Top Gear's Review of the 718 Cayman ...

[Adam B]

ATM said:

Surely this is a different discussion involving rear wheel steer?

You lost me, it was originally about the new turbo Cayman, which inevitably got on to the main issue (the use of turbos). I was just pointing out that, whilst disappointing, the new turbo Porsche range wouldn't put me off buying one (albeit a 991S not a Cayman as I need rear seats)

no one mentioned 4WS

[ATM]

Adam B said:

ATM said:

Surely this is a different discussion involving rear wheel steer?

You lost me, it was originally about the new turbo Cayman, which inevitably got on to the main issue (the use of turbos). I was just pointing out that, whilst disappointing, the new turbo Porsche range wouldn't put me off buying one (albeit a 991S not a Cayman as I need rear seats)

no one mentioned 4WS

Yes

I mentioned it.

Because you mentioned a Turbo 991S. I thought these now have 4ws.

[Adam B]

Aha

no I mentioned a "turboed 991S" not a 991 turbo S

or to be clearer a 991 Carrera S which, like the 718 hence me mentioing it, now use turbos

[ATM]

Adam B said:

Aha

no I mentioned a "turboed 991S" not a 991 turbo S

or to be clearer a 991 Carrera S which, like the 718 hence me mentioing it, now use turbos

I think the new Forced Induction vanilla 991.2 has 4ws.

[edo]

FourPotPorsche said:

I think the last paragraph of Car and Driver's review sums up the feelings being expressed both here on PH and by the journos:

The engineers behind the new Cayman S should be proud. It’s demonstrably better than its predecessor in pretty much every measurable metric. It’s only when we come to the less quantifiable matter of soul that we have to report continued concern. Sports cars aren’t bought for the same rational criteria as minivans, and we’ll fully understand if you’re planning to cryogenically preserve a late-period 3.4-liter Cayman S as your personal apogee of the modern sports car. But the 718 is a compelling reason to be cheerful about the future.

Full review here: http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/2017-porsche-7...

I am pretty cheerful that mine is arriving in October.

ditto. it's CHANGE again, air to water cooling, electric power steering, turbo-charging etc.

I didnt find the sound offensive at all, but noise isnt as far up there on my list as it is for other people.

[JLZ78]

ATM said:

I think the new Forced Induction vanilla 991.2 has 4ws.

Only if you spec it.

[bcr5784]

ATM said:

I think the new Forced Induction vanilla 991.2 has 4ws.

4WS is not even an option on the base Carrera and only an option on the S.

[Twinfan]

Well said sir. I agree completely.

[bcr5784]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

Rather simplistic and doesn't always apply. It really depends on what the ECU does with the throttle when you (the driver) lifts. If the ECU keeps the throttle open but cuts the ignition (as I understand the 718 does in Sport + at least) when changing gear then the turbo will keep spinning and there will be no lag. And, in any case, with PDK upshifts are executed so fast that any loss of turbo boost will be minimal.

Turbo diesels suffer far less from lag precisely because they have no throttle as such, and therefore engine speed is the only thing which affects available turbo boost.

[ATM]

bcr5784 said:

Turbo diesels suffer far less from lag precisely because they have no throttle as such

I didn't know this.

[RMJ891]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I thought this was not the case, by virtue of a combo of the variable turbine geometry and the system from the 911 Turbo that keeps the turbo spinning when off the throttle?

In any event my main point is that people are over-stating the negative effects of a turbo on the 718. Many F1 and other experienced race drivers have said that the power delivery in a Ferrari 488 is linear and that any lag is basically undetectable, so there is engineering that can be done that means "turbo always equals lag and lumpy power delivery"... and for the price I'd say the 718 S models are pretty damn close (particularly, as you say, if you can simply modulate the throttle to all but negate lag).

Just my thoughts, of course.

[bcr5784]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

That's why turbo lag is going to be an issue to you far more than to the majority of Porsche owners - who choose PDK and obviously don't regard it as ghastly. On the 991.2 (unlike the 2 litre 718) with PDK you simply don't notice lag most of the time.

[RMJ891]

anonymous said:

[redacted]

I'm not sure I'll take your word for it that you aren't a fan of overstatement when you say "PDK is ghastly". It just isn't - you may not like it, but it just isn't.

Not sure we're going to get anywhere here. Also not sure how you can drive anything apart from a Caterham or a kart if you find all those cars so abhorrent.

[bcr5784]

RMJ891 said:

I thought this was not the case, by virtue of a combo of the variable turbine geometry and the system from the 911 Turbo that keeps the turbo spinning when off the throttle?

Yes that is the case, I believe, although with the 718 in Sport the throttle is closed so that you get the farts and pops that some seem to like.

[Timbola]

More reviews appearing in the last few days.

Quite an in depth one from Carfection.

Chap REALLY didn't like the engine note of the new F4T.

But liked everything else. Calls it the 'almost' car.

[FourPotPorsche]

That Top Gear magazine guy Ollie Marriage is dissing my car again...

http://www.topgear.com/car-news/six-things-we-lear...

He really doesn't like it!

[Twinfan]

I'm looking forward to the 718 vs 981 review he's promising...

[FourPotPorsche]

Well I think we all know to which model he will award the win.

[Twinfan]

Indeed, but back to back comparisons will be interesting.

[Klippie]

The 718 will wipe the floor with the 981 its more powerful and has more torque can't argue with numbers I'am afraid, it will come out top in every performance and handling test that can be thrown at it.

Unfortunately its not a car for the enthusiast minority its designed to shift metal, most potential buyers won't give a flying fk what it sounds like, looks like or how well it drives and that's the real shame as these people dictate what Porsche builds these days, we all want the polar opposite and have no chance ever seeing that from now on so we are stuck with our 987's and 981's which is not a bad thing as they are great cars anyway.