Top Gear's Review of the 718 Cayman ...
Discussion
Those graphs equate perfectly to what I felt in the 718.
Porsche say the car delivers peak torque from 1500 rpm or whatever, but it doesn't do that until the boost has built.
Slow for a roundabout, see nobody is coming, 15 mph - 2nd gear. Somebody appears quicker than you expected, boot the throttle.. Pray, wait a couple of seconds, catapult forward.
Just like any 2L Diesel I have driven, horrible.
Porsche say the car delivers peak torque from 1500 rpm or whatever, but it doesn't do that until the boost has built.
Slow for a roundabout, see nobody is coming, 15 mph - 2nd gear. Somebody appears quicker than you expected, boot the throttle.. Pray, wait a couple of seconds, catapult forward.
Just like any 2L Diesel I have driven, horrible.
That echos my thoughts and experience too. But I don't really like turbos as a rule. My Impreza I mentioned was a vary quick car and was a JDM twin-scroll turbo 2 litre engine - there was always a delay between hitting the throttle and what you wanted to happen. You adjust to it and it was a case of giving it full throttle before you thought you wanted it, but that's not as satisfying as an NA experience with good throttle response and did lead to the odd 4 wheel drift when I got the delay a bit wrong...
Accepting the lag, I think the comparison with an old GTi is a slightly misleading one (which I once owned). Back in the day (probably because economy wasn't a big issue) plenty of cars had better throttle response than the current NA Cayman (which is overrated and nothing very special imo). I haven't seen a figure for response delay for the NA 6 but if you look here http://blog.caranddriver.com/turbo-vs-non-turbo-pu... you'll see that for a Camaro the throttle delay is half a second or so anyway - no different to a Mustang turbo at highish revs with which it is being compared - and much the same as the 991.2.
The other thing to note is that, in comparison to the 2L base 718 the 911.2 has
a) 50% more displacement and therefore torque OFF boost
b) Has less boost and therefore the difference between OFF and ON boost is much less.
The net result is that on the 991.2 lag is far less noticeable than than on a 2L 718. For me that translates into an engine that (relative to NA alternatives) I find unacceptable in the 2L 718, but one that I actually prefer in the case of the 911.2.
The other thing to note is that, in comparison to the 2L base 718 the 911.2 has
a) 50% more displacement and therefore torque OFF boost
b) Has less boost and therefore the difference between OFF and ON boost is much less.
The net result is that on the 991.2 lag is far less noticeable than than on a 2L 718. For me that translates into an engine that (relative to NA alternatives) I find unacceptable in the 2L 718, but one that I actually prefer in the case of the 911.2.
Edited by bcr5784 on Wednesday 20th July 21:14
Edited by bcr5784 on Thursday 21st July 08:10
PaulD86 said:
Just to add my thoughts. Not a chance my Cayman R will ever be swapped for one of the new turbo offerings - I'll stick to older stuff or change brand.
Why? I took out a 718 Boxster after my local dealer said it was free and I should try it.
The good: Steering - The front end feels so much more inspiring and like it wants to lent on. Brakes - avoid the popular trap of being ridiculously over assisted and instead have some feel. Interior - lovely place to be.
The indifferent: Ride/suspension - perhaps a perverse criticism here but it's just too refined. I like a sports car that feels like a sports car. The 718 is just too compliant for me. It masks a feedback of the road surface and instead gives you the sort of ride you'd want of a family saloon car. For everyday use this may be ideal for people, but to me it makes the car feel less special. Gearbox - I drove a manual and it's a lovely box to operate but, as with all new Porsche, it is completely ruined by idiotically long gear ratios. It will hit NSL in 2nd, over 100 in 3rd.
The above sounds as much like a description of the 981. Although with the multitude of different suspension and tyre wall options it's hard to be sure. I'd suspect that the 718 feel is very similar to the 981.Why? I took out a 718 Boxster after my local dealer said it was free and I should try it.
The good: Steering - The front end feels so much more inspiring and like it wants to lent on. Brakes - avoid the popular trap of being ridiculously over assisted and instead have some feel. Interior - lovely place to be.
