?
Hi Jason Steel I'm also an idiot who has ordered a shopping car 2ltr. engined car. I should have checked with one or two people on here for advice before placing my order. Though thinking about it I do have a little experience in that I've had a Boxster for 14 yrs. But I sold it recently to buy the shopping engined car. I wonder if its too late to cancel? Maybe get an Audi for a lot less money!Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff