Selling - prep it or discount the price?

Selling - prep it or discount the price?

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Discussion

HardtopManual

Original Poster:

2,404 posts

165 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
I've been toying with the idea of selling my F355 for a while now, mainly because I'm not driving it much anymore. I've spent a lot of time out of the country and it last saw a road when I went for the MoT last summer, which is shameful.

It's not in great condition cosmetically - wheels need a refurb, leather seats look a bit tired and the cracked buttresses and multitude of stonechips mean that it essentially needs a respray to bring it up to A1 condition. It's also due cambelts.

My question is, would you see to all those items before selling, in the hope of seeing a larger return than your outlay, or would you sell at a discounted price that reflects the vehicle condition? The former makes me worried about sinking a large amount of money into the car, the latter gives me concerns about difficulty selling - I've never sold a junior supercar before.

Nano2nd

3,426 posts

255 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
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surely in the current market a manual berlinetta would be worth making the investment in to bring it up to scratch? i guess it depends how much someone will pay in the current "state" and whether you can be bothered with the agro of getting the bits done - sounds like £10-20k of work to do properly?

belfry

930 posts

181 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
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A potential buyer travelled 3 hours yesterday to view my Ferrari 360. He didn't ask to see the full Ferrari service history, he didn't have a test drive he admired the unblemished paintwork, but he said that he won't be buying the car 30 seconds after he opened the engine cover. "I will never buy a car if I can't eat my dinner off the engine".

I haven't had the engine bay detailed as I always prefer to see the car in as original condition as possible.

So maybe you will put off buyers by not presenting the car at it's best.

_Superleggera_

2,003 posts

196 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
Sort the car out. Then you will get top money for it.

Otherwise a new owner will buy it cheap from you and do the work and reap the benefits if they sell it on.

red_duke

799 posts

180 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
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belfry said:
I haven't had the engine bay detailed as I always prefer to see the car in as original condition as possible..
The engine was clean when it originally left the factory and it's not difficult to keep it that way. Sorry, I'm with the potential buyer on this one. If you can't be bothered to do something as simple as clean the engine he''ll probably be wondering what else has been neglected during your ownership.

Ferruccio

1,832 posts

118 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
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red_duke said:
belfry said:
I haven't had the engine bay detailed as I always prefer to see the car in as original condition as possible..
The engine was clean when it originally left the factory and it's not difficult to keep it that way. Sorry, I'm with the potential buyer on this one. If you can't be bothered to do something as simple as clean the engine he''ll probably be wondering what else has been neglected during your ownership.
It's an engine bay, not a kitchen.

DoubleD

22,154 posts

107 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
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A cleaned engine can hide crash damage work. Much better to view a car with the engine bay looking original.

AOK

2,297 posts

165 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
As a rule of thumb, I'd always suggest selling 'as is' and pricing the work into the selling price.

You could spend £15k doing it up, giving it a service, repainting it, re-leathering etc etc and put it for £90k and it will be sitting amongst plenty of other ones in the same price bracket, fighting for attention (88 adverts on PH at the moment). There are still people who have an issue buying cars at this level privately, so would prefer paying a bit more through a dealer, or would consider buying privately, but end up negotiating hard. Also test drives, payment concerns etc etc.. its a huge faff...

You could just leave it 'as is' and put it for £79,995... phone will ring, you'll probably sell it quick and probably to a dealer or trader who will be able to get the work done at trade cost and stick it up for £90-95k themselves. And if a naive speculative private buyer comes up (trawling the classifieds for well priced one, unaware of how much things cost to put right) they might come see it, think it will only cost a grand or two to put right and snap it up. Likewise, someone (like me) might prefer to buy one to actually drive rather than add to a collection and won't mind the cosmetic issues. So they would be happier saving £10k and add that to their war chest for future mechanical work (and/or cosmetic upkeep in time).

I don't know any of the particulars of your car, so the figures I've used above are completely arbitrary, but I think the differences between them are quite accurate.


AOK

2,297 posts

165 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
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Oh, and another point - I know there are horror stories out there so tread carefully, but doing a Sale or Return (SOR) really lets you 'have your cake and eat it'. You just need to ensue you use someone reputable.

Plenty of specialists have really slashed their SOR rates in the last few years (recently sold a car through someone I know who took a £1,500 cut.. which worked out to about 3%)! But the car was mint, I'm not sure how it works on cars which need preparation spending, i.e. who would pay for it.

