718 Positive Vibes Thread...

[JayK12]

bcr5784 said:

LiamH66 said:

Nicely put.



The718s are better dynamically in most appreciable ways - floor any 718 alongside a 981 at 2500 rpm and I can tell you without doubt which car will be in front a few seconds later.



Liam

At 2500 revs thats only true if the turbo is spooled up. From a light throttle it still takes a couple of seconds for the turbo to spool up - and the 981S (at least) would be a fair way up the road. (I did particularly test lag on my test drive). I'm not even sure that the 718 would beat a base 981 at those speeds initially. And cruising at modest motorway speeds the 981S is a much more relaxing car because the response is so much better. If I were buying a 718, that would push me toward the 718S (assuming that it's better in that regard) - but as you say you are paying a lot for outright performance you don't need (and can rarely use). But I do quite a lot of boring motorway stuff - you may not.

Why would you want that from a sports car...........surely you want to work the car......drive it......rev it out.........?? I guess everyone is different but i find no joy from that, i get that from my daily diesel. I find to get the 718 really going you need to be up the revs. When cruising at 2000rpm and flooring the 718 S i get a nasty vibration from the engine into the cabin, it doesn't like it. I felt it really gets going from 4000rpm onwards.

[highscore]

JayK12 said:

Thats great your priority is power, torque, top speed, but mine is enjoyment, character from the engine, a screaming sound, and good handing balance. Power, Top speed are the least of my proprieties, I spend my time bashing through A / B roads, not straight lining. So we see the 718 in a different light.

Utterly ridiculous statement.

[DJMC]

In a few years it'll be...
If you like no noise the 3.3 second 0-62 of the electric 719 is great.
But the 4cyl 718S sounds better.
Presently it's just whether you, personally, prefer 4 turbo and other advances to N/A 6 and "old" tech.
Lots will. It's great they do.

[Ian in Halifax]

If your main criteria for selecting a vehicle is engine noise then get a Traction Engine....beautiful sound

[pete.g]

It's a bit naïve to call a thread 'Positive Vibes. . . ' and expect nothing bar an ego bath for those who have chosen the car in the title, especially on this forum?

Are we going to start promoting 'Safe Space' style rules and demand that no-one is ever exposed to a contrary view?

[edo]

JayK12 said:

FourPotPorsche said:

Ok before I proceed in dismantling the above biased drivel let me quote these guys from the Cayman GTS thread:


dreamcar said:
My sentiments entirely when we attended the PEC for the 718! Great car ruined by a crappy engine. 'Maybe Porsche should have named it Boxster / Cayman GTI rather than 718!
Boxster Mk4 GTI smile

In response JayK12 said:
Boxster MK4 GTI ST TYPE R Ultimate 8 lol

So we are dealing with 2 guys who clearly dislike the 718 so why they bother to post here is a mystery?

Point 1 from dreamcar:
"The noise, well I might as well sound like any other run of the mill car, its not exciting at all. Its fast, I'll give it that but its not thrilling to drive at all"
Clearly detached from reality. All reviews state that the car is better than ever in all tangible departments: speed, steering, chasis control, stopping. Moreover, and for me rather telling, it is the first Cayman where PTV is recommended even for those who are not planning to track it - as others have alluded to, the low down torque makes the Cayman more playful and the chassis less inert. As to the sound, this is a subjective quality and if the nasp 6 pot makes the car thrilling for you then that I can understand but it takes a lot more ingredients to satisfy me.

Point 2 from dreamcar:
It will make a good daily driver probably but not a fun car in my opinion, I'm driving my Audi today don't want to drive the 718, just want my 981 one back.

Well I presume the Audi TT RS is on your radar?

Point 3 from JK12:
That was more than enough for me to experience how preferable to me the BGTS six is in every single respect to the fours as a sports car engine.

In every single respect..except power, acceleration, top speed and torque, all the things I look for in a sports car power plant.

Some come on guys, leave this thread alone and I promise I won't post things in the GTS threads like "All show and no go" and "A lot of pound for a nice sound"

You have made your choice and we on this thread have made ours so let's leave it at that.

Best regards,

4Pot

Lol, why do people take offence to opinions? Yes i said that joking around, I've also had some banter with you guys as jokes. But my view was constructive, there was a positive, I said it was fast in a straight line. I have a 718 S as a loan car, have it for a number of days so giving my opinion. Also said not digging at anyone but for some reason you guys take it personal. Anyone can say anything about my car, i don't take it personally.

Thats great your priority is power, torque, top speed, but mine is enjoyment, character from the engine, a screaming sound, and good handing balance. Power, Top speed are the least of my proprieties, I spend my time bashing through A / B roads, not straight lining. So we see the 718 in a different light.

I hope you guys enjoy your 718's.

So why the juddering f*ck fo you feel the need to post in a 718 "positive vibes" thread then? JFO!

[bcr5784]

JayK12 said:

Why would you want that from a sports car...........surely you want to work the car......drive it......rev it out.........?? I guess everyone is different but i find no joy from that, i get that from my daily diesel. I find to get the 718 really going you need to be up the revs. When cruising at 2000rpm and flooring the 718 S i get a nasty vibration from the engine into the cabin, it doesn't like it. I felt it really gets going from 4000rpm onwards.

Because my car is a daily driver and has to satisfy lots of things besides hooning around at weekends. Indeed I might argue with term "sports car" - a Caterham or Elise is a sports car - a Cayman is really a GT (a damn good one).

I have to say that if the 718S doesn't like being floored at 2000 revs then why on earth have Porsche chosen to put peak torque at 1900 rpm? Nor can I understand why it should feel to be getting going from 4000 upwards because peak torque is from 1900- 4500rpm so over 4500 revs you are losing acceleration not gaining it. If that is the impression I can only assume that below that figure you are feeling lag, though I'm surprised if it extends as far as 4000 revs.

Much of the argument AGAINST the 718 by its detractors is that it (as turbos tend to) works well in the midrange but lacks top end - even if that is rather simplistic.

[highscore]

pete.g said:

It's a bit naïve to call a thread 'Positive Vibes. . . ' and expect nothing bar an ego bath for those who have chosen the car in the title, especially on this forum?

Are we going to start promoting 'Safe Space' style rules and demand that no-one is ever exposed to a contrary view?

I know what you mean, but every other thread (and this one too if you look at recent posts) is full of 981/987 owners doing the same thing. I think it was created to be a thread where people could actually discuss the car and its merits without it descending into biased mud slinging.

I mean just look at this page. I've learned that the 718 is suited to straight lining and not cornering, as well as being less exciting than a Volvo.

My 718 will be my first Porsche and this is my first proper interaction with Porsche owners. Strange breed.

[JayK12]

edo said:

JayK12 said:

FourPotPorsche said:

Ok before I proceed in dismantling the above biased drivel let me quote these guys from the Cayman GTS thread:


dreamcar said:
My sentiments entirely when we attended the PEC for the 718! Great car ruined by a crappy engine. 'Maybe Porsche should have named it Boxster / Cayman GTI rather than 718!
Boxster Mk4 GTI smile

In response JayK12 said:
Boxster MK4 GTI ST TYPE R Ultimate 8 lol

So we are dealing with 2 guys who clearly dislike the 718 so why they bother to post here is a mystery?

Point 1 from dreamcar:
"The noise, well I might as well sound like any other run of the mill car, its not exciting at all. Its fast, I'll give it that but its not thrilling to drive at all"
Clearly detached from reality. All reviews state that the car is better than ever in all tangible departments: speed, steering, chasis control, stopping. Moreover, and for me rather telling, it is the first Cayman where PTV is recommended even for those who are not planning to track it - as others have alluded to, the low down torque makes the Cayman more playful and the chassis less inert. As to the sound, this is a subjective quality and if the nasp 6 pot makes the car thrilling for you then that I can understand but it takes a lot more ingredients to satisfy me.

Point 2 from dreamcar:
It will make a good daily driver probably but not a fun car in my opinion, I'm driving my Audi today don't want to drive the 718, just want my 981 one back.

Well I presume the Audi TT RS is on your radar?

Point 3 from JK12:
That was more than enough for me to experience how preferable to me the BGTS six is in every single respect to the fours as a sports car engine.

In every single respect..except power, acceleration, top speed and torque, all the things I look for in a sports car power plant.

Some come on guys, leave this thread alone and I promise I won't post things in the GTS threads like "All show and no go" and "A lot of pound for a nice sound"

You have made your choice and we on this thread have made ours so let's leave it at that.

Best regards,

4Pot

Lol, why do people take offence to opinions? Yes i said that joking around, I've also had some banter with you guys as jokes. But my view was constructive, there was a positive, I said it was fast in a straight line. I have a 718 S as a loan car, have it for a number of days so giving my opinion. Also said not digging at anyone but for some reason you guys take it personal. Anyone can say anything about my car, i don't take it personally.

Thats great your priority is power, torque, top speed, but mine is enjoyment, character from the engine, a screaming sound, and good handing balance. Power, Top speed are the least of my proprieties, I spend my time bashing through A / B roads, not straight lining. So we see the 718 in a different light.

I hope you guys enjoy your 718's.

So why the juddering f*ck fo you feel the need to post in a 718 "positive vibes" thread then? JFO!

Because I'm currently testing one!! Or are you not allowed to say bad things about a car?!

[Malo]

highscore said:

My 718 will be my first Porsche and this is my first proper interaction with Porsche owners. Strange breed.

