718 Cayman Manual or PDK ?
Discussion
I found the clutch to be appallingly heavy on the old model, would never have bought a manual old model as a result. Got a PDK Boxster GTS a few months ago. My first non manual car was a mk7 Golf R with DSG which I've had for two years, it's taken me that long to accept the gearbox. I'll never love it, but I have to say that the PDK is a step up, not sure how they could improve it really. VW need to have a dip in the Porsche parts bucket.
Having said that, the comments about the 718 are encouraging wrt the manual clutch. Might make it a viable option again.
Having said that, the comments about the 718 are encouraging wrt the manual clutch. Might make it a viable option again.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Good grief. Wonder what you've been comparing it with? A 1,000cc Micra?
I've heard some nonsense in my time but that takes the biscuit.
Heavier than any car I've ever owned. So yes, heavy. And that's the worst nonsense you've ever heard? Think you might need to get out more.I've heard some nonsense in my time but that takes the biscuit.
I dont find the 981 clutch heavy at all...but did note the 718 to be a touch lighter (and i drove them back to back within 30 mins of each other)
Suspect the more often people drive auto,DSG,DCT,PDK etc daily then they are less likely to remember what a heavy or light clutch is like, i feel the whole auto box thing is uninviting, and for me blunts the driving experience, my personal opinion of course, but i get that they save C02/mpg, and shift a bit quicker, but it doesn't make me want to buy one.
As far as heavy clutches go my Jag E-type is very heavy (when compared to my M3, and Boxster, Audi TT etc) but it doesn't in any way spoil the driving experience, and its not as if i sit in city centres commuting in it, but even then i would simply just get used to it.
I also have been told that dealers and sales staff are being told to 'push' the PDK/Auto options by manufacturers which could explain the lack of manual cars to test drive, and Porsche dealers have no say in what Porsche sends them as a demo so i was told last week...hence the flood of PDK demos' ?
Andy
Suspect the more often people drive auto,DSG,DCT,PDK etc daily then they are less likely to remember what a heavy or light clutch is like, i feel the whole auto box thing is uninviting, and for me blunts the driving experience, my personal opinion of course, but i get that they save C02/mpg, and shift a bit quicker, but it doesn't make me want to buy one.
As far as heavy clutches go my Jag E-type is very heavy (when compared to my M3, and Boxster, Audi TT etc) but it doesn't in any way spoil the driving experience, and its not as if i sit in city centres commuting in it, but even then i would simply just get used to it.
I also have been told that dealers and sales staff are being told to 'push' the PDK/Auto options by manufacturers which could explain the lack of manual cars to test drive, and Porsche dealers have no say in what Porsche sends them as a demo so i was told last week...hence the flood of PDK demos' ?
Andy
Both gearboxes are the best in their respective types.
I had PDK on my 981S, and a 991GTS, and it's an awesome bit of kit that helps in the daily grind but it still great when pushing on.
I think the question is more how will the car be used? My 718 will be more of a weekend toy, so I am going manual which handily has saved a few pennies too.
I had PDK on my 981S, and a 991GTS, and it's an awesome bit of kit that helps in the daily grind but it still great when pushing on.
I think the question is more how will the car be used? My 718 will be more of a weekend toy, so I am going manual which handily has saved a few pennies too.
I drove the manual Boxster 718 but mainly on urban roads with 40/50 limit so did not really get chance to open up the car. Still uncertain as I am a little out of practice on manuals,( apart from driving wife's golf)pedal felt a little stiff and just wondering if will be harder on the S as this has further 50 Bhp. Would probably get used to this if drove more regularly.
The first and second gears were quite tall so felt a little less fluid to drive although not unpleasant as the engine even on base model has more than adequate torque.
Based on my extended test drive in the Boxster S PDK I think that the extra gear gives a bit more urgency to the driving experience along with the quicker shifts. I would mainly drive a PDK with the paddle shift.
This was not what I was expecting, I had expected to be wowed by the manual transmission (and 2k cheaper) so it shows the benefit of driving a car rather than relying on other peoples opinions and car reviews.
Incidentally the car had 20" rims on standard suspension set up and the ride was pretty good.
The first and second gears were quite tall so felt a little less fluid to drive although not unpleasant as the engine even on base model has more than adequate torque.
Based on my extended test drive in the Boxster S PDK I think that the extra gear gives a bit more urgency to the driving experience along with the quicker shifts. I would mainly drive a PDK with the paddle shift.
This was not what I was expecting, I had expected to be wowed by the manual transmission (and 2k cheaper) so it shows the benefit of driving a car rather than relying on other peoples opinions and car reviews.
Incidentally the car had 20" rims on standard suspension set up and the ride was pretty good.
Ozzie Osmond said:
PDK will undoubtedly give a quicker car and it will almost certainly be quicker in auto mode than with manual paddle shifting. It's all a question of whether you want an auto - there's not much point buying one unless you do.
Don't agree - not bothered about auto, just want faster smoother changes. I would choose Pdk even if there was no auto mode. There are lots of occasions when the box makes the wrong choice of gear - any decent driver can make better choices.
