Help! 981s or 718 or BMW M2!
Discussion
Obviously you have posted in the Porsche section so expect some bias in your responses, but having driven all 3 I have an M2 on order coming in a similar timeframe (about 9 weeks!).
A lot of this will come down to personal preference and circumstances/use etc. This video I think is a very good, detailed comparision between the GTS and the M2 and also has no 'definitive' answer as they are quite different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmKJERUYJXQ
I had a build slot for one of the very last Cayman GTS cars but gave this up at the very last minute due to ordering issues with my salesman (he no longer works there!) and also personal circumstances (just bought new house). While it was the right decision at the time I do have some regrets passing up a GTS to my spec which would have lost me very little money; it's now very difficult to find one to a spec and colour that floats my boat for a price I'm willing to pay! I do think they will retain very strong money though and no doubt follow similar market values as the 997 GTS.
The 718 is technically excellent - if you are using it as a daily driver then it addresses some of the minor issues of the 981 IMO, e.g. noise from tyres/road/stones in wheel arches, the 'juddering' caused by the geo at full lock, improved media connectivity. The way it flows down the road is just incredible and there's no doubting it's quick!
Rather predictably though, I found the engine in the S lacking character compared to either the M2 or the GTS and when specced up how I would want it for a daily driver it comes out at nearly new GTS money. Really at that point I would rather take the GTS (if I could find the right one for sale!) and I think it would cost a fair bit less in the long run.
There's no getting away from the fact that to spec a 718 to a similar level 'daily driver' spec as the M2 there is about a £15k difference. With the M2 you would have the new updated nav and all the toys and fully optioned even with DCT you will be at around £50k. I found it more exciting to drive than the M4 at a size I thought is perfect for the UK. It may not flow quite as smoothly as the 718 but it just felt more fun, particularly at low speeds.
I think it looks great and as a daily driver the added practicality can't be overlooked. Dealer allocations/availability/finance residuals are all over the place at the moment but I can't see it losing more than the 718 if not quite holding up like a 981 GTS.
Manual seats in the M2 go lower than the electric ones and weigh/cost less if you're likely to be the only driver. If ride height/ultimate handling is a concern there is an M Performance coilover package available. The interior is a bit of a let down - I would have liked better leather, leather dash etc but I will fit the M Performance shift/handbrake trim and steering wheel to help lift it a bit!
Ultimately is comes down to personal preference and usage but as a DD I've gone for the M2; if it was a car for weekends and hooning then I'd go for the 981 GTS if you find the spec you want!
A lot of this will come down to personal preference and circumstances/use etc. This video I think is a very good, detailed comparision between the GTS and the M2 and also has no 'definitive' answer as they are quite different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmKJERUYJXQ
I had a build slot for one of the very last Cayman GTS cars but gave this up at the very last minute due to ordering issues with my salesman (he no longer works there!) and also personal circumstances (just bought new house). While it was the right decision at the time I do have some regrets passing up a GTS to my spec which would have lost me very little money; it's now very difficult to find one to a spec and colour that floats my boat for a price I'm willing to pay! I do think they will retain very strong money though and no doubt follow similar market values as the 997 GTS.
The 718 is technically excellent - if you are using it as a daily driver then it addresses some of the minor issues of the 981 IMO, e.g. noise from tyres/road/stones in wheel arches, the 'juddering' caused by the geo at full lock, improved media connectivity. The way it flows down the road is just incredible and there's no doubting it's quick!
Rather predictably though, I found the engine in the S lacking character compared to either the M2 or the GTS and when specced up how I would want it for a daily driver it comes out at nearly new GTS money. Really at that point I would rather take the GTS (if I could find the right one for sale!) and I think it would cost a fair bit less in the long run.
There's no getting away from the fact that to spec a 718 to a similar level 'daily driver' spec as the M2 there is about a £15k difference. With the M2 you would have the new updated nav and all the toys and fully optioned even with DCT you will be at around £50k. I found it more exciting to drive than the M4 at a size I thought is perfect for the UK. It may not flow quite as smoothly as the 718 but it just felt more fun, particularly at low speeds.
