718 Positive Vibes Thread...
Discussion
Whaleblue said:
I should add, I accept that my own posts are no more than 'internet gossip', and of course bcr our findings are just our own subjective opinions.
So I reassert, drive one for yourself and then form an opinion.
I'd agree about driving both, ride is (as you see from the wide variety of views) and as you say very subjective.. And just to add another variable, my PASM 981S has a noticeably harder ride in cold weather than warm, so I'd try both in similar temperatures if you can.So I reassert, drive one for yourself and then form an opinion.
Edited by Whaleblue on Sunday 11th December 20:39
bcr5784 said:
I'd agree about driving both, ride is (as you see from the wide variety of views) and as you say very subjective.. And just to add another variable, my PASM 981S has a noticeably harder ride in cold weather than warm, so I'd try both in similar temperatures if you can.
Absolutely. Just for the record, my comparisons were back to back three weeks ago.The 981 is a fantastic car, and I'm sure a joy to own.
In my opinion the 718 advances the breed.
brakedwell said:
As I only picked up my 718 Boxster on Friday I can only give my first impressions. A customer in a 981 Boxster S drove off as we were getting into our car, with the hood down. It sounded very similar to ours as we left, raspy! However, I have no experience of the flat 6, so that was only subjective. The refinement and comfort has impressed me after the choppiness of a DB9. The pliant ride copes well with the very poor state of the local roads. Fit and finish is fantastic, as is the quality of the paintwork and interior. The positive vibes are really humming!
Car looks superb, wheels are well suited & interior looks really smart.......................enjoyWhaleblue said:
So, my longest paragraph is on the sound. That's because the sound of a car is its most important attribute, right? Well, no, not to this buyer, and regardless I like the growl of the 718. In fact, therefore, those that dismiss the 718 because it doesn't sound 'as it should' might be reducing the assessment to 'the most important attribute of a car is whether its sound fits a preconceived idea of the marquees heritage'. To me that's madness.
I couldn't agree with you more. Despite not liking the noise of the flat-4, I still prefer the driving experience of the 781 overall, compared to the 981/987.So I totally accept that it's a non-starter for some new car buyers. But for me the package has moved on by retaining the fundamentals (low cog, low pmoi, brakes etc...) but also instilling a new dynamic challenge, what with the way the power is now delivered.
As for straight line performance, I remember doing Nordshleife + GP track in my friends 981 2.7 a couple of year ago. The car was great but the straights felt a bit long!( and I don't normally care much).
Another one for you flat four fans, Circuit de Nevers Magny-Cours GP circuit 4.4 km lap times :-
McLaren 675LT: 1:48.00
Corvette Zo6 (Z07 pack): 1:51.30
718 Cayman S: 1:59.70
BMW M3 (Competition pack): 1:59.80
Cadillac CTS-V: 1:59.90
911.2 Carrera S: 2:01.10
Jaguar F-type SVR: 2:01.20
Mercedes C63 S AMG Coupé: 2:02.20
Chevrolet Camaro V8: 2:02.50
BMW M2: 2:03.20
Ford Focus RS: 2:07.70
Driver is Romain Monti. To be honest I am surprised the Cayman is quicker than the 991/2 Carrera S!
McLaren 675LT: 1:48.00
Corvette Zo6 (Z07 pack): 1:51.30
718 Cayman S: 1:59.70
BMW M3 (Competition pack): 1:59.80
Cadillac CTS-V: 1:59.90
911.2 Carrera S: 2:01.10
Jaguar F-type SVR: 2:01.20
Mercedes C63 S AMG Coupé: 2:02.20
Chevrolet Camaro V8: 2:02.50
BMW M2: 2:03.20
Ford Focus RS: 2:07.70
Driver is Romain Monti. To be honest I am surprised the Cayman is quicker than the 991/2 Carrera S!
Car and Driver have run a piece entitled 'Fours to be Reckoned With', which talks about two cars that have dropped 2 cylinders from 6 to 4; the Volvo S90 and the 718 Cayster.
Some interesting snippets ...
_________
We can’t say the Porsches are better with the new engines, but they are different and perhaps equally good. That is not surprising. What is surprising is their unflappable ride. Porsche offers wheels ranging from 18 to 20 inches, as well as three suspension setups. But no matter the combination you choose, the 718 shrugs off anything it drives over or through. The S90, on the other hand, comes fitted with 20-inch Pirelli P Zeros that, while endowing this big luxury sedan with surprising grip and braking tenacity, cost it in road noise and impact harshness. If the structure were stiffer, it could’ve coped better with the wheels. We felt all sorts of buzz coming up through the Volvo’s steering column. Astonishingly, of these vehicles, it is the 718 that rides like a luxury car. Not astonishingly, the Porsche duo makes 10Best again and we pass on the flinty Volvo.
_________
The Porsches’ steering, one of the great ambassadors of electrical assist, is even quicker off-center for 2017; it steals the rack from the 911 Turbo. The brakes are firm and progressive, stopping the car with astounding brevity.