Ozzie Osmond said:
PDK will undoubtedly give a quicker car and it will almost certainly be quicker in auto mode than with manual paddle shifting. It's all a question of whether you want an auto - there's not much point buying one unless you do.
Don't agree - not bothered about auto, just want faster smoother changes. I would choose Pdk even if there was no auto mode. There are lots of occasions when the box makes the wrong choice of gear - any decent driver can make better choices.
I guess everyone has their style of driving.
I'm driving my first auto in my current M235i, having been convinced that the supposedly brilliant ZF 8-speed was the way to go. Unless cruising on the motorway, I'm always in manual mode with the paddles, and don't use the auto, same as you're suggesting.
I've not gelled with it at all. I dislike having so many short-ratio gears, and am pandering after a stick and clutch, with less gears of a longer-ratio.
I dislike not being able to select whichever gear I need without having to go through other gears to get there.
When obliged to slow down quickly, I find I have to frantically blip down through umpteen gears. With a normal manual I'll likely just clutch out of 5th or 6th, notch into 2nd, and temper normal braking with engine braking.
Same with the odd occasion of accelerating hard. I'll have fun blasting up to NSL 60 in 2nd, am at cruising speed, and may just want to clutch in and change up to sixth to cruise. Having to blip up through 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th just to get to 8th with the paddles annoys me.
Not being able to separate the engine from the drive-train with a clutch is also a loss. I want to be able to use the clutch to ease the power in, or to ease the effect of engine-braking in with a lower gear. I don't have that control without a clutch and feel a little bit handicapped with just the paddles.
In short, I've really lost an aspect of the joy of driving with using an auto in manual mode. And so will not tick the PDK option when locking down the 718 in a few weeks time.
Others have a very different style and enjoy what (semi-)autos bring to the table. Horses for courses.
I'm driving my first auto in my current M235i, having been convinced that the supposedly brilliant ZF 8-speed was the way to go. Unless cruising on the motorway, I'm always in manual mode with the paddles, and don't use the auto, same as you're suggesting.
I've not gelled with it at all. I dislike having so many short-ratio gears, and am pandering after a stick and clutch, with less gears of a longer-ratio.
I dislike not being able to select whichever gear I need without having to go through other gears to get there.
When obliged to slow down quickly, I find I have to frantically blip down through umpteen gears. With a normal manual I'll likely just clutch out of 5th or 6th, notch into 2nd, and temper normal braking with engine braking.
Same with the odd occasion of accelerating hard. I'll have fun blasting up to NSL 60 in 2nd, am at cruising speed, and may just want to clutch in and change up to sixth to cruise. Having to blip up through 3rd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th just to get to 8th with the paddles annoys me.
Not being able to separate the engine from the drive-train with a clutch is also a loss. I want to be able to use the clutch to ease the power in, or to ease the effect of engine-braking in with a lower gear. I don't have that control without a clutch and feel a little bit handicapped with just the paddles.
In short, I've really lost an aspect of the joy of driving with using an auto in manual mode. And so will not tick the PDK option when locking down the 718 in a few weeks time.
Others have a very different style and enjoy what (semi-)autos bring to the table. Horses for courses.
Edited by Timbola on Friday 12th August 08:41
bcr5784 said:
Don't agree - not bothered about auto, just want faster smoother changes. I would choose Pdk even if there was no auto mode. There are lots of occasions when the box makes the wrong choice of gear - any decent driver can make better choices.
Ask around and I think you'll find the majority of auto drivers say, "Leave it in auto, unless you want a manual downshift ready for overtaking." And in a car like a modern Porsche that can usually be achieved by the simple expedient of pushing the dreaded Sport button. 
Ozzie Osmond said:
bcr5784 said:
Don't agree - not bothered about auto, just want faster smoother changes. I would choose Pdk even if there was no auto mode. There are lots of occasions when the box makes the wrong choice of gear - any decent driver can make better choices.
Ask around and I think you'll find the majority of auto drivers say, "Leave it in auto, unless you want a manual downshift ready for overtaking." And in a car like a modern Porsche that can usually be achieved by the simple expedient of pushing the dreaded Sport button. I have the PDK in mine and to be honest, I always use it in manual with the sport button as I find the start stop features highly annoying. However, at the end of the day it's personal preference.
AndyCGTS said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
bcr5784 said:
Don't agree - not bothered about auto, just want faster smoother changes. I would choose Pdk even if there was no auto mode. There are lots of occasions when the box makes the wrong choice of gear - any decent driver can make better choices.
Ask around and I think you'll find the majority of auto drivers say, "Leave it in auto, unless you want a manual downshift ready for overtaking." And in a car like a modern Porsche that can usually be achieved by the simple expedient of pushing the dreaded Sport button. I have the PDK in mine and to be honest, I always use it in manual with the sport button as I find the start stop features highly annoying. However, at the end of the day it's personal preference.
I can understand why some don't like sequential boxes-but for those who ride bikes too they are as normal as H pattern ones.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Too right! My car's had surgery so that start/stop is disabled in all modes (unless I choose to activate it).
All I need now is the "manual handbrake conversion kit". If only.....
Is surgery required? You only need to press the disable start stop button. I'm surprised if that isn't remembered across other switch offs as other modes are. No All I need now is the "manual handbrake conversion kit". If only.....
Your point about the lack of memory is well made - but that's common across all manufacturers. Yes, I opted for surgery! Hate having to push a button before I can drive a car the way I want it.
See also, why does the radio have to come on every time you start the car? My other cars stay muted.
See also, why does the radio have to come on every time you start the car? My other cars stay muted.
andyman_2006 said:
I dont find the 981 clutch heavy at all...but did note the 718 to be a touch lighter (and i drove them back to back within 30 mins of each other)
Suspect the more often people drive auto,DSG,DCT,PDK etc daily then they are less likely to remember what a heavy or light clutch is like, i feel the whole auto box thing is uninviting, and for me blunts the driving experience, my personal opinion of course, but i get that they save C02/mpg, and shift a bit quicker, but it doesn't make me want to buy one.
As far as heavy clutches go my Jag E-type is very heavy (when compared to my M3, and Boxster, Audi TT etc) but it doesn't in any way spoil the driving experience, and its not as if i sit in city centres commuting in it, but even then i would simply just get used to it.
I also have been told that dealers and sales staff are being told to 'push' the PDK/Auto options by manufacturers which could explain the lack of manual cars to test drive, and Porsche dealers have no say in what Porsche sends them as a demo so i was told last week...hence the flood of PDK demos' ?
Andy
I drive a manual Audi A3 as well as my PDK 981. The 981 Boxster courtesy car's clutch was "appalling" in that it would have put me off the car at test drive stage. Not so the 718S' clutch. That was as light as a feather, no different from the A3's as far as I could discern. Suspect the more often people drive auto,DSG,DCT,PDK etc daily then they are less likely to remember what a heavy or light clutch is like, i feel the whole auto box thing is uninviting, and for me blunts the driving experience, my personal opinion of course, but i get that they save C02/mpg, and shift a bit quicker, but it doesn't make me want to buy one.
As far as heavy clutches go my Jag E-type is very heavy (when compared to my M3, and Boxster, Audi TT etc) but it doesn't in any way spoil the driving experience, and its not as if i sit in city centres commuting in it, but even then i would simply just get used to it.
I also have been told that dealers and sales staff are being told to 'push' the PDK/Auto options by manufacturers which could explain the lack of manual cars to test drive, and Porsche dealers have no say in what Porsche sends them as a demo so i was told last week...hence the flood of PDK demos' ?
Andy
One point I don't think has been discussed yet is how having an electronic parking brake coupled with a manual box feels in every day driving?
I've only ever experienced electric parking brakes with automatics myself, so does anyone have thoughts on how intuitive they are in everyday driving with a manual box?
I'm personally leaning towards the manual myself, but having always had a conventional handbrake with my manual cars previously, does anyone have any experience using a manual with an electronic parking brake?
For example, I can imagine having to stop on a hill at a set of traffic lights for a while and finding it a bit irritating that you essentially have to lean forward to engage the parking brake whereas you otherwise would have had a handbrake right alongside your arm in a "conventional" set up?
I've only ever experienced electric parking brakes with automatics myself, so does anyone have thoughts on how intuitive they are in everyday driving with a manual box?
I'm personally leaning towards the manual myself, but having always had a conventional handbrake with my manual cars previously, does anyone have any experience using a manual with an electronic parking brake?
For example, I can imagine having to stop on a hill at a set of traffic lights for a while and finding it a bit irritating that you essentially have to lean forward to engage the parking brake whereas you otherwise would have had a handbrake right alongside your arm in a "conventional" set up?
ikonic said:
One point I don't think has been discussed yet is how having an electronic parking brake coupled with a manual box feels in every day driving?
I've only ever experienced electric parking brakes with automatics myself, so does anyone have thoughts on how intuitive they are in everyday driving with a manual box?
I'm personally leaning towards the manual myself, but having always had a conventional handbrake with my manual cars previously, does anyone have any experience using a manual with an electronic parking brake?
For example, I can imagine having to stop on a hill at a set of traffic lights for a while and finding it a bit irritating that you essentially have to lean forward to engage the parking brake whereas you otherwise would have had a handbrake right alongside your arm in a "conventional" set up?
If it works the same as other Porsche products, you set it, and then just drive off and it releases automatically. I've only ever experienced electric parking brakes with automatics myself, so does anyone have thoughts on how intuitive they are in everyday driving with a manual box?
I'm personally leaning towards the manual myself, but having always had a conventional handbrake with my manual cars previously, does anyone have any experience using a manual with an electronic parking brake?
For example, I can imagine having to stop on a hill at a set of traffic lights for a while and finding it a bit irritating that you essentially have to lean forward to engage the parking brake whereas you otherwise would have had a handbrake right alongside your arm in a "conventional" set up?
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