718 Positive Vibes Thread...
Discussion
nickfrog said:
Tell me about it OO. I drive 3 cars with 3 different configurations. Keeps your brain active !
Dividing the days into cars, kinda helps in my situation, not that they are all different though! 
Monday - thursday commute - Beetle Turbo
Friday - Saturday - Sunday Blasts - Boxa
Abroad, Holiday - Golf - (LHD)
- luckily, all of them are manual!
bcr5784 said:
And Porsche quote up to 3 seconds of lag, so I assume they don't even listen to Porsche and they are lacking the ability to perceive the difference between the performance of the car when the turbo is spooled up - when even the base 718 will show a clean pair of heels to my 981S even from 2000 revs. And when it isn't (from 2000 revs) when my 981S will pull quickly ahead initially. The result is that either 981 models are perfectly useable from 2000 or a bit less (though no ball of fire) and, in reality the 718 isn't/
I'm really not trying to dis the 718 but I do think there needs to be balance and objectivity when judging it. I'm afraid that detractors fail to give credit to the 718 where is due, and supporters are somewhat blind to it's quite measureable lag.
You're right, it's measurable, and I had a chance to do a bit of measuring today. Base model Cayman 718 manual, lag measured approximately from flooring throttle to full boost showing on gauge (non-chrono in sports mode):I'm really not trying to dis the 718 but I do think there needs to be balance and objectivity when judging it. I'm afraid that detractors fail to give credit to the 718 where is due, and supporters are somewhat blind to it's quite measureable lag.
2000 rpm - just under 2 seconds
2500 rpm - just over 1 second
3000 rpm - a fair bit under 1 second
4000 rpm - less than 0.5 seconds, but was in a demo and didn't know how "run in" it was so didn't play a lot above there.
S model probably has a bit less lag, but I'm still happy enough to have ordered the base model. All very smooth, but I owe you an apology - feels like there is far less lag than when you actually measure it. Does this change my perception of the cars? Not really, I still find them a great drive, and love the mid-range torque even though I am evidently waiting for it a little longer than I thought I was.
First drive in an actual base model 718 Cayman, and despite the yellow dash inserts and yellow safety belts (evidently Porsche spec the demos for the centres, but talk about kitsch!) was absolutely delighted with the drive. Now starting to wonder if I really want PASM or PTV - lovely without them, even on 20" wheels, and I'm having 18". Might well be the least extras anyone ever has with a Cayman...
Liam
LiamH66 said:
Base model Cayman 718 manual, lag measured approximately from flooring throttle to full boost showing on gauge (non-chrono in sports mode):
2000 rpm - just under 2 seconds
2500 rpm - just over 1 second
3000 rpm - a fair bit under 1 second
4000 rpm - less than 0.5 seconds, but was in a demo and didn't know how "run in" it was so didn't play a lot above there.
Where's your comparative data for the time it takes a 981 to reach "peak torque" from flooring the throttle?2000 rpm - just under 2 seconds
2500 rpm - just over 1 second
3000 rpm - a fair bit under 1 second
4000 rpm - less than 0.5 seconds, but was in a demo and didn't know how "run in" it was so didn't play a lot above there.
Ozzie Osmond said:
Where's your comparative data for the time it takes a 981 to reach "peak torque" from flooring the throttle?
Peak torque from the 981 at those revs is kind of low in comparison, even though it arrives on demand. 
I probably would have preferred an NA, but it's what's available new, and it's an enjoyable experience.
Liam
Ozzie Osmond said:
Where's your comparative data for the time it takes a 981 to reach "peak torque" from flooring the throttle?
You'd need a data logger to do that with any accuracy. The graph I quoted for 911 lag showed a MK1 GTI Golf at .1 sec - but, having owned one - I can safely say the 981 is much worse. As it happens my son sells data loggers, so I just might be able to borrow one, and find out.neilf said:
Looks, Porsche, dynamics Porsche again.. overall VW group.bcr5784 said:
As it happens my son sells data loggers, so I just might be able to borrow one, and find out.