The indifferent: Ride/suspension - perhaps a perverse criticism here but it's just too refined. I like a sports car that feels like a sports car. The 718 is just too compliant for me. It masks a feedback of the road surface and instead gives you the sort of ride you'd want of a family saloon car. For everyday use this may be ideal for people, but to me it makes the car feel less special. Gearbox - I drove a manual and it's a lovely box to operate but, as with all new Porsche, it is completely ruined by idiotically long gear ratios. It will hit NSL in 2nd, over 100 in 3rd.
Driving 718S manual last week I felt no difference in steering to my 981 2.7 PDK.
Can't comment on the "lag at roundabout" thought above as that situation didn't arise, but in 50k miles of driving my wife's A3 2.0 Tdi 140 I can't recall any situations where the engine has bogged down when wanting power at low revs whereas in 18k miles in my TTS I can.
Is there perhaps some reason a diesel turbo reacts more quickly than a petrol one? Lack of back pressure from a diesel engine keeping the turbo spinning springs to mind, but then they also operate at lower engine RPM.
Maybe I've just been lucky?
Can't comment on the "lag at roundabout" thought above as that situation didn't arise, but in 50k miles of driving my wife's A3 2.0 Tdi 140 I can't recall any situations where the engine has bogged down when wanting power at low revs whereas in 18k miles in my TTS I can.
Is there perhaps some reason a diesel turbo reacts more quickly than a petrol one? Lack of back pressure from a diesel engine keeping the turbo spinning springs to mind, but then they also operate at lower engine RPM.
Maybe I've just been lucky?
DJMC said:
Driving 718S manual last week I felt no difference in steering to my 981 2.7 PDK.
Is there perhaps some reason a diesel turbo reacts more quickly than a petrol one? Lack of back pressure from a diesel engine keeping the turbo spinning springs to mind, but then they also operate at lower engine RPM.
Diesels don't have a "throttle" as such (power is governed solely by injecting more diesel in) so when you lift off the turbo keeps spinning at undiminished speed. So once the turbo is spun up there will be no lag until such time as you drop the revs below the engine revs needed to keep the turbo up to speed - perhaps as little as 1500rpm.Is there perhaps some reason a diesel turbo reacts more quickly than a petrol one? Lack of back pressure from a diesel engine keeping the turbo spinning springs to mind, but then they also operate at lower engine RPM.
Edited by bcr5784 on Saturday 30th July 13:49
Autocar Express have a new review up of the 718 Cayman.
Fairly glowing review.
As with all reviews, the aural character of the F4T is addressed, and not too negatively ...
But now we must address the elephant in the room: the noise. Much has been said about what this turbo flat four lacks over its wailing predecessor, but it’d be unfair to suggest it dominates the driving experience. On a car as sweet as this, it’s hard to get hung up on the way it sounds. It’s a bassier growl than before, but far from unpleasant.
And the review car they have is different to the Miami Blue or Lava Orange press cars that all other UK publications seem to have been provided with.
In this case, Graphite Blue, with Black Carrera S wheels, with a Blue & Crayon Sport Tex Interior. Must say the combination looks damn good ...
Fairly glowing review.
As with all reviews, the aural character of the F4T is addressed, and not too negatively ...
But now we must address the elephant in the room: the noise. Much has been said about what this turbo flat four lacks over its wailing predecessor, but it’d be unfair to suggest it dominates the driving experience. On a car as sweet as this, it’s hard to get hung up on the way it sounds. It’s a bassier growl than before, but far from unpleasant.
And the review car they have is different to the Miami Blue or Lava Orange press cars that all other UK publications seem to have been provided with.
In this case, Graphite Blue, with Black Carrera S wheels, with a Blue & Crayon Sport Tex Interior. Must say the combination looks damn good ...
Timbola said:
Autocar Express have a new review up of the 718 Cayman.
Fairly glowing review.
As with all reviews, the aural character of the F4T is addressed, and not too negatively ...
But now we must address the elephant in the room: the noise. Much has been said about what this turbo flat four lacks over its wailing predecessor, but it’d be unfair to suggest it dominates the driving experience. On a car as sweet as this, it’s hard to get hung up on the way it sounds. It’s a bassier growl than before, but far from unpleasant.
And the review car they have is different to the Miami Blue or Lava Orange press cars that all other UK publications seem to have been provided with.
In this case, Graphite Blue, with Black Carrera S wheels, with a Blue & Crayon Sport Tex Interior. Must say the combination looks damn good ...
NiceFairly glowing review.
As with all reviews, the aural character of the F4T is addressed, and not too negatively ...
But now we must address the elephant in the room: the noise. Much has been said about what this turbo flat four lacks over its wailing predecessor, but it’d be unfair to suggest it dominates the driving experience. On a car as sweet as this, it’s hard to get hung up on the way it sounds. It’s a bassier growl than before, but far from unpleasant.
And the review car they have is different to the Miami Blue or Lava Orange press cars that all other UK publications seem to have been provided with.
In this case, Graphite Blue, with Black Carrera S wheels, with a Blue & Crayon Sport Tex Interior. Must say the combination looks damn good ...
Do Porsche charge extra for Cloth trims now over Cow?
ATM said:
Nice
Do Porsche charge extra for Cloth trims now over Cow?
Indeed they do but it's 'part cow'. The idea of having cloth inserts or alcantara appeals to me. My last 3 cars have had cloth or alcantara and my latest car has part leather and guess which part has got evidence of wear? Yup, the cow part. The leatherette/alcantara i.e. standard option appeals to me but I guess everyone is looking for leather these days. I can see what the difference is between full leather and the other two options (no plastic/metal trim on the door) but I have absolutely no clue what the difference is between "Standard Interior / Leather Seats" and "Standard Interior with Leather Package / Partial Leather Seats" is other than on the partial leather option you get some more leather on the door and on the instrument cluster yet it's cheaper. I'm sure the sale folk will know.......Do Porsche charge extra for Cloth trims now over Cow?
The interior in the AE review car looks superb but it looks more black than blue on my monitor!!
On the subject of wheels, the reviewer in the AE article suggests opting for the 19" option. I take it he hasn't seen them? The standard 18/19 options on the base cars are rank and/or boring and the Boxster S 19's do nothing for me. I've seen them in the flesh and they looked okay. Carrera S has been overdone and the Carrera Classic aren't my cup of tea, leaving only the 20" new Carrera Sport option at £2300+. Quite frankly none of the wheels are spectacular looking and some are plain minging.
Positive review though.
ONtheROCS said:
ATM said:
Nice
Do Porsche charge extra for Cloth trims now over Cow?
Indeed they do but it's 'part cow'. The idea of having cloth inserts or alcantara appeals to me. My last 3 cars have had cloth or alcantara and my latest car has part leather and guess which part has got evidence of wear? Yup, the cow part. The leatherette/alcantara i.e. standard option appeals to me but I guess everyone is looking for leather these days. I can see what the difference is between full leather and the other two options (no plastic/metal trim on the door) but I have absolutely no clue what the difference is between "Standard Interior / Leather Seats" and "Standard Interior with Leather Package / Partial Leather Seats" is other than on the partial leather option you get some more leather on the door and on the instrument cluster yet it's cheaper. I'm sure the sale folk will know.......Do Porsche charge extra for Cloth trims now over Cow?
The interior in the AE review car looks superb but it looks more black than blue on my monitor!!
On the subject of wheels, the reviewer in the AE article suggests opting for the 19" option. I take it he hasn't seen them? The standard 18/19 options on the base cars are rank and/or boring and the Boxster S 19's do nothing for me. I've seen them in the flesh and they looked okay. Carrera S has been overdone and the Carrera Classic aren't my cup of tea, leaving only the 20" new Carrera Sport option at £2300+. Quite frankly none of the wheels are spectacular looking and some are plain minging.
Positive review though.
Nice, will have a read. Agree with another poster the external colour is a bit "undercoat".
I have gone for the SPort-Tex/Full leather in Black. Yes it isnt cheap but it brings full leather to dash top doors, seat sides etc, with the seat base centre/rear face in the tex stuff. Much nicer in winter and summer and breaks up the interior.
I have gone for the SPort-Tex/Full leather in Black. Yes it isnt cheap but it brings full leather to dash top doors, seat sides etc, with the seat base centre/rear face in the tex stuff. Much nicer in winter and summer and breaks up the interior.
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