I think it looks great and as a daily driver the added practicality can't be overlooked. Dealer allocations/availability/finance residuals are all over the place at the moment but I can't see it losing more than the 718 if not quite holding up like a 981 GTS.
Manual seats in the M2 go lower than the electric ones and weigh/cost less if you're likely to be the only driver. If ride height/ultimate handling is a concern there is an M Performance coilover package available. The interior is a bit of a let down - I would have liked better leather, leather dash etc but I will fit the M Performance shift/handbrake trim and steering wheel to help lift it a bit!
Ultimately is comes down to personal preference and usage but as a DD I've gone for the M2; if it was a car for weekends and hooning then I'd go for the 981 GTS if you find the spec you want!
ooid said:
In terms of 981 or 718? I would personally go 981 all the way. Why? The engine has been proven quite reliable so far. We have no idea about 718's reliability. In a few years if it's proven to be good choice, yes I would go for 718 than but currently a big risk to be honest and my worry is purely about the thermal capacity and cooling of mid-engine, flat 4 turbo.
Risk with a 3 year warranty?FourPotPorsche said:
ooid said:
In terms of 981 or 718? I would personally go 981 all the way. Why? The engine has been proven quite reliable so far. We have no idea about 718's reliability. In a few years if it's proven to be good choice, yes I would go for 718 than but currently a big risk to be honest and my worry is purely about the thermal capacity and cooling of mid-engine, flat 4 turbo.
Risk with a 3 year warranty?
PhilLL said:
Obviously you have posted in the Porsche section so expect some bias in your responses, but having driven all 3 I have an M2 on order coming in a similar timeframe (about 9 weeks!).
A lot of this will come down to personal preference and circumstances/use etc. This video I think is a very good, detailed comparision between the GTS and the M2 and also has no 'definitive' answer as they are quite different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmKJERUYJXQ
I had a build slot for one of the very last Cayman GTS cars but gave this up at the very last minute due to ordering issues with my salesman (he no longer works there!) and also personal circumstances (just bought new house). While it was the right decision at the time I do have some regrets passing up a GTS to my spec which would have lost me very little money; it's now very difficult to find one to a spec and colour that floats my boat for a price I'm willing to pay! I do think they will retain very strong money though and no doubt follow similar market values as the 997 GTS.
The 718 is technically excellent - if you are using it as a daily driver then it addresses some of the minor issues of the 981 IMO, e.g. noise from tyres/road/stones in wheel arches, the 'juddering' caused by the geo at full lock, improved media connectivity. The way it flows down the road is just incredible and there's no doubting it's quick!
Rather predictably though, I found the engine in the S lacking character compared to either the M2 or the GTS and when specced up how I would want it for a daily driver it comes out at nearly new GTS money. Really at that point I would rather take the GTS (if I could find the right one for sale!) and I think it would cost a fair bit less in the long run.
There's no getting away from the fact that to spec a 718 to a similar level 'daily driver' spec as the M2 there is about a £15k difference. With the M2 you would have the new updated nav and all the toys and fully optioned even with DCT you will be at around £50k. I found it more exciting to drive than the M4 at a size I thought is perfect for the UK. It may not flow quite as smoothly as the 718 but it just felt more fun, particularly at low speeds.
I think it looks great and as a daily driver the added practicality can't be overlooked. Dealer allocations/availability/finance residuals are all over the place at the moment but I can't see it losing more than the 718 if not quite holding up like a 981 GTS.
Manual seats in the M2 go lower than the electric ones and weigh/cost less if you're likely to be the only driver. If ride height/ultimate handling is a concern there is an M Performance coilover package available. The interior is a bit of a let down - I would have liked better leather, leather dash etc but I will fit the M Performance shift/handbrake trim and steering wheel to help lift it a bit!
Ultimately is comes down to personal preference and usage but as a DD I've gone for the M2; if it was a car for weekends and hooning then I'd go for the 981 GTS if you find the spec you want!
Thanks for the post, will check out the vid. Its definitely a nice problem to have!A lot of this will come down to personal preference and circumstances/use etc. This video I think is a very good, detailed comparision between the GTS and the M2 and also has no 'definitive' answer as they are quite different.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HmKJERUYJXQ
I had a build slot for one of the very last Cayman GTS cars but gave this up at the very last minute due to ordering issues with my salesman (he no longer works there!) and also personal circumstances (just bought new house). While it was the right decision at the time I do have some regrets passing up a GTS to my spec which would have lost me very little money; it's now very difficult to find one to a spec and colour that floats my boat for a price I'm willing to pay! I do think they will retain very strong money though and no doubt follow similar market values as the 997 GTS.
The 718 is technically excellent - if you are using it as a daily driver then it addresses some of the minor issues of the 981 IMO, e.g. noise from tyres/road/stones in wheel arches, the 'juddering' caused by the geo at full lock, improved media connectivity. The way it flows down the road is just incredible and there's no doubting it's quick!
Rather predictably though, I found the engine in the S lacking character compared to either the M2 or the GTS and when specced up how I would want it for a daily driver it comes out at nearly new GTS money. Really at that point I would rather take the GTS (if I could find the right one for sale!) and I think it would cost a fair bit less in the long run.
There's no getting away from the fact that to spec a 718 to a similar level 'daily driver' spec as the M2 there is about a £15k difference. With the M2 you would have the new updated nav and all the toys and fully optioned even with DCT you will be at around £50k. I found it more exciting to drive than the M4 at a size I thought is perfect for the UK. It may not flow quite as smoothly as the 718 but it just felt more fun, particularly at low speeds.
I think it looks great and as a daily driver the added practicality can't be overlooked. Dealer allocations/availability/finance residuals are all over the place at the moment but I can't see it losing more than the 718 if not quite holding up like a 981 GTS.
Manual seats in the M2 go lower than the electric ones and weigh/cost less if you're likely to be the only driver. If ride height/ultimate handling is a concern there is an M Performance coilover package available. The interior is a bit of a let down - I would have liked better leather, leather dash etc but I will fit the M Performance shift/handbrake trim and steering wheel to help lift it a bit!
Ultimately is comes down to personal preference and usage but as a DD I've gone for the M2; if it was a car for weekends and hooning then I'd go for the 981 GTS if you find the spec you want!
Agree re residuals, allocations are strange, some places have a slot and others none at all. People are cancelling too, be interesting to see how prices fluctuate over the next 6-12 months. I think constant, if drip fed supply will see them go down but slowly.
I know I posted in a Porsche section but I think all the input has been great, balanced with a real mix of preference.
Must admit I haven't driven the M2, but did have an extended loan of the closely related M135. Great six cylinder engine, but that's about its only advantage over a 718 which is vastly superior everywhere else. As others here have said, 981 feels special, 718 slightly less so but in a different league to what is basically a hotted up 1 series BMW. Interior nothing special, either, BMW have not done enough to differentiate it from the lesser models in the range. For most average daily commuting it wouldn't seem much different to a standard 1 series.
Romo said:
Maybe not - but a good watch. Concluded - as you perhaps might expect that, brakes apart, the Cayman was objectively better. But you don't always like the best - and it seems that in this case that one tester found the Cayman a bit too good - and not as engaging as a result.Romo said:
That's the one that Phill posted earlier - tis really good, I think it provides a good perspective on both, there different cars, I am going to drive them as close together as possible but I think I already know I will prefer the lower more connected feel of the Cayman. Just wish I could find someone selling a well specced GTS privately - the ones at the OPC are well above what my man maths allow.981UK said:
That's the one that Phill posted earlier - tis really good, I think it provides a good perspective on both, there different cars, I am going to drive them as close together as possible but I think I already know I will prefer the lower more connected feel of the Cayman. Just wish I could find someone selling a well specced GTS privately - the ones at the OPC are well above what my man maths allow.
