15k a year in a cheap Boxster
Discussion
I’m seriously tempted to scratch an itch and given the current values of early Boxsters it seems now could be a good time.
My issue is, I don’t have the space / funds to run two cars - My annual mileage is around 12-15k a year – Am I kidding myself thinking a 15-20 year old Porsche will be able to take a daily commute (mainly motorway) and not let me down? – I’ll be switching form a reliable diesel… so aside from quite a jump in fuel costs and general maintenance – Anything else I should worry about?
I’m aware of the IMS issue, a lot of examples seems to have had a preventive replacement done here – Bore issue worries me, not sure if there is a particular engine to avoid? (Seems to be a lot of conflicting guides on the internet)
I’d love to hear from anyone in a similar position? I see old Boxsters on my commute all the time.. so my thinking is they can’t be that bad.
My issue is, I don’t have the space / funds to run two cars - My annual mileage is around 12-15k a year – Am I kidding myself thinking a 15-20 year old Porsche will be able to take a daily commute (mainly motorway) and not let me down? – I’ll be switching form a reliable diesel… so aside from quite a jump in fuel costs and general maintenance – Anything else I should worry about?
I’m aware of the IMS issue, a lot of examples seems to have had a preventive replacement done here – Bore issue worries me, not sure if there is a particular engine to avoid? (Seems to be a lot of conflicting guides on the internet)
I’d love to hear from anyone in a similar position? I see old Boxsters on my commute all the time.. so my thinking is they can’t be that bad.
I've got my 986 2.7 up for sale (in the classified) , reason I wasn't using it much as I have access to a twingo that uses no fuel at all and I'm doing 13-4K a year ! This week I have been using it lots and thinking I must be mad to sell it , they represent a motoring bargain , I've had it 6 years and it's never let me down, ever!! Used it every day for years, you get the odd mileage related jobs , I've done window regulators, header tank, water pump , coil springs and other bits but nothing terrible! It does about 27mpg with spirited driving ! If no one buys it this week I'm going to keep it , I've been test driving hot hatches and they all drive ok but as soon as I get back in the Porsche I think this is in a different class! Roof down flat six motoring for £3500, what's not to like ?
Thanks all - some positive replies!
Budget wise, I was thinking around £4-6k. Age / engine are not limited, I'll buy on condition, and potentially haggle if no IMS modifications have been done.
Running wise, I was thinking of budgeting £50-100pm for maintenance jobs / servicing - Would that sound reasonable?
Budget wise, I was thinking around £4-6k. Age / engine are not limited, I'll buy on condition, and potentially haggle if no IMS modifications have been done.
Running wise, I was thinking of budgeting £50-100pm for maintenance jobs / servicing - Would that sound reasonable?
Joe.. said:
Thanks all - some positive replies!
Budget wise, I was thinking around £4-6k. Age / engine are not limited, I'll buy on condition, and potentially haggle if no IMS modifications have been done.
Running wise, I was thinking of budgeting £50-100pm for maintenance jobs / servicing - Would that sound reasonable?
You should be OK, I think I was unlucky with mine. Over 11K & 3 years mine was £1.49 per mile. Some of this was improvements such as paint & cosmetics. Budget wise, I was thinking around £4-6k. Age / engine are not limited, I'll buy on condition, and potentially haggle if no IMS modifications have been done.
Running wise, I was thinking of budgeting £50-100pm for maintenance jobs / servicing - Would that sound reasonable?
Joe.. said:
Running wise, I was thinking of budgeting £50-100pm for maintenance jobs / servicing - Would that sound reasonable?
Personally, I would be inclined to be budgeting for closer to £200 per month. 15K miles a year will easily consume a set of tyres and possibly two sets of rears. You need to budget for around £600 a set and that's for middle of the range brands - closer to £1k for top brands. You should also always allow for unforeseen repairs which may on the face of things not seem too bad, but it is a Porsche and if you are not going to be doing your own spanner work, labout costs can quickly mount up. Not an exact comparison, but I ran a 4 year old 996 from 50k to 100k in about 22 months without any major issues. My current (and only) car is a 2008 Cayman 2.7 which I took from 0 to 40k in its first 3 years, and following a change of job has made its way up to 75k in the 5 years since, again without major issues. Both cars were used for commuting, track days, Silver State rallying, and massive road trips of 3000+ miles.
I'd be happy to run a 986 up to high mileage, but I'd want to set aside more like £200pm to build up a slush fund in case of problems.
PS The only time either car stranded me was down to dead batteries. Stock 9x6 and 9x7 batteries seem to be useless. I've taken to installing the biggest battery that will fit in the compartment, on the basis that another few kilos on the nose isn't going to hurt.
I'd be happy to run a 986 up to high mileage, but I'd want to set aside more like £200pm to build up a slush fund in case of problems.
PS The only time either car stranded me was down to dead batteries. Stock 9x6 and 9x7 batteries seem to be useless. I've taken to installing the biggest battery that will fit in the compartment, on the basis that another few kilos on the nose isn't going to hurt.
I think people are scared of doing miles in these cars and I really don't know why. An "old" car from this era can be just as reliable and trustworthy as a brand new car if it is maintained properly and proactively.
I purchased my current 996 quite a while ago with 100K miles on it, at the time it was very cheap as it was during the period when everyone was terrified of IMS failures (not really a thing on dual row IMS cars), it was "high" mileage, it was a 3.4 which many said would lose bits of cylinder liner at any moment and it was resale silver. On the bright side it was a none sunroof C4 and they are pretty rare!
Since then I've done 200K miles in it, in all conditions with very little regard to pampering. Various bits of it are run to a life so it gets a clutch every 100K miles, lower control arms every 50K miles, dampers rebuilt every 30K miles, rads every year (although I have now gone to CSF rads which look like they'll last much longer), coil packs every year etc. etc. It has been serviced on 10K intervals with Mobil 1 and all fluids bar coolant are Porsche standard. It's never had an IMS, the bores are no more scored than most production engines post 100K miles and it uses very little oil per 1000KM. Realistically at 300K miles it's got plenty of life left!
This isn't that unusual either as there are quite a few 996 and Boxster owners in the US that have done way over 250K on original engines and at least one who is over the 400K mile mark now and still going strong. Basically there is a massive amount more chance of it working fine for many 100's of thousands of miles than there is of it failing.
If you want one then buy one, if you need it to be just as reliable as a new car then make sure when you do you are in a position to go over it and replace all the bits that after a decade and a half will want doing to make sure it is bomb proof so that's potentially rads, coils, air/oil seperator, MAF, control arms, top mounts, clutch etc. etc. service the driveshafts and wheel bearings with a decent grease (Kluber if you can get it) and check coolant pipes, brake lines etc. etc. as required. If you don't want to invest that much into it on day one then give it a proper once over to assess and plan in replacements/upgrades as required over a period of time you feel comfortable trusting those components for.
This era of Boxster and 996 are in the sweet spot of the late 90's/early 00's where most electronic systems weren't heavily integrated (there is no CAN on a gen 1 996 manual for example), the cars are relatively simple and don't require a lot of specialist tooling and the quality of the steel and materials in them means they are pretty much all in great shape today. That's a good combination of things if your priority is reliability, especially when compared to some mid 00's German cars which have significant rust problems, some modern diesels with common DPF failures and whole engine failures and generally the change in ethos and manufacturing process which has resulted in modern cars being far less maintainable as they age than slightly older stuff.
The most reliable M96 engines appear to be the early 2.5L Boxster and the early 3.4L 996 variants which had dual row IMS bearings and different piston coatings to the later engines. They don't score any where near as much and the failure rate of the IMS bearing according to the US Class Action docs is significantly less than 1%. If you're aiming for absolute reliability then a 2.5L Boxster would be a good shout and stick the different in cost between than and a larger engined version into the refurb fund
I purchased my current 996 quite a while ago with 100K miles on it, at the time it was very cheap as it was during the period when everyone was terrified of IMS failures (not really a thing on dual row IMS cars), it was "high" mileage, it was a 3.4 which many said would lose bits of cylinder liner at any moment and it was resale silver. On the bright side it was a none sunroof C4 and they are pretty rare!
