718 review - test drove today
Discussion
Ian in Halifax said:
Ive not specd up yet but its looking like Miami Blue, PDK (a given) 911 wheels, leather interior, cruise, chrono, psm, not sure about sport exhaust, any advice ?
,
Isn't PSM standard!?,
Get PASM. Don't emphasise the exhaust? Chrono's a waste unless you're tracking it.
Get auto wipers and climate.
shoestring7 said:
You'll of course remember that in the late 80s a 4 pot 944t was the same price as a vanilla 911 - around £75k today.
SS7
Chatted to a guy in a supermarket car park with a 987 2.9 Cayman yesterday. He still has his 944 too, and loves it.SS7
I recall in the 80's the 944 was renowned as THE best handling of ALL production cars. Wonder how it would fare today?
DJMC said:
Chatted to a guy in a supermarket car park with a 987 2.9 Cayman yesterday. He still has his 944 too, and loves it.
I recall in the 80's the 944 was renowned as THE best handling of ALL production cars. Wonder how it would fare today?
Not very well I suspect. Semi trailing arm is a thoroughly bad design of rear suspension which inevitably gives a change of toe in when it moves and (almost inevitably) gives lift off oversteer. I recall in the 80's the 944 was renowned as THE best handling of ALL production cars. Wonder how it would fare today?
bcr5784 said:
DJMC said:
Chatted to a guy in a supermarket car park with a 987 2.9 Cayman yesterday. He still has his 944 too, and loves it.
I recall in the 80's the 944 was renowned as THE best handling of ALL production cars. Wonder how it would fare today?
Not very well I suspect. Semi trailing arm is a thoroughly bad design of rear suspension which inevitably gives a change of toe in when it moves and (almost inevitably) gives lift off oversteer. I recall in the 80's the 944 was renowned as THE best handling of ALL production cars. Wonder how it would fare today?
Mario149 said:
Is the 968 the same? They seem highly prized for track days
Yes. Like pretty much any suspension if you make it stiff enough you can mitigate its geometrical deficiencies, and on track you want it pretty stiff anyway. Even Formula Vees are quick with their beetle swing axles. But it's very much a case of "you don't want to start from there".The big plus the cars have is the rear transaxle means that the engine is mounted well back and all of the mass is centralised, resulting in a low polar moment of an inertia - like a mid engined car, but better fore-aft weight distribution.
Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 18th June 19:18
Have you actually looked at the cars?
Sorry to have a dig on a Sunday but the 944/968 do not have anything like a low polar moment. Most of the engine sits over the front axle as in it pokes out front, same at the back where the gearset part of the gearbox is behind the axle line. The engine is also a big heavy beast so the moment at the front is likely worse than in most front drive cars these days, certainly the engine in my 1350 Kg Megane (same weight as 968) looks tiny compared to the car or a 944/968 engine. You can feel this weight as soon as you try to turn into a bend.
Best things about 944/968 are the all alloy suspension, very stiff mountings into the chassis, very even weight distribution and perfect driving position. My 944 race car for example corner weights out to within 7 kg on the cross, 50.5/49.5 front/rear distribution, on the downside it means they only go fast on track when driving right on the hairy edge but fundamentally the near perfect weight distribution means they can be.
There still great cars, nobody has made a hot hatch for example yet with as good a driving position or control weights but unfortunately most of em made over the past 10 years seem to be as fast or faster and for less new than the insane prices 968 CS are going for now. Many will prefer the front end feel of the mid engined cars which no hatch or 944/968 can match. Boils down to how you like it.
Sorry to have a dig on a Sunday but the 944/968 do not have anything like a low polar moment. Most of the engine sits over the front axle as in it pokes out front, same at the back where the gearset part of the gearbox is behind the axle line. The engine is also a big heavy beast so the moment at the front is likely worse than in most front drive cars these days, certainly the engine in my 1350 Kg Megane (same weight as 968) looks tiny compared to the car or a 944/968 engine. You can feel this weight as soon as you try to turn into a bend.
Best things about 944/968 are the all alloy suspension, very stiff mountings into the chassis, very even weight distribution and perfect driving position. My 944 race car for example corner weights out to within 7 kg on the cross, 50.5/49.5 front/rear distribution, on the downside it means they only go fast on track when driving right on the hairy edge but fundamentally the near perfect weight distribution means they can be.
There still great cars, nobody has made a hot hatch for example yet with as good a driving position or control weights but unfortunately most of em made over the past 10 years seem to be as fast or faster and for less new than the insane prices 968 CS are going for now. Many will prefer the front end feel of the mid engined cars which no hatch or 944/968 can match. Boils down to how you like it.
I think it's fair to say the mass was equalised across the axles rather than centralised between them, but bear in mind that in those days Porsche wasn't building any mid-engined cars at all and the 911 had its oily bits hanging out at the back! 944 and its successors were an excellent drive in their day.
NJH said:
Have you actually looked at the cars?
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Yes..
Looks far better than most front engine rwd cars to me. The engine is all alloy so not a particularly heavy lump. Ok the weights not anything like as well placed as a Caterham or most sports cars of the thirties, but compared to most modern front engined cars it compares well. And any FWD car made today has ALL of the engine ahead of the axle.
Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 19th June 12:27
Edited by bcr5784 on Sunday 19th June 12:45
The engine weighs nearly 200 Kg btw so hardly light, I have helped remove and fit the one in my race car. Bit of a pig to fit, we found its quicker and easier to lift the car off the engine rather i.e. out through the bottom. They are neither small or light engines but granted not outrageous in either terms. The positioning is not bad compared to BMWs but its not way back in the chassis as favoured by front mid designs in some high end stuff. Hardly low polar moment which was the point made, low polar moment is stuff like Caterhams, mid engined stuff and purpose built race cars. I wouldn't be too sure btw about front drivers, yes the engine sump sits just in front of the axle line but all alloy lumps like Renault F4r are only about 100 kg without all the junk added on but are often now sat in cars not much lighter than a 944/968. The front drivers do have bad front/rear weight distribution though because there is usually little in the back of the car beyond a bench seat and piddly fuel tank.
Not just the seating position though, we have 2 French hot hatches in our house hold and both have the gear stick and steering wheel too far away. I am barely 5'8 but I just can't get the steering wheel far enough back in the Megane, its just really stupid. Still love em though despite the foibles but no one wold buy the things for anything other than being really cheap.
Lol about the 924 early 944 wheel position, never understood that, would be hilarious seeing a Rugby player get jammed into one of those.
Lol about the 924 early 944 wheel position, never understood that, would be hilarious seeing a Rugby player get jammed into one of those.
Monkey reviews the 718, pretty balanced but it does get a bit of a slating.
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/chris-ha...
Interesting last line though:
"Despite the extra speed, I’d prefer a nearly new six-cylinder car from last year, but here’s the bit that will really stick in the craw of the opposition: even though Porsche has made the new Boxster less desirable than the old Boxster, it is still by far the best car of its type."
http://www.topgear.com/car-news/big-reads/chris-ha...
Interesting last line though:
"Despite the extra speed, I’d prefer a nearly new six-cylinder car from last year, but here’s the bit that will really stick in the craw of the opposition: even though Porsche has made the new Boxster less desirable than the old Boxster, it is still by far the best car of its type."
Edited by Mario149 on Tuesday 21st June 08:59
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