718 review - test drove today
Discussion
It's all about economics and efficiency. I really do hope the new owners would enjoy the car but they have cut 2 cylinders from it and it would never feel the same, especially a car like boxster, mid-engine, you as a driver completely associated to the engine while driving, unlike any other front-engine sports car and that made it quite special for many Boxster owners since its launch.
As a potential buyer, my worry has been mainly the maintenance of the new engine, and hopefully someone has much more technical knowledge on the subject can clarify. In terms of cooling. Boxster was always notorious just like any mid-engine engine car and now that 4 clynder Turbos introduced, which mean more heat. It looks like it can contribute to premature wear or damage on an engine much earlier comparing to 981 or 987.2 let's say, but again only time would tell about the reliability I guess?
As a potential buyer, my worry has been mainly the maintenance of the new engine, and hopefully someone has much more technical knowledge on the subject can clarify. In terms of cooling. Boxster was always notorious just like any mid-engine engine car and now that 4 clynder Turbos introduced, which mean more heat. It looks like it can contribute to premature wear or damage on an engine much earlier comparing to 981 or 987.2 let's say, but again only time would tell about the reliability I guess?
there are some perfectly valid points being made, but others that are a bit more subjective rather than objective.
if we're talking about delayed response, do i need instant, maximum power and torque when i'm about to turn right? i'm sure the engine even without the turbo is plenty capable of making the turn in good time.
an overtake? drop a gear and accelerate much quicker than without the turbo. so that's safer.
the initial delay? well i can't argue against that but i'd rather have a bit of that occasionally, and have the additional punch when enjoying a spirited drive - and it really is a punch.
if we're talking noise and prestige, then there's no contest. of course the F6 is superior in every way and it's a big compromise not having one. inside the car though, when driving, the difference in noise is much less than outside. so one could argue that unless you're trying to impress passers by, or your mates, it's not a deal breaker.
here's a video which mirrors my experience of trying both cars out back to back:
externally the 981 is majestic - there's no denying it. but inside, for me at least, it's a different story.
and finally if we're talking ripping off, then i don't see how that's the case. i doubt a F4T (especially a brand new one) is any less expensive to make than the F6, and even if it is, the difference can't be that much. so how is it a rip off? a £70k S? you'd have to try pretty hard to get it to that and if you spec'ed an identical 981 would it be any different, particularly with the Cayman?
if we're talking about delayed response, do i need instant, maximum power and torque when i'm about to turn right? i'm sure the engine even without the turbo is plenty capable of making the turn in good time.
an overtake? drop a gear and accelerate much quicker than without the turbo. so that's safer.
the initial delay? well i can't argue against that but i'd rather have a bit of that occasionally, and have the additional punch when enjoying a spirited drive - and it really is a punch.
if we're talking noise and prestige, then there's no contest. of course the F6 is superior in every way and it's a big compromise not having one. inside the car though, when driving, the difference in noise is much less than outside. so one could argue that unless you're trying to impress passers by, or your mates, it's not a deal breaker.
here's a video which mirrors my experience of trying both cars out back to back:
externally the 981 is majestic - there's no denying it. but inside, for me at least, it's a different story.
and finally if we're talking ripping off, then i don't see how that's the case. i doubt a F4T (especially a brand new one) is any less expensive to make than the F6, and even if it is, the difference can't be that much. so how is it a rip off? a £70k S? you'd have to try pretty hard to get it to that and if you spec'ed an identical 981 would it be any different, particularly with the Cayman?
Edited by JasonSteel on Sunday 3rd July 14:32
Carl_Manchester said:
I think the apathy is down to the fact that the Boxster was almost perfect. You had to jump to the 458 Sp in order to beat the experience and even then, the Boxster had better daily usability. It was consistently, the best reviewed car in the world with the exception of the 458 coupe.
Fast forward back into 2016 and you would need to be seriously convinced by the 718s engine to lay down £70k for one, many remain unconvinced no matter how improved the rest of the car is.
I can't see anyway out of this for Porsche until they offer a F6 engine as a 718 GTS. If they offer a F4 as part of the GTS package thats the 718 concept dead for me personally.
Carl - any ideas when we are likely to find out if the 718 GTS will be naturally aspirated or turboed?Fast forward back into 2016 and you would need to be seriously convinced by the 718s engine to lay down £70k for one, many remain unconvinced no matter how improved the rest of the car is.
I can't see anyway out of this for Porsche until they offer a F6 engine as a 718 GTS. If they offer a F4 as part of the GTS package thats the 718 concept dead for me personally.