Since then I've done 200K miles in it, in all conditions with very little regard to pampering. Various bits of it are run to a life so it gets a clutch every 100K miles, lower control arms every 50K miles, dampers rebuilt every 30K miles, rads every year (although I have now gone to CSF rads which look like they'll last much longer), coil packs every year etc. etc. It has been serviced on 10K intervals with Mobil 1 and all fluids bar coolant are Porsche standard. It's never had an IMS, the bores are no more scored than most production engines post 100K miles and it uses very little oil per 1000KM. Realistically at 300K miles it's got plenty of life left!
This isn't that unusual either as there are quite a few 996 and Boxster owners in the US that have done way over 250K on original engines and at least one who is over the 400K mile mark now and still going strong. Basically there is a massive amount more chance of it working fine for many 100's of thousands of miles than there is of it failing.
If you want one then buy one, if you need it to be just as reliable as a new car then make sure when you do you are in a position to go over it and replace all the bits that after a decade and a half will want doing to make sure it is bomb proof so that's potentially rads, coils, air/oil seperator, MAF, control arms, top mounts, clutch etc. etc. service the driveshafts and wheel bearings with a decent grease (Kluber if you can get it) and check coolant pipes, brake lines etc. etc. as required. If you don't want to invest that much into it on day one then give it a proper once over to assess and plan in replacements/upgrades as required over a period of time you feel comfortable trusting those components for.
This era of Boxster and 996 are in the sweet spot of the late 90's/early 00's where most electronic systems weren't heavily integrated (there is no CAN on a gen 1 996 manual for example), the cars are relatively simple and don't require a lot of specialist tooling and the quality of the steel and materials in them means they are pretty much all in great shape today. That's a good combination of things if your priority is reliability, especially when compared to some mid 00's German cars which have significant rust problems, some modern diesels with common DPF failures and whole engine failures and generally the change in ethos and manufacturing process which has resulted in modern cars being far less maintainable as they age than slightly older stuff.
The most reliable M96 engines appear to be the early 2.5L Boxster and the early 3.4L 996 variants which had dual row IMS bearings and different piston coatings to the later engines. They don't score any where near as much and the failure rate of the IMS bearing according to the US Class Action docs is significantly less than 1%. If you're aiming for absolute reliability then a 2.5L Boxster would be a good shout and stick the different in cost between than and a larger engined version into the refurb fund
Edited by poppopbangbang on Sunday 28th August 07:24
I have owned 3 986 Bixster S to date and all were over 10 years old at purchase. I have never been let down by any of them. Averaged between 10k-20k per annum as daily drivers. These cars are more analogue and mechanical than current cars. With less complex gadgets to go wrong as they get older. IMost competent mechanics can work on them. I would happily take mine anywhere ...as long as preventative maintenance is observed (the main one being regular oil and filter changes) there is no reason why the 986 won't absorb huge mileage. They are spectacular value at the moment which helps offset any ongoing costs. I budget £100 a month for mine. I also have the AA mechanical breakdown insurance.
I'd be quite confident my '99 Box 2.7 would do that - the build quality is really quite special, everything comes apart beautifully easily so as long as you keep it maintained as others have said, it'd be arguably no worse (and I'd argue a damn site better) than a 'modern' car.
(Worth adding the 2.7 or 3.2 prior to mid 2000 to the list of potential good motors - ferrous piston coatings and dual row IMS bearings make them a good candidate). Buy on condition and maintenance rather than mileage.
(Worth adding the 2.7 or 3.2 prior to mid 2000 to the list of potential good motors - ferrous piston coatings and dual row IMS bearings make them a good candidate). Buy on condition and maintenance rather than mileage.
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