_________
With the new turbocharged fours, the 718s blow a different fanfare from their backside bugles, and they sound only a little bit like an old air-cooled Beetle. They remind us more of a Bugatti. Not in that they seem to have 16 cylinders and four turbos, but in that they sound like nothing else we’ve heard. There’s a touch of Subaru burble at idle, but, once underway, the soundtrack morphs into a nondescript cacophony of mechanical menace and furious wind—air rushing into the engine, through the turbo, out the exhaust and the wastegate. These new fours sound like absolute brutes.
_________
... the 2.5-liter S, which enjoys a 25-percent increase in displacement and benefits from a fast-acting variable-geometry turbocharger that only needs to generate 14.5 psi to make maximum twist. As much as any engine swap could, the upgrade to the S changes the car’s character. No, the sound isn’t as stirring as the old six’s, but the experience is far more visceral. What used to be a lithe, graceful thing has transformed into a ferocious animal, lunging forward with an immediacy so foreign to the previous model that each would think the other’s food is weird. In its quickest form—the more powerful S model with the seamless PDK automated gearbox—the Boxster hits 60 mph in just 3.6 seconds. That’s nearly a full second quicker than the old six could manage. And it runs the quarter-mile in 11.9 seconds at 117 mph. It seems like only yesterday that the Chevy Corvette Z06 and the Nissan GT-R democratized 11-second quarter-miles for sub-six-figure cars, and now the Cayman and Boxster join the club. Wimpy Porsches no more.
Indeed, wimpy fours no more. The Volvo S90 and the Porsche 718s grant keen insight into the downsized future. It will not necessarily be better or worse, but it will be different. And if Porsche and Volvo stay the present course, it’ll also be good. In the case of the yardstick Porsches, the newfound urgency means that we expect to see a sharp increase in mid-engined Porsches spinning off racetracks until the learning curve levels off. Supercar acceleration was never what the Boxster and Cayman were about, but this certainly kicks off an interesting new chapter in their history.
_________
Some interesting snippets ...
_________
We can’t say the Porsches are better with the new engines, but they are different and perhaps equally good. That is not surprising. What is surprising is their unflappable ride. Porsche offers wheels ranging from 18 to 20 inches, as well as three suspension setups. But no matter the combination you choose, the 718 shrugs off anything it drives over or through. The S90, on the other hand, comes fitted with 20-inch Pirelli P Zeros that, while endowing this big luxury sedan with surprising grip and braking tenacity, cost it in road noise and impact harshness. If the structure were stiffer, it could’ve coped better with the wheels. We felt all sorts of buzz coming up through the Volvo’s steering column. Astonishingly, of these vehicles, it is the 718 that rides like a luxury car. Not astonishingly, the Porsche duo makes 10Best again and we pass on the flinty Volvo.
_________
The Porsches’ steering, one of the great ambassadors of electrical assist, is even quicker off-center for 2017; it steals the rack from the 911 Turbo. The brakes are firm and progressive, stopping the car with astounding brevity.
_________
With the new turbocharged fours, the 718s blow a different fanfare from their backside bugles, and they sound only a little bit like an old air-cooled Beetle. They remind us more of a Bugatti. Not in that they seem to have 16 cylinders and four turbos, but in that they sound like nothing else we’ve heard. There’s a touch of Subaru burble at idle, but, once underway, the soundtrack morphs into a nondescript cacophony of mechanical menace and furious wind—air rushing into the engine, through the turbo, out the exhaust and the wastegate. These new fours sound like absolute brutes.
_________
... the 2.5-liter S, which enjoys a 25-percent increase in displacement and benefits from a fast-acting variable-geometry turbocharger that only needs to generate 14.5 psi to make maximum twist. As much as any engine swap could, the upgrade to the S changes the car’s character. No, the sound isn’t as stirring as the old six’s, but the experience is far more visceral. What used to be a lithe, graceful thing has transformed into a ferocious animal, lunging forward with an immediacy so foreign to the previous model that each would think the other’s food is weird. In its quickest form—the more powerful S model with the seamless PDK automated gearbox—the Boxster hits 60 mph in just 3.6 seconds. That’s nearly a full second quicker than the old six could manage. And it runs the quarter-mile in 11.9 seconds at 117 mph. It seems like only yesterday that the Chevy Corvette Z06 and the Nissan GT-R democratized 11-second quarter-miles for sub-six-figure cars, and now the Cayman and Boxster join the club. Wimpy Porsches no more.
Indeed, wimpy fours no more. The Volvo S90 and the Porsche 718s grant keen insight into the downsized future. It will not necessarily be better or worse, but it will be different. And if Porsche and Volvo stay the present course, it’ll also be good. In the case of the yardstick Porsches, the newfound urgency means that we expect to see a sharp increase in mid-engined Porsches spinning off racetracks until the learning curve levels off. Supercar acceleration was never what the Boxster and Cayman were about, but this certainly kicks off an interesting new chapter in their history.
_________
Bennachie said:
Can't believe this is still running.............
Why? Most of the threads in PH have been the same for the past 4 years....PDK V Manual etc.At least this is contained in one thread.
Back on topic. 718 Cayman 2.0 T is starting to appeal even more now my tax bill keeps creeping up as I put my 981 through my business!
Edited by FrankCayman on Friday 6th January 19:32
... on almost the same day that PH posts an article of PH 2016 - Disappointments of the year which features, yes, you guessed it, the 718 CS, they also have the 718 CS feature in PH 2016 - Our favourite cars and bikes
It certainly demonstrates the polarisation that the controversial switch to four cylinders brings if the PH staff feature the car in both the Disappointments of the year AND the Favourites of the year.
Anyway, with the positive vibes, this is what Dan had to say in the Favourites piece;
Porsche 718 Cayman S
Let's have it! Flak jacket on but I absolutely love the 718 Boxsters and Caymans. I love the fact they're so controversial and, ultimately, so misunderstood. People, this is a £50K mid-engined sports car with a 350hp engine and available with a six-speed manual driving the rear wheels through a limited-slip diff. It has possibly the best inherent balance, the best chassis, the best steering and the best control weights of any modern sports car. It's as inspiring on the daily grind as it is on a B-road or track. And you're moaning that it sounds dull? Read up on that engine before you climb on your soapbox because this is no hatchback hand-me-down. It's brimming with technical intrigue, packs a huge mid-range punch, sings to the redline and has inertia-free throttle response we've never enjoyed before in a turbo four.
(Dan Trent)
It certainly demonstrates the polarisation that the controversial switch to four cylinders brings if the PH staff feature the car in both the Disappointments of the year AND the Favourites of the year.
Anyway, with the positive vibes, this is what Dan had to say in the Favourites piece;
Porsche 718 Cayman S
Let's have it! Flak jacket on but I absolutely love the 718 Boxsters and Caymans. I love the fact they're so controversial and, ultimately, so misunderstood. People, this is a £50K mid-engined sports car with a 350hp engine and available with a six-speed manual driving the rear wheels through a limited-slip diff. It has possibly the best inherent balance, the best chassis, the best steering and the best control weights of any modern sports car. It's as inspiring on the daily grind as it is on a B-road or track. And you're moaning that it sounds dull? Read up on that engine before you climb on your soapbox because this is no hatchback hand-me-down. It's brimming with technical intrigue, packs a huge mid-range punch, sings to the redline and has inertia-free throttle response we've never enjoyed before in a turbo four.
(Dan Trent)
Edited by Tim bo on Sunday 8th January 08:57
Twinfan said:
Indeed. And the sound always get mentioned as the reason for the haters, but never the throttle response...
That's not true, there are plenty of posts about people not liking the throttle response of the turbo unit.I cannot be bothered to search through to find them, but they are there.
Twinfan said:
Indeed. And the sound always get mentioned as the reason for the haters, but never the throttle response...
While I'm not a "hater" it was the lag not the sound that was the killer for me. I don't like the sound, but it wouldn't be enough to stop me buying one. The lag would. The throttle response at high revs is fine.FrankCayman said:
It's funny, because when I joined PH back in 2006 I'd just bought my first Porsche...a gen 1 987 2.7 Boxster.
All I had back then were a small minority of keyboard warriors dominating these pages with the same stuff about how it wasn't a real Porsche and it was a 'hairdressers' car etc.
Now that very same car is viewed as a drive for purists with true analog controls and the best engine.
I then bought a 987.2 Cayman 2.9......ooooh what an ugly car....
Then a 981 2.7 Cayman.......rubbish steering and brake peddle feel......
There seems to be a pattern forming. Glad I take no notice of some of the rubbish talked about on these pages....I'd never buy any Porsche!!!
Will see how my business is at the end of the year ....if I feel things are pretty much ok, I will be ordering a 718 Cayman 2.0 F4T (!) in Carmine Red.....
Thanks for this! My first ever Porsche starts taking shape in a couple of days and will be with me in March. 718 Cayman GTS 😊All I had back then were a small minority of keyboard warriors dominating these pages with the same stuff about how it wasn't a real Porsche and it was a 'hairdressers' car etc.
Now that very same car is viewed as a drive for purists with true analog controls and the best engine.
I then bought a 987.2 Cayman 2.9......ooooh what an ugly car....
Then a 981 2.7 Cayman.......rubbish steering and brake peddle feel......
There seems to be a pattern forming. Glad I take no notice of some of the rubbish talked about on these pages....I'd never buy any Porsche!!!
Will see how my business is at the end of the year ....if I feel things are pretty much ok, I will be ordering a 718 Cayman 2.0 F4T (!) in Carmine Red.....
I have owned/driven all versions of the Boxter/Cayman and averaged 20k miles per year in all of them.
In my experience, the 718 is the best variant to date.
Sure, the engine is not the most exciting sound, but, it delivers more power and economy and the low down torque is amazing.
As a total package it blows previous incarnations into the grass.
Latest Cayman is six months old and covered 11k miles and is just better than previous versions in every way. ..... Awaits usual comments on engine sounds etc!
In my experience, the 718 is the best variant to date.
Sure, the engine is not the most exciting sound, but, it delivers more power and economy and the low down torque is amazing.
As a total package it blows previous incarnations into the grass.
Latest Cayman is six months old and covered 11k miles and is just better than previous versions in every way. ..... Awaits usual comments on engine sounds etc!
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