Nano2nd

3,426 posts

255 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
AOK said:
As a rule of thumb, I'd always suggest selling 'as is' and pricing the work into the selling price.

You could spend £15k doing it up, giving it a service, repainting it, re-leathering etc etc and put it for £90k and it will be sitting amongst plenty of other ones in the same price bracket, fighting for attention (88 adverts on PH at the moment). There are still people who have an issue buying cars at this level privately, so would prefer paying a bit more through a dealer, or would consider buying privately, but end up negotiating hard. Also test drives, payment concerns etc etc.. its a huge faff...

You could just leave it 'as is' and put it for £79,995... phone will ring, you'll probably sell it quick and probably to a dealer or trader who will be able to get the work done at trade cost and stick it up for £90-95k themselves. And if a naive speculative private buyer comes up (trawling the classifieds for well priced one, unaware of how much things cost to put right) they might come see it, think it will only cost a grand or two to put right and snap it up. Likewise, someone (like me) might prefer to buy one to actually drive rather than add to a collection and won't mind the cosmetic issues. So they would be happier saving £10k and add that to their war chest for future mechanical work (and/or cosmetic upkeep in time).

I don't know any of the particulars of your car, so the figures I've used above are completely arbitrary, but I think the differences between them are quite accurate.
a dealers gonna be offering him closer to £40k than £80k!

Nano2nd

3,426 posts

255 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
belfry said:
he said that he won't be buying the car 30 seconds after he opened the engine cover. "I will never buy a car if I can't eat my dinner off the engine".
sounds like a time-waster to me! if that was one of his main requirements why didn't be ask if the engine was "eat my dinner" off it clean? or a hi-res pic?

ClaphamGT3

11,269 posts

242 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
AOK said:
As a rule of thumb, I'd always suggest selling 'as is' and pricing the work into the selling price.

You could spend £15k doing it up, giving it a service, repainting it, re-leathering etc etc and put it for £90k and it will be sitting amongst plenty of other ones in the same price bracket, fighting for attention (88 adverts on PH at the moment). There are still people who have an issue buying cars at this level privately, so would prefer paying a bit more through a dealer, or would consider buying privately, but end up negotiating hard. Also test drives, payment concerns etc etc.. its a huge faff...

You could just leave it 'as is' and put it for £79,995... phone will ring, you'll probably sell it quick and probably to a dealer or trader who will be able to get the work done at trade cost and stick it up for £90-95k themselves. And if a naive speculative private buyer comes up (trawling the classifieds for well priced one, unaware of how much things cost to put right) they might come see it, think it will only cost a grand or two to put right and snap it up. Likewise, someone (like me) might prefer to buy one to actually drive rather than add to a collection and won't mind the cosmetic issues. So they would be happier saving £10k and add that to their war chest for future mechanical work (and/or cosmetic upkeep in time).

I don't know any of the particulars of your car, so the figures I've used above are completely arbitrary, but I think the differences between them are quite accurate.
I'm with this. Also, over-detailed cars make me nervous - they wipe away too many clues about how the car has really been used

belfry

930 posts

181 months

Sunday 22nd May 2016
quotequote all
red_duke said:
The engine was clean when it originally left the factory and it's not difficult to keep it that way. Sorry, I'm with the potential buyer on this one. If you can't be bothered to do something as simple as clean the engine he''ll probably be wondering what else has been neglected during your ownership.
That was his thinking. I prefer to rely on a inch thick history file with full Ferrari history! He didn't ask to look at that.

johnnyreggae

2,930 posts

159 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
quotequote all
AOK said:
As a rule of thumb, I'd always suggest selling 'as is' and pricing the work into the selling price.

Likewise, someone (like me) might prefer to buy one to actually drive rather than add to a collection and won't mind the cosmetic issues.
Just be realistic on the hit - its possible to halve an allegedly immaculate low mileage eighty or ninety grand dealer car's cost even on a private sale given your description of your car (for example knock off ten grand paint ten grand retailer ten grand interior ten grand high mileage) and, most importantly, for both sides to be happy

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Monday 23rd May 2016
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rubystone said:
Prep the car properly. it won't cost a fortune and you'll feel much better about selling it. You'll massively widen your market too. Most buyers want to jump straight into a car and use it, enjoy it and show it off. But if you want £40k for it, drop me a pm and I'll buy it, prep it and flip it smile

Anjum

1,605 posts

283 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
HardtopManual said:
I've been toying with the idea of selling my F355 for a while now, mainly because I'm not driving it much anymore. I've spent a lot of time out of the country and it last saw a road when I went for the MoT last summer, which is shameful.

It's not in great condition cosmetically - wheels need a refurb, leather seats look a bit tired and the cracked buttresses and multitude of stonechips mean that it essentially needs a respray to bring it up to A1 condition. It's also due cambelts.

My question is, would you see to all those items before selling, in the hope of seeing a larger return than your outlay, or would you sell at a discounted price that reflects the vehicle condition? The former makes me worried about sinking a large amount of money into the car, the latter gives me concerns about difficulty selling - I've never sold a junior supercar before.
It's a difficult one. I personally would not buy a car that is the condition that you describe. That includes the wheels, bodywork, paint and the interior. If I came up to see the car (rightly or wrongly) I would get the impression that it's been run on a budget and would run away. If your car is your pride and joy - treat it like it is. If you don't care - then sell it to someone who will spend the time and money to restore it to its former glory and set the price accordingly. I do get that the car is 20 years old and like a bit of patina - but if it really is as tired as it sounds - better tell the other half she's not getting that new kitchen just yet......

Mario149

7,750 posts

177 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
My 2p: you won't get the money back IMO. Do the bare minimum so that it doesn't look too tragic, then price accordingly, put all the info and reasons in the ad and emphasis mechanical history and maintenance. I think 355s are massively overpriced at the moment (there are 80+ for sale on PH alone hehe) and even if they weren't, they still wouldn't be at the stage where you could thrown £10-£20k at one for cosmetic work and get it all back, let alone make a profit, as a private seller. Plus there's the faff of having all the work sorted, ensuring it's done to a high standard etc.

Sheetmaself

5,663 posts

197 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
I like the car to be clean and the interior but if the engine were spotless id be thinking your hiding an oil leak or similar to be honest. Just goes to show were all different so there is no right answer therefore do what suits you.

rubystone

11,252 posts

258 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
Mario149 said:
My 2p: you won't get the money back IMO. Do the bare minimum so that it doesn't look too tragic, then price accordingly, put all the info and reasons in the ad and emphasis mechanical history and maintenance. I think 355s are massively overpriced at the moment (there are 80+ for sale on PH alone hehe) and even if they weren't, they still wouldn't be at the stage where you could thrown £10-£20k at one for cosmetic work and get it all back, let alone make a profit, as a private seller. Plus there's the faff of having all the work sorted, ensuring it's done to a high standard etc.
He won't sell it if he doesn't prep it properly. The current market is moving towards quality. If he sorts all the problems properly he will have a far better chance of selling. Otherwise it'll sit around for ages and someone on an Internet site will then question why he hadn't sold it and before he knows it, the rumour will spread that the last owner was Dennis Nielson or Fred West.

Eta...my £40k offer still stands. I'm free tomorrow and can be round there with the cash before noon.... smile

Mario149

7,750 posts

177 months

Tuesday 24th May 2016
quotequote all
rubystone said:
Mario149 said:
My 2p: you won't get the money back IMO. Do the bare minimum so that it doesn't look too tragic, then price accordingly, put all the info and reasons in the ad and emphasis mechanical history and maintenance. I think 355s are massively overpriced at the moment (there are 80+ for sale on PH alone hehe) and even if they weren't, they still wouldn't be at the stage where you could thrown £10-£20k at one for cosmetic work and get it all back, let alone make a profit, as a private seller. Plus there's the faff of having all the work sorted, ensuring it's done to a high standard etc.
He won't sell it if he doesn't prep it properly. The current market is moving towards quality. If he sorts all the problems properly he will have a far better chance of selling. Otherwise it'll sit around for ages and someone on an Internet site will then question why he hadn't sold it and before he knows it, the rumour will spread that the last owner was Dennis Nielson or Fred West.

Eta...my £40k offer still stands. I'm free tomorrow and can be round there with the cash before noon.... smile
The way I see it is: spend all the money to make it cosmetically perfect, sell quick, don't get your money back. Or, do some work on it but don't go to town, sell slower but don't lose any any cash and net more. Depends on what your priority is, speed or money. Given that the OP has another 355 in the garage already it seems, I'd argue the latter is a priority. Arguably, given the inflated market, a cheaper car will get far more attention than the SOR dreamers. I mean how many people know someone that has paid these top whack asking prices for a 355? I'd wager not many.