In which case go for an 981S - it won't drive any differently with the same spec - and while you might prefer some little things on a GTS, if you can find the aesthetics of an M2 Ok, surely you can live those of the 981S. The man maths will make a lot more sense.Enjoyable vid and I think presents the "problem" perfectly. For me the comment about needing to go very quickly to feel the buzz with the Cayman rings a bell or two, I had the same feeling with my Gen1 CaymanS and swapped out to 993C2S which was much slower but was much more engaging for everyday driving, that later went to make way for 997's and ultimately a 991S PDK and I was always back in the same place..gotta go quick to get the buzz. So now I've gone for a 981S Manual but a Boxster, no doubt lacks the final finesse of the Cayman chassis but fun at any speed with the roof down. I would go for the GTS regardless of the above comments though, you wont be dissapointed.
huytonman said:
Enjoyable vid and I think presents the "problem" perfectly. For me the comment about needing to go very quickly to feel the buzz with the Cayman rings a bell or two, I had the same feeling with my Gen1 CaymanS and swapped out to 993C2S which was much slower but was much more engaging for everyday driving, that later went to make way for 997's and ultimately a 991S PDK and I was always back in the same place..gotta go quick to get the buzz. So now I've gone for a 981S Manual but a Boxster, no doubt lacks the final finesse of the Cayman chassis but fun at any speed with the roof down. I would go for the GTS regardless of the above comments though, you wont be dissapointed.
You'd have to say that if you felt unable to fully engage with a Cayman on the roads pictured, where would you be able to do so?I'm having a similar dilemma at the moment albeit not considering the M2.
I had originally considered a used 2.7 981c, late last and early this year these could be had with a good spec for 32-35k. Now they are that much for a poverty spec the value IMO in a 981 is the 3.4s.
Having driven a base 718 manual I'm very tempted to go new.
I need to get out and drive a 981s in manual and PDK to make my own mind up but what are the general views of the 981s in manual flavour.
Not wanting to throw another cat amongst the pigeons but with a half decent specced 718 at 50k does this not bring a 991c2 into play...
I had originally considered a used 2.7 981c, late last and early this year these could be had with a good spec for 32-35k. Now they are that much for a poverty spec the value IMO in a 981 is the 3.4s.
Having driven a base 718 manual I'm very tempted to go new.
I need to get out and drive a 981s in manual and PDK to make my own mind up but what are the general views of the 981s in manual flavour.
Not wanting to throw another cat amongst the pigeons but with a half decent specced 718 at 50k does this not bring a 991c2 into play...
7184c said:
I'm having a similar dilemma at the moment albeit not considering the M2.
I had originally considered a used 2.7 981c, late last and early this year these could be had with a good spec for 32-35k. Now they are that much for a poverty spec the value IMO in a 981 is the 3.4s.
Having driven a base 718 manual I'm very tempted to go new.
I need to get out and drive a 981s in manual and PDK to make my own mind up but what are the general views of the 981s in manual flavour.
Not wanting to throw another cat amongst the pigeons but with a half decent specced 718 at 50k does this not bring a 991c2 into play...
Nooooo....no more options!I had originally considered a used 2.7 981c, late last and early this year these could be had with a good spec for 32-35k. Now they are that much for a poverty spec the value IMO in a 981 is the 3.4s.
Having driven a base 718 manual I'm very tempted to go new.
I need to get out and drive a 981s in manual and PDK to make my own mind up but what are the general views of the 981s in manual flavour.
Not wanting to throw another cat amongst the pigeons but with a half decent specced 718 at 50k does this not bring a 991c2 into play...
Just kidding
I have always preferred the Cayman over the 911, just feels more nimble and connected to the road.Not sure if this has been posted elsewhere, but on tuesday Autocar posted up a track battle between the 718 Cayman S and the M2.
The 718 eventually leaves the M2 behind, with a ~2.5 sec quicker lap time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn4_yndVPGk
Not that track times are necessarily high on your list of deciding factors ...
The 718 eventually leaves the M2 behind, with a ~2.5 sec quicker lap time.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hn4_yndVPGk
Not that track times are necessarily high on your list of deciding factors ...
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