They/we are not a strange breed (on here at least) just passionate about the cars we own and will thus like/justify them as we see fit.

[dreamcar]

highscore said:

I know what you mean, but every other thread (and this one too if you look at recent posts) is full of 981/987 owners doing the same thing. I think it was created to be a thread where people could actually discuss the car and its merits without it descending into biased mud slinging.

I mean just look at this page. I've learned that the 718 is suited to straight lining and not cornering, as well as being less exciting than a Volvo.

My 718 will be my first Porsche and this is my first proper interaction with Porsche owners. Strange breed.

Firstly if you are referring to my earlier comment I did not say that a 718 "was less exciting than a Volvo" I merely said the engine was smoother and more refined. Now I've got that cleared up in various posts I have praised the 718, to recap the steering is better, the handling is sharper, PDK is better, PASM is better, the new PCM makes the unit in the 981 seem prehistoric by comparison. The 718 is faster than the equivalent 981 as well as being slightly more economical, lower tax due to lower emissions. It's a great car and better than any other sports car in anything like a similar price range. The only controversial issue is whether or not different folks find that new engine to their pleasing. Some find the engine note a higher priority than others. To me the engine sound is very important and I get a great deal of pleasure from the wailing flat six sound, and it matters more to me than a fraction of a second quicker acceleration time.

Yes I guess we Porsche owners can be a strange breed! I remember the same heated - no pun intended - air cooled is better than water cooled debate in the 1990's, not that I had a Porsche back then. Now no one thinks twice about a water cooled Porsche and I am sure in not many years no one will worry about a flat four turbo Boxster / Cayman / 718 either!

[JayK12]

bcr5784 said:

JayK12 said:

Why would you want that from a sports car...........surely you want to work the car......drive it......rev it out.........?? I guess everyone is different but i find no joy from that, i get that from my daily diesel. I find to get the 718 really going you need to be up the revs. When cruising at 2000rpm and flooring the 718 S i get a nasty vibration from the engine into the cabin, it doesn't like it. I felt it really gets going from 4000rpm onwards.

Because my car is a daily driver and has to satisfy lots of things besides hooning around at weekends. Indeed I might argue with term "sports car" - a Caterham or Elise is a sports car - a Cayman is really a GT (a damn good one).

I have to say that if the 718S doesn't like being floored at 2000 revs then why on earth have Porsche chosen to put peak torque at 1900 rpm? Nor can I understand why it should feel to be getting going from 4000 upwards because peak torque is from 1900- 4500rpm so over 4500 revs you are losing acceleration not gaining it. If that is the impression I can only assume that below that figure you are feeling lag, though I'm surprised if it extends as far as 4000 revs.

Much of the argument AGAINST the 718 by its detractors is that it (as turbos tend to) works well in the midrange but lacks top end - even if that is rather simplistic.

If its a daily then its understandable, as I said the cockpit is a lot quieter than the 981, which is nice on a long haul or when cruising roof up. Im not sure, i was in a higher gear at around 1700 to 2000 rpm and if i dump the gas it was feeling like a vibration but not going anywhere, the 981 wouldn't really speed off either but it doesn't give that vibration, but you get a deep drone. Its not laggy up to 4000rpm, i just felt it was really going after 4000rpm through to 7K, i didnt feel a tail off in power. Its just not exciting, I've had turbo cars that can be exciting, can rev, can have character, but this just isn't exciting. I still have it, the wife is taking it out today to see what she things, but she also said as a passenger she can see it doesn't give the whole excitement package. She loves the updated PCM though.

[highscore]

dreamcar said:

Firstly if you are referring to my earlier comment I did not say that a 718 "was less exciting than a Volvo" I merely said the engine was smoother and more refined. Now I've got that cleared up in various posts I have praised the 718, to recap the steering is better, the handling is sharper, PDK is better, PASM is better, the new PCM makes the unit in the 981 seem prehistoric by comparison. The 718 is faster than the equivalent 981 as well as being slightly more economical, lower tax due to lower emissions. It's a great car and better than any other sports car in anything like a similar price range. The only controversial issue is whether or not different folks find that new engine to their pleasing. Some find the engine note a higher priority than others. To me the engine sound is very important and I get a great deal of pleasure from the wailing flat six sound, and it matters more to me than a fraction of a second quicker acceleration time.

Yes I guess we Porsche owners can be a strange breed! I remember the same heated - no pun intended - air cooled is better than water cooled debate in the 1990's, not that I had a Porsche back then. Now no one thinks twice about a water cooled Porsche and I am sure in not many years no one will worry about a flat four turbo Boxster / Cayman / 718 either!

Fair comments

[bcr5784]

JayK12 said:

If its a daily then its understandable, as I said the cockpit is a lot quieter than the 981, which is nice on a long haul or when cruising roof up. Im not sure, i was in a higher gear at around 1700 to 2000 rpm and if i dump the gas it was feeling like a vibration but not going anywhere, the 981 wouldn't really speed off either but it doesn't give that vibration

My beef with the 718 is pretty much what you are saying (of the S) that at 2000 revs (exactly in my case) if you floor the throttle it takes forever (measured at 3 seconds I believe) for the turbo to spool up and the car to go anywhere, which is a real pain on the motorway - no vibration though. The 981S isn't, as you say, a ball of fire at those revs but it's got enough grunt for motorway gradients or easing past slower traffic.

I was expecting the 718S (which I have not driven) to better in that regard than the 718 - larger capacity so more torque off boost, less max boost and variable geometry turbo all ought to make it so.

Personally didn't find the 718 (non S) Boxster any quieter than my 981S Cayman (both non - PSE). PSE cars have smaller silencers so almost certainly noisier than non-PSE ones - even when PSE is off.

[gadgit]

Obviously on a forum for Boxter /Cayman you will have comments from all sorts of people. Don't ever expect to choose a topic and consider that you have the right to only have answers from people that you want. It borders on childish to think you can monopolize a subject matter because you think you own it.

Getting back to Porsche owners, they tend to be the most bigoted people that you ever pass in another Porsche, not even bothering to acknowledge another owner.
Don't worry, I'm not including most of you lot in that category because most people on this forum are sports car owners first and formost.
Unfortunately there appears to be just a few on here that border on the bigoted scale of thinking that they obviously have the better car?

I am a 981 man and will probably stay that way, because I am partially bigoted into believing that the 981 will become a classic due to the low numbers produced.
But this will not stop me waving to a 718 driver passing me.
I would like to think that the 718 drivers would do the same to me.
But the bitterness shown by some on hear makes me worry that this may not happen.
Never had this problem on the TVR forum....
What a shame.

Gadgit

[Carl_Manchester]

highscore said:

My 718 will be my first Porsche and this is my first proper interaction with Porsche owners. Strange breed.

highscore, i do apologise, it does get passionate around here.

the controversy will die down but a dear friend has died and I think what we are seeing played out here is mourning and at some stage the mourning will end. In some respect this forum is nothing more than a group therapy session at the moment.

when I joined the forum porsche was at its modern zenith (2009) and some of us (me included) will have to except that the party is over for now and go 'n do something else more constructive. I have already started posting in the VW forum with regards to my Polo GTI (hah!).

not many people in this forum are 'normal', we are strange but in a nice way. Apart from cmoose but its ok he is locked in my basement and cannot hurt anyone apart from himself. I hope you start your own thread and share your journey with the car, if only to look back upon it yourself in future.

[dreamcar]

gadgit said:

...Never had this problem on the TVR forum....

Gadgit

Owners too busy with toolkit fixing the darned things to post?

[Ozzie Osmond]

bcr5784 said:

I was expecting the 718S (which I have not driven) to better in that regard than the 718 - larger capacity so more torque off boost, less max boost and variable geometry turbo all ought to make it so.

Personally didn't find the 718 (non S) Boxster any quieter than my 981S Cayman (both non - PSE). PSE cars have smaller silencers so almost certainly noisier than non-PSE ones - even when PSE is off.

IMO there's no material difference in the amount of sound although the nature of the sound is radically different.

Having driven 718 I concluded the new turbo engine works extremely well with PDK, which can shuffle very quickly down the gears when throttle action is requested. In a manual car the turbo characteristics would delay progress unless you've changed down well in advance to get things spinning-up.

My understanding is that around 95% of 718s are being sold with PDK.

I'll add that I found no difference whatsoever between driving 718 and 981 apart from the engine.

[DJMC]

I have to agree. After 9 months of base 981 ownership and then test driving a 718S I drove away in my car and re-experienced the same inexplicable thrill of its engine in comparison but little other difference. No doubt due to the 981's smooth linear delivery combined with mechanical and exhaust noises. Test driving a 718 in isolation wouldn't perhaps allow such a comparison. To be fair, the 718 may have hidden long-term attributes I'm not aware of either. I'm sure most 981 owners if faced with purchasing a 718 with turbo 4 or N/A 6 engines would choose the latter. But the turbo 4 will attract a new bunch of enthusiasts to the Boxster and Cayman... those who prefer 4 cylinder turbo power. Good for them.

[JayK12]

This is the demo I have for nearly 2 weeks. The wife drove it today and she prefers the PDK just in auto she can drive around its easy for her. I think the PDK is really good but prefer manual as is our 981. Wife finds clutch heavy when moving it. The back of the 718 is growing on me, the front looks too soft. The engine again today on start up sounds like a V Twin motorbike, and when visiting my mum she actually thought a motorbike turned up.

It's fully spec'd and the Burmester sound system sounds awesome. So I'll take it to work tomorrow and listen to my tunes.