718 Positive Vibes Thread...
Discussion
You guys need to drive a new 911 for comparison. Or nip round to the Lotus garage and check out the way their 6-pot supercharged Exige works.
IMO the 718 is a very quick and functional sportscar with an engine better suited to auto than manual, because PDK is good at masking the turbo delay. If that's your thing, go for it.
IMO the 718 is a very quick and functional sportscar with an engine better suited to auto than manual, because PDK is good at masking the turbo delay. If that's your thing, go for it.
Ozzie Osmond said:
You guys need to drive a new 911 for comparison.
Well yes. I'm currently straining the man-maths/pushing for pay-rise/re-mortgaging the house/pimping out the missus and considering going with a new 991.2 S.I still might yet, given how my OPC still has no build date for a 718 S ordered back in mid-june.
The obvious question is, how many of the 718 buyers have actually driven the 981, and thought that the 718 sounded better?
Did you feel that something was missing.
If not, buy the 718 if you like it go with it.....
End of story.....
But oh! That beatiful sound of the 6 cylinders orchestral sound???????
Oh well
Gadgit
Did you feel that something was missing.
If not, buy the 718 if you like it go with it.....
End of story.....
But oh! That beatiful sound of the 6 cylinders orchestral sound???????
Oh well
Gadgit
Ozzie Osmond said:
IMO the 718 is a very quick and functional sportscar with an engine better suited to auto than manual, because PDK is good at masking the turbo delay. If that's your thing, go for it.
Manual box is great with the turbo engines. Pop them in 3rd at A road or motorway overtaking speed and there really isn't any perceptible delay. I didn't like PDK as much as I did the manual box in the 718s I have driven, but haven't driven a PDK 2.0 yet (nor am I particularly interested in doing so TBH.)I'll be honest, I would have preferred a 6. But they don't make them anymore, and I don't want to spend that much on a used car I can't spec (and there are many fewer manuals on the market than I had realised).
For a "Positive Vibes" thread not many have anything nice to say about the turbo engine, and my first test drive was on the basis that I'd hate it, cancel the order and resume my search for a 981. But that wasn't what happened - I don't think it's the best sounding car of all time, but I don't think the 981 S is either - but in dynamic terms the engines are good matches to the cars.
Liam
Timbola said:
Ozzie Osmond said:
You guys need to drive a new 911 for comparison.
Well yes. I'm currently straining the man-maths/pushing for pay-rise/re-mortgaging the house/pimping out the missus and considering going with a new 991.2 S.......:
gadgit said:
The obvious question is, how many of the 718 buyers have actually driven the 981, and thought that the 718 sounded better?
Did you feel that something was missing.
If not, buy the 718 if you like it go with it.....
End of story.....
But oh! That beatiful sound of the 6 cylinders orchestral sound???????
Oh well
Gadgit
Owned one. Liked it. Didnt cum in my pants every time I drove it from the noise. Actually prefer the better torque of the turbo engine in the real world where the roads are busy and you cant actually spend all your time revving the tits off an engine with not much torque. 4 cyl sound different, I like it.Did you feel that something was missing.
If not, buy the 718 if you like it go with it.....
End of story.....
But oh! That beatiful sound of the 6 cylinders orchestral sound???????
Oh well
Gadgit
edo said:
Owned one. Liked it. Didnt cum in my pants every time I drove it from the noise. Actually prefer the better torque of the turbo engine in the real world where the roads are busy and you cant actually spend all your time revving the tits off an engine with not much torque. 4 cyl sound different, I like it.
This! Drove a 981 and a 718 back to back, the 981 was easier to drive with the lower torque and lower power, the 718 makes much better use of the excellent chassis and makes it more challenging to put all the power down going round tight corners. The 981 was fun, bit a little inert and to be honest I think at low revs the 718 sounds better than the 981 which only sounds great at the very high end. [quote=edo][quote=gadgit]The obvious question is, how many of the 718 buyers have actually driven the 981, and thought that the 718 sounded better?
Did you feel that something was missing.
If not, buy the 718 if you like it go with it.....
End of story.....
It doesn't sound better but it doesn't sound bad. I'm not sure what people's obsession with sound is. Ready to ignore improved dynamics and performance for a perceived sound difference? Personally I love the power delivery of turbo charged engines and I still long for the way my 650HP MKIV Supra threw me against the seat.
I just sold a 1969 Camaro SS which sounded like thunder rolling down the road. It pricked the hairs on the back of your neck but it handled like an old dog. Let's be honest, the 981 never sounded as good as a classic muscle car, an Aston Martin, a Lamborghini or a even a F-Type S. You don't buy these cars for a single element (like sound) but for the complete package that Porsche has put together with the 718. 15 seconds faster around the ring just goes to show how much it is an improved car over the 981.
Did you feel that something was missing.
If not, buy the 718 if you like it go with it.....
End of story.....
It doesn't sound better but it doesn't sound bad. I'm not sure what people's obsession with sound is. Ready to ignore improved dynamics and performance for a perceived sound difference? Personally I love the power delivery of turbo charged engines and I still long for the way my 650HP MKIV Supra threw me against the seat.
I just sold a 1969 Camaro SS which sounded like thunder rolling down the road. It pricked the hairs on the back of your neck but it handled like an old dog. Let's be honest, the 981 never sounded as good as a classic muscle car, an Aston Martin, a Lamborghini or a even a F-Type S. You don't buy these cars for a single element (like sound) but for the complete package that Porsche has put together with the 718. 15 seconds faster around the ring just goes to show how much it is an improved car over the 981.
adamishome]do said:
gadgit said:
The obvious question is, how many of the 718 buyers have actually driven the 981, and thought that the 718 sounded better?
Did you feel that something was missing.
If not, buy the 718 if you like it go with it.....
End of story.....
It doesn't sound better but it doesn't sound bad. I'm not sure what people's obsession with sound is. Ready to ignore improved dynamics and performance for a perceived sound difference? Personally I love the power delivery of turbo charged engines and I still long for the way my 650HP MKIV Supra threw me against the seat.
I just sold a 1969 Camaro SS which sounded like thunder rolling down the road. It pricked the hairs on the back of your neck but it handled like an old dog. Let's be honest, the 981 never sounded as good as a classic muscle car, an Aston Martin, a Lamborghini or a even a F-Type S. You don't buy these cars for a single element (like sound) but for the complete package that Porsche has put together with the 718. 15 seconds faster around the ring just goes to show how much it is an improved car over the 981.
The sound of the 718 wouldn't be a killer for me - but I do think Porsche on both the 718 and the 911.2 have taken the Italian approach - if you can't sing well, sing loud. The exhaust needs to be loud enough to judge heel and toe gearchanges, but no more. The words agricultural, coarse, uncouth keep cropping even in tests that are largely favourable. Perhaps Porsche should offer a PQE instead of a PSE.Did you feel that something was missing.
If not, buy the 718 if you like it go with it.....
End of story.....
It doesn't sound better but it doesn't sound bad. I'm not sure what people's obsession with sound is. Ready to ignore improved dynamics and performance for a perceived sound difference? Personally I love the power delivery of turbo charged engines and I still long for the way my 650HP MKIV Supra threw me against the seat.
I just sold a 1969 Camaro SS which sounded like thunder rolling down the road. It pricked the hairs on the back of your neck but it handled like an old dog. Let's be honest, the 981 never sounded as good as a classic muscle car, an Aston Martin, a Lamborghini or a even a F-Type S. You don't buy these cars for a single element (like sound) but for the complete package that Porsche has put together with the 718. 15 seconds faster around the ring just goes to show how much it is an improved car over the 981.
adamishome said:
It doesn't sound better but it doesn't sound bad. I'm not sure what people's obsession with sound is. Ready to ignore improved dynamics and performance for a perceived sound difference? Personally I love the power delivery of turbo charged engines and I still long for the way my 650HP MKIV Supra threw me against the seat.
I just sold a 1969 Camaro SS which sounded like thunder rolling down the road. It pricked the hairs on the back of your neck but it handled like an old dog. Let's be honest, the 981 never sounded as good as a classic muscle car, an Aston Martin, a Lamborghini or a even a F-Type S. You don't buy these cars for a single element (like sound) but for the complete package that Porsche has put together with the 718. 15 seconds faster around the ring just goes to show how much it is an improved car over the 981.
A summary which largely chimes with my thoughts, Adam.I just sold a 1969 Camaro SS which sounded like thunder rolling down the road. It pricked the hairs on the back of your neck but it handled like an old dog. Let's be honest, the 981 never sounded as good as a classic muscle car, an Aston Martin, a Lamborghini or a even a F-Type S. You don't buy these cars for a single element (like sound) but for the complete package that Porsche has put together with the 718. 15 seconds faster around the ring just goes to show how much it is an improved car over the 981.
I was fairly close to going for a 981 CGTS, either new or nearly new, after test driving one. When I heard about the impending 718 Cayman and the fact that it was going turbo, I held out until its release so that I could test drive that too. I much prefer the more thrilling delivery of a turbo-lump, along with its low-down grunt, over the linear delivery of natural aspiration, and the necessity for high revs to wring the power out, so thought I'd wait and see what a turbo'd Cayman brought to the table.
Come mid-June and a test in a bright yellow 781 S Boxster affirmed my hopes. Though I was very tempted by the superb 981 CGTS, I was glad that I was reticent.
Insofar as the sound of the F4T is concerned ... back in June the early reviews were in the large piling on the negativity concerning the raspy sounds and mechanical timbre of the 4-pot. So this was certainly something I was tuned into on my 718 Boxster S test. I didn't find it offensive, certainly, just different. The pops and cracks were certainly surprising, and it did sound 'breathy' and raspy. But the wonderful jet-engine whine you get when the turbo charger spools up was present which I was happy to note. The variable-vanes of the S gave the turbine sound a different edge too. And even for a diminutive 4-pot it had a bass note at idle, and when pulling away gently from rest.
It's not the heavy, bassy rumble at low-revs nor thunderous crescendo at high-revs you get in a V8 like a Maserati GT or C63 AMG, sure, but then the Cayman/Boxster isn't a large heavy GT; it's a small, light 2-seater. And, like the previous commenter stated, it's the package that matters; the F4T that Porsche have designed here suits the package of the small, light 2-seater 718 just brilliantly.
Edited by Timbola on Wednesday 5th October 08:38
rianos said:
the 718 makes much better use of the excellent chassis and makes it more challenging to put all the power down going round tight corners. The 981 was fun, bit a little inert .
Precisely my thoughts following 2.0 test drive last week. The car is more lively in the traction zones despite the ridiculous 265 tyres. So for me what you lose one way, you gain another way.I have a 718 Boxster S PDK fully spec'd as a loan car, did 150 miles in it yesterday after dropping my 981 Boxster GTS off for some bits after doing the North Coast 500 and other route with Friends. I'm thinking of writing a report on my findings, but the only positive vibe i can think of is its a bit quieter being Turbo on a long stint inside the cabin. The noise, well I might as well sound like any other run of the mill car, its not exciting at all. Its fast, I'll give it that but its not thrilling to drive at all. It will make a good daily driver probably but not a fun car in my opinion, I'm driving my Audi today don't want to drive the 718, just want my 981 one back. Its made me love my 981 100% more, if it was possible after my highland drive.
Just my thought's, not digging on anyone who has one etc.
Just my thought's, not digging on anyone who has one etc.
JayK12 said:
I have a 718 Boxster S PDK fully spec'd as a loan car, did 150 miles in it yesterday after dropping my 981 Boxster GTS off for some bits after doing the North Coast 500 and other route with Friends. I'm thinking of writing a report on my findings, but the only positive vibe i can think of is its a bit quieter being Turbo on a long stint inside the cabin. The noise, well I might as well sound like any other run of the mill car, its not exciting at all. Its fast, I'll give it that but its not thrilling to drive at all. It will make a good daily driver probably but not a fun car in my opinion, I'm driving my Audi today don't want to drive the 718, just want my 981 one back. Its made me love my 981 100% more, if it was possible after my highland drive.
Just my thought's, not digging on anyone who has one etc.
I've not had an extended drive in 718, just the half day session in both 718 and 718S. That was more than enough for me to experience how preferable to me the BGTS six is in every single respect to the fours as a sports car engine. I was more than happy to get back in my BGTS after the experience. Has Porsche fitted the F4 turbo to make it a better sports car ? - emphatically not, it's there purely and simply to meet environmental legislation and reduced CO2 targets. I actually find the 2.0 diesel in my Volvo V40 D4 daily drive a more pleasant engine, it's certainly much more refined.Just my thought's, not digging on anyone who has one etc.
But as this is the "positive vibes" thread I will say the new engines certainly do have a distinct character about them which clearly does appeal to some, and such engines are the future, the days of naturally aspirated engines are drawing to a close sadly.
Edited by dreamcar on Wednesday 5th October 14:48
dreamcar said:
I've not had an extended drive in 718, just the half day session in both 718 and 718S. That was more than enough for me to experience how preferable to me the BGTS six is in every single respect to the fours as a sports car engine.
Although I personally prefer a 981S - I couldn't agree about the "every single aspect" bit. As many have reasonably pointed out the 981S (let alone the 2.7) can feel inert, and the extra torque of even the 2.0T does help to make the car more playful. I haven't driven the 2.5T but can't help feeling that even more torque would be a further step in making the chassis more engaging. Edited by dreamcar on Wednesday 5th October 14:48
bcr5784 said:
Although I personally prefer a 981S - I couldn't agree about the "every single aspect" bit. As many have reasonably pointed out the 981S (let alone the 2.7) can feel inert, and the extra torque of even the 2.0T does help to make the car more playful. I haven't driven the 2.5T but can't help feeling that even more torque would be a further step in making the chassis more engaging.
It most definitely is more engaging, but there still isn't enough torque to make the chassis feel overpowered by it. Or the tyres for that matter... The 2.5T is a lot of engine. I'm kind of torn about asking the OPC what happens to my allocation if I change from base model to 718 S, but I also have in the back of my mind that it's £9k for power I really couldn't need.Liam
Nicely put.
My first 981 drive was shortly after my first 718 drive. The 718 was the base model manual Boxster, the 981 was a 3.4 S Cayman PDK. In the range I drive most of the time, the 981 sounded great, but needed all of the revs hanging on it to make rapid progress (and it does sound good, but I was tuning Rover, Ford and Chevrolet V8s and Cosworth DFVs for all sorts of cars back in the early 90s, so it's all relative). The 718 was both quick when you wanted it, and quick enough when feeling a little lazier. The 981 was a lovely car, but let's not pretend it reaps some dynamic rewards from sounding better, or needing a few more revs to get going.
Let's stop picking holes. The 718s are quicker. In the case of the base model, a shedload quicker.
The718s are better dynamically in most appreciable ways - floor any 718 alongside a 981 at 2500 rpm and I can tell you without doubt which car will be in front a few seconds later.
They sound different. I can live with that. I have been an NA fan through a long history of having to work on forced induction engines, and even own them at times. Nothing is forcing me to own a 718 beyond my choice of preferring a new 718 over a used 981, I think they are both great cars with great engines. I've never actively wanted a turbo car before, despite having driven a lot of the "classics" (Sierras, Escorts, Imprezas, Maseratis, Mitsubishis, Nissans, and all sorts, but only a passenger trip or 2 in a GTR). The 718 is a serious attempt at a 4 cylinder turbo engine.
As an engineer, I have considerable admiration for the work that has been done; as a driver/customer, even more so. I hope Porsche's engineers find many posts in this thread a personal insult - I know I would. They have made an outstanding job of it, and all claims of failure so far seem totally unsubstantiated beyond failing to make a T4 sound like an NA6.
Liam
My first 981 drive was shortly after my first 718 drive. The 718 was the base model manual Boxster, the 981 was a 3.4 S Cayman PDK. In the range I drive most of the time, the 981 sounded great, but needed all of the revs hanging on it to make rapid progress (and it does sound good, but I was tuning Rover, Ford and Chevrolet V8s and Cosworth DFVs for all sorts of cars back in the early 90s, so it's all relative). The 718 was both quick when you wanted it, and quick enough when feeling a little lazier. The 981 was a lovely car, but let's not pretend it reaps some dynamic rewards from sounding better, or needing a few more revs to get going.
Let's stop picking holes. The 718s are quicker. In the case of the base model, a shedload quicker.
The718s are better dynamically in most appreciable ways - floor any 718 alongside a 981 at 2500 rpm and I can tell you without doubt which car will be in front a few seconds later.
They sound different. I can live with that. I have been an NA fan through a long history of having to work on forced induction engines, and even own them at times. Nothing is forcing me to own a 718 beyond my choice of preferring a new 718 over a used 981, I think they are both great cars with great engines. I've never actively wanted a turbo car before, despite having driven a lot of the "classics" (Sierras, Escorts, Imprezas, Maseratis, Mitsubishis, Nissans, and all sorts, but only a passenger trip or 2 in a GTR). The 718 is a serious attempt at a 4 cylinder turbo engine.
As an engineer, I have considerable admiration for the work that has been done; as a driver/customer, even more so. I hope Porsche's engineers find many posts in this thread a personal insult - I know I would. They have made an outstanding job of it, and all claims of failure so far seem totally unsubstantiated beyond failing to make a T4 sound like an NA6.
Liam
FourPotPorsche said:
Ok before I proceed in dismantling the above biased drivel let me quote these guys from the Cayman GTS thread:
dreamcar said:
My sentiments entirely when we attended the PEC for the 718! Great car ruined by a crappy engine. 'Maybe Porsche should have named it Boxster / Cayman GTI rather than 718!
Boxster Mk4 GTI smile
In response JayK12 said:
Boxster MK4 GTI ST TYPE R Ultimate 8 lol
So we are dealing with 2 guys who clearly dislike the 718 so why they bother to post here is a mystery?
Point 1 from dreamcar:
"The noise, well I might as well sound like any other run of the mill car, its not exciting at all. Its fast, I'll give it that but its not thrilling to drive at all"
Clearly detached from reality. All reviews state that the car is better than ever in all tangible departments: speed, steering, chasis control, stopping. Moreover, and for me rather telling, it is the first Cayman where PTV is recommended even for those who are not planning to track it - as others have alluded to, the low down torque makes the Cayman more playful and the chassis less inert. As to the sound, this is a subjective quality and if the nasp 6 pot makes the car thrilling for you then that I can understand but it takes a lot more ingredients to satisfy me.
Point 2 from dreamcar:
It will make a good daily driver probably but not a fun car in my opinion, I'm driving my Audi today don't want to drive the 718, just want my 981 one back.
Well I presume the Audi TT RS is on your radar?
Point 3 from JK12:
That was more than enough for me to experience how preferable to me the BGTS six is in every single respect to the fours as a sports car engine.
In every single respect..except power, acceleration, top speed and torque, all the things I look for in a sports car power plant.
Some come on guys, leave this thread alone and I promise I won't post things in the GTS threads like "All show and no go" and "A lot of pound for a nice sound"
You have made your choice and we on this thread have made ours so let's leave it at that.
Best regards,
4Pot
Lol, why do people take offence to opinions? Yes i said that joking around, I've also had some banter with you guys as jokes. But my view was constructive, there was a positive, I said it was fast in a straight line. I have a 718 S as a loan car, have it for a number of days so giving my opinion. Also said not digging at anyone but for some reason you guys take it personal. Anyone can say anything about my car, i don't take it personally. dreamcar said:
My sentiments entirely when we attended the PEC for the 718! Great car ruined by a crappy engine. 'Maybe Porsche should have named it Boxster / Cayman GTI rather than 718!
Boxster Mk4 GTI smile
In response JayK12 said:
Boxster MK4 GTI ST TYPE R Ultimate 8 lol
So we are dealing with 2 guys who clearly dislike the 718 so why they bother to post here is a mystery?
Point 1 from dreamcar:
"The noise, well I might as well sound like any other run of the mill car, its not exciting at all. Its fast, I'll give it that but its not thrilling to drive at all"
Clearly detached from reality. All reviews state that the car is better than ever in all tangible departments: speed, steering, chasis control, stopping. Moreover, and for me rather telling, it is the first Cayman where PTV is recommended even for those who are not planning to track it - as others have alluded to, the low down torque makes the Cayman more playful and the chassis less inert. As to the sound, this is a subjective quality and if the nasp 6 pot makes the car thrilling for you then that I can understand but it takes a lot more ingredients to satisfy me.
Point 2 from dreamcar:
It will make a good daily driver probably but not a fun car in my opinion, I'm driving my Audi today don't want to drive the 718, just want my 981 one back.
Well I presume the Audi TT RS is on your radar?
Point 3 from JK12:
That was more than enough for me to experience how preferable to me the BGTS six is in every single respect to the fours as a sports car engine.
In every single respect..except power, acceleration, top speed and torque, all the things I look for in a sports car power plant.
Some come on guys, leave this thread alone and I promise I won't post things in the GTS threads like "All show and no go" and "A lot of pound for a nice sound"
You have made your choice and we on this thread have made ours so let's leave it at that.
Best regards,
4Pot
Thats great your priority is power, torque, top speed, but mine is enjoyment, character from the engine, a screaming sound, and good handing balance. Power, Top speed are the least of my proprieties, I spend my time bashing through A / B roads, not straight lining. So we see the 718 in a different light.
I hope you guys enjoy your 718's.
LiamH66 said:
Nicely put.
The718s are better dynamically in most appreciable ways - floor any 718 alongside a 981 at 2500 rpm and I can tell you without doubt which car will be in front a few seconds later.
Liam
At 2500 revs thats only true if the turbo is spooled up. From a light throttle it still takes a couple of seconds for the turbo to spool up - and the 981S (at least) would be a fair way up the road. (I did particularly test lag on my test drive). I'm not even sure that the 718 would beat a base 981 at those speeds initially. And cruising at modest motorway speeds the 981S is a much more relaxing car because the response is so much better. If I were buying a 718, that would push me toward the 718S (assuming that it's better in that regard) - but as you say you are paying a lot for outright performance you don't need (and can rarely use). But I do quite a lot of boring motorway stuff - you may not.The718s are better dynamically in most appreciable ways - floor any 718 alongside a 981 at 2500 rpm and I can tell you without doubt which car will be in front a few seconds later.
Liam
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