It would be genuinely interesting to see the side-by-side comparison.Although I undoubtedly enjoy the characteristics of the old 6-pot my suspicion is that the 4-pot turbo can probably meet and beat the equivalent older car anywhere, any time. Sure, the 6-pots go very nicely once "on the cam" but side-by-side the 4-pot would already be "on boost". Similarly from low rpm I suspect the "torque hole" may have just as much negative effect as "turbo lag", although clearly the cars would feel very different.
Yes, it really would be interesting to see some side-by-side analysis of both cars (base and S) and both transmissions.
Its interesting that lots of the base 718 Cayman demo cars are manual - I'm sure any lag would be less noticeable if you're in a lower gear.
I took out a Cayman S for a extended drive and it had minimal if any lag, its there but very slight. But overall it was very quick and very eager to go at all times, regardless of gear, even when cruising on the motorway.
I took out a Cayman S for a extended drive and it had minimal if any lag, its there but very slight. But overall it was very quick and very eager to go at all times, regardless of gear, even when cruising on the motorway.
amgmcqueen said:
How do you guys overlook the fact these have a 4 pot that sounds dreadful?
Genuinely curious as I think the car looks fantastic but I just couldn't bring myself to buy one knowing what went before?! I think the engine has completely ruined the car.
Have you heard the saying that one man's meat is another man's poison? It comes down to different opinions and different requirements. We are all individuals with individual preferences. I will certainly be swapping from my 987 Spyder to a 718 B GTS as soon as it is available - and hopefully a 718 Spyder a couple of years later (LOI already lodged!!)Genuinely curious as I think the car looks fantastic but I just couldn't bring myself to buy one knowing what went before?! I think the engine has completely ruined the car.
amgmcqueen said:
How do you guys overlook the fact these have a 4 pot that sounds dreadful?
Genuinely curious as I think the car looks fantastic but I just couldn't bring myself to buy one knowing what went before?! I think the engine has completely ruined the car.
Since virtually all the other threads exist for the sole purpose of denigrating the 718 it's a pity you feel the need to inject this into the only 'positive vibe' thread.Genuinely curious as I think the car looks fantastic but I just couldn't bring myself to buy one knowing what went before?! I think the engine has completely ruined the car.
amgmcqueen said:
How do you guys overlook the fact these have a 4 pot that sounds dreadful?
Because a nice noise is entirely subjective. Personally don't like the sound of the 718 either, but think PSE is dreadful, don't like flat plane crank V8s, the sound of F1 cars of this or the previous generation... I'm sure many will disagree - but it's impossible to say who is right or wrong. Doubtless goats like the smell of other goats.
981UK said:
Its interesting that lots of the base 718 Cayman demo cars are manual - I'm sure any lag would be less noticeable if you're in a lower gear.
I took out a Cayman S for a extended drive and it had minimal if any lag, its there but very slight. But overall it was very quick and very eager to go at all times, regardless of gear, even when cruising on the motorway.
Funny thing really - I didn't think there was perceptible lag with base model or S, but when I got a bit more scientific, watching the boost gauge and counting, it's there if you're under 4000 rpm. Like you, even in high gears on the motorway, I felt the cars feel really eager even at low engine speeds. After my 4th (or is it 5th) drive of the 718, I can still live with the alternative soundtrack. For me it's more about the way they drive than what they sound like.I took out a Cayman S for a extended drive and it had minimal if any lag, its there but very slight. But overall it was very quick and very eager to go at all times, regardless of gear, even when cruising on the motorway.
Liam
amgmcqueen said:
How do you guys overlook the fact these have a 4 pot that sounds dreadful?
Because there is more to a car than how the engine sounds. They are great to drive, and great fun to drive. The exhaust note is kind of subjective, but they way go is in many ways objectively (and from my POV subjectively) an improvement on the previous model.Liam
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