Base Boxsters are great value - both in the "ordinary" and "S" versions. My 981 S cost less than £50k on the road.
To my mind, the "ordinary" Boxster with enhanced turbo torque must be an absolute bargain at £42k. I reckon they'll be selling boatloads of PDKs from £43.5k, PDK being a good match with the new engine.
It really isn't necessary to hang £20k of extras onto a Boxster but if buyers are happy to do that it's very much up to them. After all, you can get into a 911 from £76k.
To my mind, the "ordinary" Boxster with enhanced turbo torque must be an absolute bargain at £42k. I reckon they'll be selling boatloads of PDKs from £43.5k, PDK being a good match with the new engine.
It really isn't necessary to hang £20k of extras onto a Boxster but if buyers are happy to do that it's very much up to them. After all, you can get into a 911 from £76k.
Carl_Manchester said:
I think the apathy is down to the fact that the Boxster was almost perfect. You had to jump to the 458 Sp in order to beat the experience and even then, the Boxster had better daily usability. It was consistently, the best reviewed car in the world with the exception of the 458 coupe.
Fast forward back into 2016 and you would need to be seriously convinced by the 718s engine to lay down £70k for one, many remain unconvinced no matter how improved the rest of the car is.
I can't see anyway out of this for Porsche until they offer a F6 engine as a 718 GTS. If they offer a F4 as part of the GTS package thats the 718 concept dead for me personally.
Completely agree on all accounts.Fast forward back into 2016 and you would need to be seriously convinced by the 718s engine to lay down £70k for one, many remain unconvinced no matter how improved the rest of the car is.
I can't see anyway out of this for Porsche until they offer a F6 engine as a 718 GTS. If they offer a F4 as part of the GTS package thats the 718 concept dead for me personally.
bigtime said:
Carl - any ideas when we are likely to find out if the 718 GTS will be naturally aspirated or turboed?
Porsche stated that their Flat-4 is capable of 400 bhp. That was a year ago when the news around the the 4-cylinder first came to light. I think the plan is (or was?) for the GTS to get a 380 bhp flat four.In an ideal world we'd get a detuned turbo flat six in the GTS and a N/A flat six in the 718 GT4. The latter seems more likely than the former.
Personally I am not interested in a 718 with a flat four until they add a decent hybrid system.
I think we were told that F6 Turbo does not fit and I doubt the car would cope well with the heat even if it did.
I don't think F6 NA has been confirmed as not fitting, unless I have missed something.
Fingers crossed we might hear something towards the end of the year although, it would not surprise me that the standard boxster with almost no options represents good value for money, it always has.
Carl_Manchester said:
I think we were told that F6 Turbo does not fit and I doubt the car would cope well with the heat even if it did.
I don't think F6 NA has been confirmed as not fitting, unless I have missed something.
F6 NA has been confirmed as fitting.I don't think F6 NA has been confirmed as not fitting, unless I have missed something.
I know they said that they can't fit a F6T but it wouldn't be the first time that Porsche claims something just to make marketing efforts a bit easier.
They also claimed the GT3 engine would have too much torque and rev too quick for a manual gearbox, now the 991R is out with an extra .2L displacement and the next GT3 is rumoured to use the same engine/gearbox.
I'm fairly confident that they could fit the F6T into the 718 if they wanted to. It's very unlikely to happen unless 718 sales turn out to be abysmal, which they wont because the majority of the buyers just wants a quick car that looks good and has the Porsche badges.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Yes, and if they sacrifice the rear boot there's plenty of room to cool a 6-pot turbo, although I'm not expecting to see one of those anytime soon!As we have seen from the thread with a guy fitting a turbocharged Audi engine into a Boxster, cooling and related plumbing is a challenge.
HighwayStar said:
JasonSteel said:
HighwayStar said:
It's ok not to get it or not even care but... It's the sort of thing that matters to some Cayster owners,
More than low down torque, being quicker than a GT4 or simply just quicker.
The 718 is clearly not a rubbish car, just to some it's all that and less.
i do get it and fully appreciate what you're saying but earlier we were discussing specifically the delayed throttle response from the turbo. we weren't discussing noise or other aspects of the engine.More than low down torque, being quicker than a GT4 or simply just quicker.
The 718 is clearly not a rubbish car, just to some it's all that and less.
so i was just pointing out that when driving enthusiastically, turbo lag isn't an issue as revs will be higher. and it doesn't matter when trundling along either because you're just trundling along.
the 981 isn't great at low revs either, which is one of the reasons why i used the term 'double standards'.
I have the money and I thought the need for the new car but for me the old one is better and I'm not parting with £140k of pre tax income for a new one until it is tangibly better than the one I'm currently driving.
Quicker is not an issue. Pleasure is.
JasonSteel said:
there are some perfectly valid points being made, but others that are a bit more subjective rather than objective.
if we're talking about delayed response, do i need instant, maximum power and torque when i'm about to turn right? i'm sure the engine even without the turbo is plenty capable of making the turn in good time.
an overtake? drop a gear and accelerate much quicker than without the turbo. so that's safer.
the initial delay? well i can't argue against that but i'd rather have a bit of that occasionally, and have the additional punch when enjoying a spirited drive - and it really is a punch.
if we're talking noise and prestige, then there's no contest. of course the F6 is superior in every way and it's a big compromise not having one. inside the car though, when driving, the difference in noise is much less than outside. so one could argue that unless you're trying to impress passers by, or your mates, it's not a deal breaker.
here's a video which mirrors my experience of trying both cars out back to back:
externally the 981 is majestic - there's no denying it. but inside, for me at least, it's a different story.
and finally if we're talking ripping off, then i don't see how that's the case. i doubt a F4T (especially a brand new one) is any less expensive to make than the F6, and even if it is, the difference can't be that much. so how is it a rip off? a £70k S? you'd have to try pretty hard to get it to that and if you spec'ed an identical 981 would it be any different, particularly with the Cayman?
Maximum power to turn right? Noooo, never said it. Never mentioned it... I'm talking about those moments from standstill when you want to nip into the traffic etc.. That nothing, that moments no mans land of lag, just when you want instant go.if we're talking about delayed response, do i need instant, maximum power and torque when i'm about to turn right? i'm sure the engine even without the turbo is plenty capable of making the turn in good time.
an overtake? drop a gear and accelerate much quicker than without the turbo. so that's safer.
the initial delay? well i can't argue against that but i'd rather have a bit of that occasionally, and have the additional punch when enjoying a spirited drive - and it really is a punch.
if we're talking noise and prestige, then there's no contest. of course the F6 is superior in every way and it's a big compromise not having one. inside the car though, when driving, the difference in noise is much less than outside. so one could argue that unless you're trying to impress passers by, or your mates, it's not a deal breaker.
here's a video which mirrors my experience of trying both cars out back to back:
externally the 981 is majestic - there's no denying it. but inside, for me at least, it's a different story.
and finally if we're talking ripping off, then i don't see how that's the case. i doubt a F4T (especially a brand new one) is any less expensive to make than the F6, and even if it is, the difference can't be that much. so how is it a rip off? a £70k S? you'd have to try pretty hard to get it to that and if you spec'ed an identical 981 would it be any different, particularly with the Cayman?
Edited by JasonSteel on Sunday 3rd July 14:32
Of course it's all personal preference. The extra mid range performance and top speed I can live without.
Edited by HighwayStar on Monday 4th July 00:43
Urowho said:
I have the money and I thought the need for the new car but for me the old one is better and I'm not parting with £140k of pre tax income for a new one until it is tangibly better than the one I'm currently driving..
The 718S has a faster steering rack, beefed up brakes, an improved suspension set up and, remarkably, an Infotainment system that looks like it was designed for the 21st century. If the above does not represent a tangible improvement over your 10 year old Cayman then it looks like I am wasting my £60K. As far as i am concerned the only department where the 718 loses out to previous models is the engine sound and a small amount of turbo lag. For what it is worth, a sports car for me is about speed and handling and at last the Cayman has enough of the former so that it can see off those pesky hot hatches 
Ozzie Osmond said:
Urowho said:
£70k for sensible spec.
IMO you've got to be a bit of a muppet to pay £70k for a £45k car. Spending £50k on a car and having it in utter poverty spec is a bit weird. These are £60-70k cars once made whole.
Some people don't care about engine character or throttle response, which is fine. I've no idea why they would buy a Porsche if they want speed and practicality, though. Much better with a hot hatch or Audi of some kind.
Some people don't care about engine character or throttle response, which is fine. I've no idea why they would buy a Porsche if they want speed and practicality, though. Much better with a hot hatch or Audi of some kind.
Ozzie Osmond said:
ORD said:
Spending £50k on a car and having it in utter poverty spec is a bit weird.
Some of us buy our cars for the joy of driving - if you find the concept weird that's fine by me! 
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff