Help! 981s or 718 or BMW M2!
Discussion
highscore said:
I was in the exact same situation as you. I put a deposit down on an M2 at the beginning of January this year and had a November build slot. In May I started seriously deliberating and test drove all 3 cars (718 base, 981 CS and M2) multiple times over a period of a couple of months.
In July I was also able to drive all 3 cars within 24 hours of each other while they were fresh in my mind. These were my thoughts:
Although my head was telling me the M2 as it was more practical and the test drive was good, it simply didn't feel as special as either of the Porsches. I ruled the M2 out based on my heart. PDK also seemed much better than the M-DCT. I also currently drive an m235i and although the M2 did feel like a step up, it certainly wasn't night and day for normal road driving.
I actually think the 718 sounds good and I recommend driving it rather than watching YouTube vids (although the 981 definitely has the edge). But as this is going to be a daily driver I actually valued the steering feel, torque and modern creature comforts more in the 718. Going round corners in the 718 was unlike any car I've ever driven, including the 981. I also much prefer the exterior and interior looks of the 718.
Ultimately the sound was the only thing I preferred in the 981 and it wasn't enough to outweigh all the other benefits of the 718. I get my Cayman the first week of November and have no regrets about my decision
You really need to drive all 3 and make up your own mind though, horses for courses and all that.
Hope this helps.
Thanks, I think I'm going to do similar, drive all 3 as close together as possible and see what comes out on top. I have driven them all but so far apart its hard to make a judgement.In July I was also able to drive all 3 cars within 24 hours of each other while they were fresh in my mind. These were my thoughts:
Although my head was telling me the M2 as it was more practical and the test drive was good, it simply didn't feel as special as either of the Porsches. I ruled the M2 out based on my heart. PDK also seemed much better than the M-DCT. I also currently drive an m235i and although the M2 did feel like a step up, it certainly wasn't night and day for normal road driving.
I actually think the 718 sounds good and I recommend driving it rather than watching YouTube vids (although the 981 definitely has the edge). But as this is going to be a daily driver I actually valued the steering feel, torque and modern creature comforts more in the 718. Going round corners in the 718 was unlike any car I've ever driven, including the 981. I also much prefer the exterior and interior looks of the 718.
Ultimately the sound was the only thing I preferred in the 981 and it wasn't enough to outweigh all the other benefits of the 718. I get my Cayman the first week of November and have no regrets about my decision
You really need to drive all 3 and make up your own mind though, horses for courses and all that. Hope this helps.
I have been craving that proper sports car feel for ages and I think the M2 is a compromise, albeit a very nice one.
Today was a dream day for me.
First decent trip in the 981 2014, racing yellow......2.7.......manual.
What a car....wonderful sound, you just have to have the 981.
Even the 2.7 has great poise, and pulls well in all the gears,
Even in 6th gear at 70mph, the thing just overtakes with ease.
Knock it down and its an absolute blast.....fabulous sound.......
So if you are looking for a special 981 you will be in heaven?
The beamer will be great for a few weeks and the you will be bored, trust me, I've had a few cars, bin there, done it..... Get the Porsche.
Gadgit
First decent trip in the 981 2014, racing yellow......2.7.......manual.
What a car....wonderful sound, you just have to have the 981.
Even the 2.7 has great poise, and pulls well in all the gears,
Even in 6th gear at 70mph, the thing just overtakes with ease.
Knock it down and its an absolute blast.....fabulous sound.......
So if you are looking for a special 981 you will be in heaven?
The beamer will be great for a few weeks and the you will be bored, trust me, I've had a few cars, bin there, done it..... Get the Porsche.
Gadgit
I`ve turned in my Cayman GTS for a M2, both very fine cars.
The GTS has a better, smoother, more compliant ride (I had the PASM, with PCCB, PTV, 20" CC), the M2 in comparison is more harsh, especially on the back side, more jumpy, not that compliant on bad surfaced roads, the M2 loves smooth tarmac.
The steering on the M2 is absolutely brilliant IMHO, it is fast, direct, initial steering response is far more better than the GTS, I also like the thicker leather steering wheel, the alcantara and IMO too thin GTS wheel did not feel that great in my hands (the alcantara gave me some sweaty and artificial feeling to it, I`ll never want a alcantara steering wheel again.
The M2 of course has a little high seating position compared to the GTS (but not as bad as my previous E82 1M, witch was ridiculous in seating height), seat are comfortable and very supporting, the GTS seeing position is perfect although in my next Cayman I will upgrade to the 18 way electrical seats.
The 6 speed manual on the M2 is the best manual I`ve ever encountered to all my previous BMW`s (E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 1M) It is slick, fast and short throws, the clutch however is the weak point IMO, it has almost no feeling to it, it engages late and high. It als will do rev match for you, witch sometimes I do like and some times it is annoying. The M2 is somewhat short geared, top speed is 7K RPM, it does not feel like a turbo car, power delivery is very linear, it revs free and with ease, but not as free as the GTS.
The GTS had the PDK, and that is just utterly awesome, brilliant and intuitive (I did an extensive test drive on a F82 M4 DCT to compare, the DCT is in NO WAY comparable, lees intuitive, slower in putting gears down, I did not like it at all, that is why I choose the 6 MT on the M2) My next Cayman while have an PDK for sure ( only thing is that it creeps while standing stil, so brakes must be applied, the DCT does not creep)
In short, 2 very fine cars, different characters. I do miss the GTS 6 flat screamer, oh oh that sound, it just gave me the goosebumps with the PSE on, nothin will beat that soon on a tunnel run, damn, just unbelievable, some friends of mine said it sounded as a F1 NA car from the past !
Brakes on both car good, but man I loved the PCCB`s !!
I for sure will buy a 718 Cayman, probably the GTS or the next generation GT4 as it wil have a 6 flat ( I do hope it wil come this time with the PDK, than I`m defenatly sold)
Good luck with you choice!
The GTS has a better, smoother, more compliant ride (I had the PASM, with PCCB, PTV, 20" CC), the M2 in comparison is more harsh, especially on the back side, more jumpy, not that compliant on bad surfaced roads, the M2 loves smooth tarmac.
The steering on the M2 is absolutely brilliant IMHO, it is fast, direct, initial steering response is far more better than the GTS, I also like the thicker leather steering wheel, the alcantara and IMO too thin GTS wheel did not feel that great in my hands (the alcantara gave me some sweaty and artificial feeling to it, I`ll never want a alcantara steering wheel again.
The M2 of course has a little high seating position compared to the GTS (but not as bad as my previous E82 1M, witch was ridiculous in seating height), seat are comfortable and very supporting, the GTS seeing position is perfect although in my next Cayman I will upgrade to the 18 way electrical seats.
The 6 speed manual on the M2 is the best manual I`ve ever encountered to all my previous BMW`s (E46 M3, E92 M3, E82 1M) It is slick, fast and short throws, the clutch however is the weak point IMO, it has almost no feeling to it, it engages late and high. It als will do rev match for you, witch sometimes I do like and some times it is annoying. The M2 is somewhat short geared, top speed is 7K RPM, it does not feel like a turbo car, power delivery is very linear, it revs free and with ease, but not as free as the GTS.
The GTS had the PDK, and that is just utterly awesome, brilliant and intuitive (I did an extensive test drive on a F82 M4 DCT to compare, the DCT is in NO WAY comparable, lees intuitive, slower in putting gears down, I did not like it at all, that is why I choose the 6 MT on the M2) My next Cayman while have an PDK for sure ( only thing is that it creeps while standing stil, so brakes must be applied, the DCT does not creep)
In short, 2 very fine cars, different characters. I do miss the GTS 6 flat screamer, oh oh that sound, it just gave me the goosebumps with the PSE on, nothin will beat that soon on a tunnel run, damn, just unbelievable, some friends of mine said it sounded as a F1 NA car from the past !
Brakes on both car good, but man I loved the PCCB`s !!
I for sure will buy a 718 Cayman, probably the GTS or the next generation GT4 as it wil have a 6 flat ( I do hope it wil come this time with the PDK, than I`m defenatly sold)
Good luck with you choice!
Edited by Romo on Wednesday 21st September 20:39
Edited by Romo on Wednesday 21st September 20:41
Edited by Romo on Wednesday 21st September 20:48
@Romo, interesting that you thought the steering on the M2 is more direct than a Cayman, I drove the M2 fairly recently and I thought the steering was direct and had good feedback but still not quite at Cayman levels, the Cayman definitely benefits from the lower seating position too (as you say). Did you buy your M2 new?
You guys are meant to be helping me!
Could you not have all got together and let me know?!
But in all seriousness, thanks, I think I'm going to drive them all as close together as possible and then decide. I am definitely open to getting the M2 and using it while I source a Cayman, it wont loose much, its not in 1M territory thats for sure but the supply is limited.
You guys are meant to be helping me!
Could you not have all got together and let me know?!
But in all seriousness, thanks, I think I'm going to drive them all as close together as possible and then decide. I am definitely open to getting the M2 and using it while I source a Cayman, it wont loose much, its not in 1M territory thats for sure but the supply is limited.
981UK said:
@Romo, interesting that you thought the steering on the M2 is more direct than a Cayman, I drove the M2 fairly recently and I thought the steering was direct and had good feedback but still not quite at Cayman levels, the Cayman definitely benefits from the lower seating position too (as you say). Did you buy your M2 new?
You guys are meant to be helping me!
Could you not have all got together and let me know?!
But in all seriousness, thanks, I think I'm going to drive them all as close together as possible and then decide. I am definitely open to getting the M2 and using it while I source a Cayman, it wont loose much, its not in 1M territory thats for sure but the supply is limited.
Bought the M2 new.You guys are meant to be helping me!
Could you not have all got together and let me know?!
But in all seriousness, thanks, I think I'm going to drive them all as close together as possible and then decide. I am definitely open to getting the M2 and using it while I source a Cayman, it wont loose much, its not in 1M territory thats for sure but the supply is limited.
The GTS steering rack is not as quick (initial steering response, it also has a lot of caster compared to any BMW, which I do not like) as the M2. Porsche made the 718 steering rack 10% quicker/faster though compared to the 981, well that must have had a reason :-)
I did consider a tenth BMW in 2014 and drove a 2 series then but easily crossed it off the list for poor ride and being so common, sorry, popular nowadays.
The Cayman 718S manual I drove for CAR magazine did have a smidgen of lag but it also lacked the mechanical noises and smoothness of my base 981. Swapping back into mine I was honestly relieved to be driving the more special feeling and sounding car again. If you like 4cyl and turbo go for the 718. If you like N/A and more cylinders go for the 981.
The BMW isn't a special place to be.
The Cayman 718S manual I drove for CAR magazine did have a smidgen of lag but it also lacked the mechanical noises and smoothness of my base 981. Swapping back into mine I was honestly relieved to be driving the more special feeling and sounding car again. If you like 4cyl and turbo go for the 718. If you like N/A and more cylinders go for the 981.
The BMW isn't a special place to be.
DJMC
You are spot on with the 981....... Again.....
Some of the new BMWs are pretty hard riding souls and the ride in the 981 is just great.
The only thing with the 981 is tyre noise which is also a problem on most modern sporty cars with low profiles on some surfaces.
I loved all the beamers I had but they never reached the overwhelming sound of the flat 6.
I suspect because you can't now buy a sparkling shiny brand new one anymore, that some people will not go that way, as the lure of the unveiling of a new car in a showroom from a main dealer would be a great loss in their lives?
Hopefully on this forum that should not happen.
Gadgit
You are spot on with the 981....... Again.....
Some of the new BMWs are pretty hard riding souls and the ride in the 981 is just great.
The only thing with the 981 is tyre noise which is also a problem on most modern sporty cars with low profiles on some surfaces.
I loved all the beamers I had but they never reached the overwhelming sound of the flat 6.
I suspect because you can't now buy a sparkling shiny brand new one anymore, that some people will not go that way, as the lure of the unveiling of a new car in a showroom from a main dealer would be a great loss in their lives?
Hopefully on this forum that should not happen.
Gadgit
gadgit said:
The only thing with the 981 is tyre noise which is also a problem on most modern sporty cars with low profiles on some surfaces.
There's absolutely no tyre noise issue with the Boxster, it's an astoundingly quiet car. There are reports that Cayman is more noisy, presumably because the rear tyres are in the car with you.981UK said:
Cheers for the input guys, I have a order for a M2 that I either need to commit too or I'll let go to whomever is next on the list.
I have driven a M2, its a fun car, very capable, agree with the M235i comparison, I admit the option to keep it for 6 months and let it go at minimal loss does appeal. Allow me to see what happens with 981 values too. But saying all that part of me thinks screw practicality and get a proper sports car!
2016 has been a real pita...
If my budget allowed I would also consider the 718s (to help alleviate the lag) but my even my man maths cant stretch that far, having driven the base 718 its definitely quick but it does suffer, its there and the turbo makes the power delivery...well turbo like.
Aarrggghhh
Goes back to man maths calculator...anybody want to sell me a well specced 981 GTS?!
I know of a Sapphire blue 2014 GTS I think might be for sale privately, well spec'd I believe ??I have driven a M2, its a fun car, very capable, agree with the M235i comparison, I admit the option to keep it for 6 months and let it go at minimal loss does appeal. Allow me to see what happens with 981 values too. But saying all that part of me thinks screw practicality and get a proper sports car!
2016 has been a real pita...
If my budget allowed I would also consider the 718s (to help alleviate the lag) but my even my man maths cant stretch that far, having driven the base 718 its definitely quick but it does suffer, its there and the turbo makes the power delivery...well turbo like.
Aarrggghhh
Goes back to man maths calculator...anybody want to sell me a well specced 981 GTS?!
Could find out more if you're interested, it's up in Aberdeen though.
Ultimately the M2 is based upon a 1 Series, BMW's entry level model. Can't expect the quality of a Porsche as a result.
I can't really offer much of an opinion and i've only driven a 981 S (which is excellent). I saw the 718 at Geneva and personally didn't think it looked as good as the 981. I've seen an M2 in the flesh (that greeny blue colour) and it really stood out, and sounded a bit naughty! However, not such a fan of the 4x4 ride height - a Boxster/Cayman with Sports suspension just looks delicious with the bigger wheels.
I can't really offer much of an opinion and i've only driven a 981 S (which is excellent). I saw the 718 at Geneva and personally didn't think it looked as good as the 981. I've seen an M2 in the flesh (that greeny blue colour) and it really stood out, and sounded a bit naughty! However, not such a fan of the 4x4 ride height - a Boxster/Cayman with Sports suspension just looks delicious with the bigger wheels.
hondansx said:
There's also the pyschology of the M2 being BMW's shining star
Think you should get on to the M3Cutters forum and state that..enjoy your reception hondansx said:
..whereas the 718 is outshadowed by the rest of the Porsche range
Never wanted a 911, always wanted a Cayman....some say (I miss Jezzer) it is the best car Porsche make. So no skulking around in the shadows for me when the 718 arrives.What's interesting is a car that's based on a mundane platform like the M2 is now in serious competition with a purpose designed sports car. Sure it won't have the ultimate chassis dynamics but ultimately it covers an awful lot of bases that to some people will be enough to choose over a 718.
The 981 perhaps didn't suffer to such an extent, it still had a 6 cylinder engine and therefore had one key element to cause people to resist looking elsewhere. A four cylinder engine has devalued the Porsche product (imo) and buyers are asking more questions of it and thus looking at perhaps otherwise unthinkable alternatives.
Doesn't make the 718 crap and those that like it, like it. But it has lost it's default choice status hence the very many debates across the web on it. A late used GTS looks like a cracking buy right now.
The 981 perhaps didn't suffer to such an extent, it still had a 6 cylinder engine and therefore had one key element to cause people to resist looking elsewhere. A four cylinder engine has devalued the Porsche product (imo) and buyers are asking more questions of it and thus looking at perhaps otherwise unthinkable alternatives.
Doesn't make the 718 crap and those that like it, like it. But it has lost it's default choice status hence the very many debates across the web on it. A late used GTS looks like a cracking buy right now.
ooid said:
I just do not find M2 in the same category of cayman to be honest. On paper with numbers probably but the look of the car, design and soul they are on completely different scenes.
Different cars, different feel, but its not as bulky as the M4 / M3, so smaller and more nimble. Also have to consider the practical aspects, a couple of extra seats are definitely useful sometimes.But I agree, the interior isn't great and the ride height and make it a very quick coupe rather than a out and out sports car, but it sounds pretty good (not that I am too worried about the sound in the 718) and its very responsive.
I just do not see it. Not saying bmw m2 is bad or anything, they are not in the same league for me. Maybe now that Z4 is out of the game, journalists trying to put a BMW into comparisons, who knows? Cayman has been around since 2006 and I do not think 718s overshadowed with other porsche models, the current 911's (991) are so big, it's more comfortable and spacious than my temporary studio accommodation in Tokyo to be honest
If anyone personally prefer bmw m2 over cayman, thats completely fine, personal choice. But I just do not see them in the same category.
If anyone personally prefer bmw m2 over cayman, thats completely fine, personal choice. But I just do not see them in the same category.
Edited by ooid on Friday 23 September 13:47
In terms of 981 or 718? I would personally go 981 all the way. Why? The engine has been proven quite reliable so far. We have no idea about 718's reliability. In a few years if it's proven to be good choice, yes I would go for 718 than but currently a big risk to be honest and my worry is purely about the thermal capacity and cooling of mid-engine, flat 4 turbo.
Gassing Station | Boxster/Cayman | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff