718 review - test drove today
Discussion
ORD said:
FrankCayman said:
My Dad is a life long driving enthusiast - good driver too. He doesn't like Porsches full stop. So how does that work in your world ORDer ? 
I doubt he likes 4 cylinder turbos with peak torque from 1900 revs. If he does, he's a weird kind of driving enthusiast. Porsche911R said:
FrankCayman said:
My Dad is a life long driving enthusiast - good driver too. He doesn't like Porsches full stop.
why not ?I am not brand loyal and have run 66 cars, but if you like cars you have to like Porsche !! I don't dislike any brand.
To say somebody is not a real enthusiast because they don't like the same style of engine/dynamics etc. as you, doesn't make them any less of an enthusiast.
Some 'enthusiasts' actually DO like low down torque.......
Surely there is no rule in this forum that defines what you have to like to be as such?
FrankCayman said:
Gentleman, I was merely illustrating that car/driving enthusiasts don't all subscribe to the same things when enthusing about cars.
To say somebody is not a real enthusiast because they don't like the same style of engine/dynamics etc. as you, doesn't make them any less of an enthusiast.
Some 'enthusiasts' actually DO like low down torque.......
Surely there is no rule in this forum that defines what you have to like to be as such?
That's radical talk - you'll be saying next that it's OK for Labour and Tory voters, Catholics and Protestants, even Christians and Muslims, to hold different views next. To say somebody is not a real enthusiast because they don't like the same style of engine/dynamics etc. as you, doesn't make them any less of an enthusiast.
Some 'enthusiasts' actually DO like low down torque.......
Surely there is no rule in this forum that defines what you have to like to be as such?
.... 
bcr5784 said:
While ultimately the driver is responsible, some cars are less helpful than others depending on their design. If you have a rear engined car which has a natural tendency to oversteer and then fit semi trailing arm rear suspension (as used to be the case) which gives power understeer and lift off oversteer it's not the best recipe for safe handling in an emergency situation.
I've not driven a pre-993 911, but my understanding is it's a bit like a motorbike: if you go into a corner too fast, you're committed and you have to grow a big pair sharpish, keep your foot/hand in and you might get away with it! If you come off the throttle or grab the brakes you're definitely going straight off! 
Mario149 said:
I've not driven a pre-993 911, but my understanding is it's a bit like a motorbike: if you go into a corner too fast, you're committed and you have to grow a big pair sharpish, keep your foot/hand in and you might get away with it! If you come off the throttle or grab the brakes you're definitely going straight off!
A huge simplification! Theres way more to it than that and its why they are such a challenge and fun!mollytherocker said:
A huge simplification! Theres way more to it than that and its why they are such a challenge and fun!
OK MTR , enlighten us 
I tend to just shut my eyes , say s
t really loud , a bit like : shieeeeeet and hope for the best Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 24th May 20:46
FrankCayman said:
ORD said:
FrankCayman said:
My Dad is a life long driving enthusiast - good driver too. He doesn't like Porsches full stop. So how does that work in your world ORDer ?
I doubt he likes 4 cylinder turbos with peak torque from 1900 revs. If he does, he's a weird kind of driving enthusiast. Or should I just have a Honda S2000, all revs and no torque?
This is a hypothetical, I don't want any children or animals harmed during the course of the discussion.
pete.g said:
Just pondering on this: If (and I really wish I did) I had in my garage a BMW 2002 Turbo, 924 Carrera GT, 944 Turbo, Delta Integrale, Escort/Sierra Cosworth, Subaru Impreza (many iterations, but lets say a 22B) , Mitsubishi Lancer Evo (almost as many iterations - I'll take an Evo VI) - would I be a driving enthusiast?
Or should I just have a Honda S2000, all revs and no torque?
This is a hypothetical, I don't want any children or animals harmed during the course of the discussion.
See, the issue is all those cars you've named had turbos for performance reasons (apart from the S2K!). The 718 turbo lump is purely emissions-led. If CO2 wasn't such a bit issue, Porsche wouldn't have touched a turbo 4 pot with a barge pole for the Cayster. You only have to look at the desperate attempt at the old 718 marketing link to see that. It's not, dare I say it, an enthusiast-designed engine.Or should I just have a Honda S2000, all revs and no torque?
This is a hypothetical, I don't want any children or animals harmed during the course of the discussion.
RSVP911 said:
mollytherocker said:
A huge simplification! Theres way more to it than that and its why they are such a challenge and fun!
OK MTR , enlighten us I tend to just shut my eyes , say st really loud , a bit like : shieeeeeet and hope for the best Edited by RSVP911 on Tuesday 24th May 20:46
JasonSteel said:
it's the 'S'. just checked again and there are 2 19" options not 1, but no 18 inch options. i have spec'ed PASM too.
to be honest my reason for going with the 20" rims is purely aesthetic. i'd like black wheels as i think they look great with the Agate grey body. but the other wheels in black lose all definition and it's difficult to see any detail in them. so i've opted for the Carrera Sport with gloss black painting. they keep the key definition as only the centre piece of each spoke is painted while the edges remain polished. i still have the option of changing if needed until the OPC calls me in to have a look at them when they have some for me to see.
I think the edge you refer to is "machine polished" and I'm sure I read somewhere that this means major expense to repair kerbing, rather than an easily painted finish repair. Is there still a "painted platinum" option or a full gloss black? This may be a better bet for when, not if, you kerb one?to be honest my reason for going with the 20" rims is purely aesthetic. i'd like black wheels as i think they look great with the Agate grey body. but the other wheels in black lose all definition and it's difficult to see any detail in them. so i've opted for the Carrera Sport with gloss black painting. they keep the key definition as only the centre piece of each spoke is painted while the edges remain polished. i still have the option of changing if needed until the OPC calls me in to have a look at them when they have some for me to see.
DJMC said:
JasonSteel said:
it's the 'S'. just checked again and there are 2 19" options not 1, but no 18 inch options. i have spec'ed PASM too.
to be honest my reason for going with the 20" rims is purely aesthetic. i'd like black wheels as i think they look great with the Agate grey body. but the other wheels in black lose all definition and it's difficult to see any detail in them. so i've opted for the Carrera Sport with gloss black painting. they keep the key definition as only the centre piece of each spoke is painted while the edges remain polished. i still have the option of changing if needed until the OPC calls me in to have a look at them when they have some for me to see.
I think the edge you refer to is "machine polished" and I'm sure I read somewhere that this means major expense to repair kerbing, rather than an easily painted finish repair. Is there still a "painted platinum" option or a full gloss black? This may be a better bet for when, not if, you kerb one?to be honest my reason for going with the 20" rims is purely aesthetic. i'd like black wheels as i think they look great with the Agate grey body. but the other wheels in black lose all definition and it's difficult to see any detail in them. so i've opted for the Carrera Sport with gloss black painting. they keep the key definition as only the centre piece of each spoke is painted while the edges remain polished. i still have the option of changing if needed until the OPC calls me in to have a look at them when they have some for me to see.
Mario149 said:
See, the issue is all those cars you've named had turbos for performance reasons (apart from the S2K!). The 718 turbo lump is purely emissions-led. If CO2 wasn't such a bit issue, Porsche wouldn't have touched a turbo 4 pot with a barge pole for the Cayster. You only have to look at the desperate attempt at the old 718 marketing link to see that. It's not, dare I say it, an enthusiast-designed engine.
Accepting that emissions were the primary driver, as they were for the high gearing which 981s are lumbered with, you have to get beyond that and ask is the net outcome a plus or minus. If you look at comments from people who have driven the car you would have to say the jury is divided. Ask the same question about the 981 gearing and I think the jury is practically unanimous. bcr5784 said:
fredt said:
Love the teachings on what is a real driving enthusiast.
Learnt a lot in here!
Well I have raced and my family has been steeped in racing for over 20 years - how about you? I don't claim that not having raced suggests you not a driving enthusiast - but I would suggest that if you are prepared to spend thousands and countless hours on racing, it might qualify you as an enthusiast.Learnt a lot in here!
bcr5784 said:
Accepting that emissions were the primary driver, as they were for the high gearing which 981s are lumbered with, you have to get beyond that and ask is the net outcome a plus or minus. If you look at comments from people who have driven the car you would have to say the jury is divided.
Looking at this thread I'd say the jury is very much against - sounds to me like everyones fears have come to fruition and Porsche have ruined the Boxster - crying shame 
bcr5784 said:
Mario149 said:
See, the issue is all those cars you've named had turbos for performance reasons (apart from the S2K!). The 718 turbo lump is purely emissions-led. If CO2 wasn't such a bit issue, Porsche wouldn't have touched a turbo 4 pot with a barge pole for the Cayster. You only have to look at the desperate attempt at the old 718 marketing link to see that. It's not, dare I say it, an enthusiast-designed engine.
Accepting that emissions were the primary driver, as they were for the high gearing which 981s are lumbered with, you have to get beyond that and ask is the net outcome a plus or minus. If you look at comments from people who have driven the car you would have to say the jury is divided. Ask the same question about the 981 gearing and I think the jury is practically unanimous. 
anonymous said:
[redacted]
My prediction: the Croc engine went pop unfortunately, so he's finally scratching the 911 itch, has put his money where his mouth is and bought a 996.1 Manual C2! In the midst of all of this, someone paid him to go drive a shiny new 911 somewhere nice.Am I close?!
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